ROTC Scholarship Question

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Red_Fox, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Member

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    I have been offered a Technical Type 7 scholarship AFROTC scholarship and I can't seem to find the answer to this question (need to know before I accept the offer):

    If I attend a University A for two-years and get an associates degree, can I go to University B with the same ROTC unit to obtain my bachelors' degree? If so, can I transfer to a different university with a different ROTC unit after my freshman and sophomore years? Will my scholarship be affecting in any other way than me having to pay tuition difference?

    The school I want to attend for the first two years only offers an AS in
    pre-engineering with emphasis in a certain field (electrical engineering in my case). The school I want to transfer to offers a bachelors' in Electrical Engineering and is in the same ROTC unit

    Thanks!
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It has been a long time since I saw the paperwork, but doesn't it say the college must offer a BS degree in your major? If so, than the answer would be NO.

    Secondly, even if you could transfer to another university and det, why on earth would you want to transfer as a 300, esp. if you want rated? You go up for that board after the fall semester. Your CoC would not know you at all. That is a huge chunk of the OML to risk.

    Plus, every college has different requirements, have you already checked to see that every class taken at the 1st college will be accepted and accredited to your major? If not than you are risking it because you will not graduate on time.

    The fact is it still is only an AS, I understand it has an emphasis on EE, but in the end of the day it is an AS, and I can't understand how it is a stronger program than the 4 yr college that offers a BS for EE. You stated it was pre-engineering. The 4 yr college is not pre-engineering, you are going to enter as an EE major as a freshman,; at least for most colleges, so the emphasis will already be on EE, if not the 1st semester, but definitely by your soph. yr.

    Finally, even if you transfer to the college that is the same det. College is more than just academics, it is socialization too. Entering as a jr. if you don't hang out in the det as a 100 or 200, you are not going to have any social circle. Your classes will be filled with students that have known each other since freshman yr. Do they have on campus housing for all 4 yrs? If not, who will you live with off campus? Most of the students and cadets will have their social circle set by this time. They will make their housing plans by March, 5-6 months before you step foot on the campus.

    Cadets that attend x-town dets many times don't think about the socialization aspect when they decide to go x-town, I.E. hanging out in the det between classes, GMC nights, joining military fraternities. They think about the commute for PT and LLAB, but not the socialization. Some xtowns are close enough that they do socialize, but some aren't close enough and they miss out on those moments regarding bonding with the people they will serve side by side with for 4 yrs as an ADAF member.

    The AF is going to train each and every EE major, even if that is their AFSC. You enter with the academic foundation, but you are taught the AF way on how to perform the mission. Yes, some schools will have a stronger EE program than others, thus a stronger academic foundation, but the fact still for me comes down to how a school that only offers an AS in pre-engineering can have a stronger academic program than the one that offers a BS in EE.
     
  3. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Member

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    The university I want to transfer to after sophomore year is 1.5 miles away from the other one, has the same ROTC unit (cross-town universities), almost the same cost and has the same EE program; so social, transportation, and finances won't be a problem. The associates degree just insures that all the credits will transfer properly and as a result, I will be finishing my bachelors' the same time as everyone else.

    Thank you for your opinion. I will try to contact my admissions officer and the ROTC commander.
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    +1 to PIMA. I understand you want to do this, and as you point out some of the "social" issues she raises don't apply since it's the same program. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand why you want to do this and what you think it buys you. If you could expand on that maybe others could provide more insight, but with what we know now I don't see why you wouldn't go straight into the college that offers the BS degree, assuming you applied and were accepted.
     
  5. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I am with kinnem on this and would like to hear more. If you just go to university B there are no transfer credits to worry about. Do you already have a bunch of credits from University A that you are trying to make sure you can use? Please educate us.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am befuddled reading your post.

    has the same EE program
    Okey dokey, so explain to me why you would transfer? Why not go that school in the 1st place.

    You just stated it is the SAME EE program.

    ~~~ In VA we have programs that if you attend a state school, carry a certain cgpa, you have automatic acceptance into another school as a jr.

    Is this the case for you?

    Additionally, have you looked into the paperwork? Is pre-engineering considered a tech major?

    Let's assume it can be done. HOWEVER, pre-engineering may not be deemed tech major, thus this is all moot.

    If you got accepted to the college, but not their engineering program, which happens alot, I would look at it differently.

    I would meet with academic advisers, and ask to schedule out your classes with one tech major as a freshman, that will be accepted when you apply for their engineering school. but at the same time keep you in a tech major for AFROTC scholarship.

    The fact is EE is a very hard curriculum, I would if you were my child do what I just stated. Most engineering colleges will say look to your left, look to your right, 1 of you will not get a degree in engineering.

    You might be great in AP Physics, but you are in HS. Class of 16 HS grads thought the same as you when they applied. Yet, many are no longer EE majors.

    You will also come to understand SFT next yr as a 100. Please look at these threads.

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=31054
    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=31592
    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=31669

    That scholarship is only truly guaranteed for 2 yrs. No SFT = no scholarship.

    I didn't go into the bowels regarding AFSC boards.

    I am not trying to be mean, I am not trying to be rude.

    I am saying every step you make now is like building a home. You are building a foundation of that house as a 100.

    You are risking the foundation to attend a school that offers only an AS, and then transfer over to the college that offers it as a BS.

    Sure, they may accept every credit. Sure you may socialize with them. However, one thing with now a 2012 grad, a 2014 college student, and a 2016 college student; you missed the biggie regarding academics. Transferring you don't know those profs. Some are great and some stink! Those profs don't know you. You will be a number or a name without a face. The others that entered as freshman know the profs in their majors, or at least students opinions when they register in March for Fall. Most colleges have a hierarchy when it comes to registration. You will be at the bottom as at transfer. The highly demanded prof's classes will be closed out to those already in the program at the college.

    I truly think you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

    You don't know what will happen 2 yrs from now regarding admissions/transfers.

    You don't know if in a yr from now EE is not your passion.

    You don't know how college life will impact you.

    Yet, you are planning to change mid-stream if everything works for you.

    I wish and hope the best for you. I will send you my home address so you can send me a crow to eat when I am wrong.

    I mean it. I want the best for you, but 5 yrs here, and seeing the avg commission rate out of AFROTC, I am concerned. I wonder if you get that there are many hurdles to clear, and tunnel vision can hurt you more than you know when college selection is the number 1 deciding factor.
     
  7. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Member

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    Thank you for the reply
     
  8. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Member

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    Pima, you were saying that some potential EEs have changed their major. What happens if I change my major and transfer the University B at the end of freshman year? What penalties will result?
     
  9. MSFaygo

    MSFaygo Member

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    That sounds very similar to the program at School of Mines and Red Rocks CC (although I don't think Red Rocks has the ROTC program). This program was setup to help students work on their GPA at the nearby community college before getting into the very competitive School of Mines. All credits are transferable.
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Were you not accepted to the 4 year college? We're still wondering why you want to jump through these hoops. It makes it difficult to give advice if we don't have the full story.
     
  11. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Member

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    Thanks MSFaygo. This may give more you guys more info: changing from a Computer Science major to an Electrical Engineering major.

    I wasn't accepted into University B, but University A has a BS in Computer Science program that has been approved and that I am interested in.

    Since the majors are closely related, do you think there will be any problems even if I stay in the SAME ROTC detachment and ONLY transfer schools?
     
  12. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

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    Check the AFROTC College List

    The AFROTC website has a list of colleges AND APPROVED MAJORS at those colleges with ROTC programs. Contact the detachment but your answer may be found there.

    I agree with much of what Kinnem, PIMA, and other have said. I'll attest to the "look to your left, look to your right" statement. I heard it and it was true.

    Having earned a degree in EE, I can attest that it is a difficult major - even amongst the various engineering disciplines. It is much more abstract than Mechanical, Civil, Chemical, or other engineering disciplines. It deals with orders of magnitude that go from -12 to +12. The math requirements are harder than most Math Majors encounter (since it infringes on theoretical physics). And yes - many students change their intended engineering discipline while they are in school.

    These are all things you should consider and not take lightly.
     
  13. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

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    This does help however I still echo my earlier statements. Comp Science is not EE, and you would have to take many classes that are outside a Comp Science program.

    From an ROTC standpoint, it may help to remain in the same detachment. A lot would depend on the Battalion Commander. From a scholastic standpoint, though, transferring from a Comp Science program to EE at a school you were not originally accepted into is not a given. Typically engineering transfer requirements require very high GPA's.

    Best wishes with your decision making.
     
  14. HerksRule

    HerksRule Member

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    From the AFROTC website:

    Students are expected to graduate from the college or university where they begin their freshman year. A transfer to another university or college is subject to approval by the losing unit commander. If a transfer is approved, the scholarship will be capped at the tuition rate of the lower cost school regardless of the scholarship type (for example, if you started at a school with tuition of $5000 per year and then transfer to one with tuition at $12,000 per year, the scholarship is capped at $5000 per year).
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    HerksRule,

    Red_Fox is not transferring Dets, just colleges. Thus, he is in a shade of gray. Same det., different college.
     
  16. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    I think Fox has a few issues that we cannot answer here (non-ROTC):

    1) It sounds like Fox has a thing for School B that didn't accept him upfront. I'm not sure why, but in the end the AF doesn't care which of the 2 schools appears on your diploma. I'm not sure why Fox is as concerned.

    2) If it is about the major, while there is a degree of overlap between the 2 majors, you really need to do a chart to show where your decision has to be made between the two majors (hint, if your GPA isn't where it needs to be, that is the cutover point). Given that you are pursuing the EE track first, you need to know what the transfer requirements are for School B beyond the AA degree. Back in the day, it was even harder to get in to Engineering School as a transfer than as a freshman. Fox should find out how well worn the path is for the transfer before he takes step 1. I strongly suggest talking to an adviser at BOTH schools to see how this plays out.

    3) Just because the 2 schools are in the same Battalion and the money is about the same doesn't mean the PMS will allow it. For example, if PT is conducted at each campus and the Juniors are responsible for leading it, they want to know that there are enough Juniors at each campus to lead it. If your class year is thin at School A, the unit may not want you to change schools. You definitely have a conversation the PMS about your intent now and continue to carry on that conversation as your progress.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    My bad....1000 lashes with a wet LoMein noodle.

    I don't know why my eyes and brain didn't connect.

    HerksRule showed the rule. Where you go as freshman is where they expect you to graduate from.
     
  18. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I assume this means you've chosen not to accept your USAFA Appointment?
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    You've got to be kidding me. Hopefully he is only sorting through his options... yet somehow I don't think so. Why jump through these hoops for AFROTC when you already have an appointment to the Academy? Perhaps he confused a nomination with an appointment?
     
  20. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Not sure if he was confused or actually has an appointment.
     

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