Sad news Part 2

Comparing stress levels as cadets/mids vs. AD isn't the best way to think of it. An 18-19 y/o is much more susceptible to the stress than a 23-24 y/o typically for many reasons. Cadets are by and large fresh to being out of their home, away from family for the first time, and put into a pressure cooker. If we look at junior enlisted at the same age, we see high suicide rates there as well. I look at my maturity level as a 4 degree and a 3 degree and it was very different from when I was a 2 dig and firstie, which is a far cry from where I am now. This time period is a period of major and quick growth in level of maturity and personality. Not everyone is equipped to handle that very well.

I also see this as an extension of a problem I perceive in the services. Much focus is put on "families." Often the "single" (RE: unmarried) soldier/airman/etc. is given the crappy shift or assignment because, well, they have no one waiting for them so let's give the good stuff to the married guys because they need time with family. Go read the psych literature and you will find this is a big NO NO. Among my peers and friends, and minimally in my own command chain, once a commander finds out you don't have a family (and often it doesn't even matter if you are in a long-term relationship, it doesn't count unless you are married), they stop taking an interest. This has been a common story among my peers in USAF/USN/USA/USCG. We have built an organization that somehow has taken the false position that the married members are the ones needing the most support and this is further from the truth. I worked on at risk populations on some RAND projects. By and large, the single young men were the groups experiencing the most issues with mental health, outliers in the data in fact.

I bring this up because the people we send to our academies as AOCs, AMTs, and other permanent party are a part of this organizational culture we've bred. They value the same message. Until some of the military organizations start reallocating their time and resources to watch out for the young, "single" populations, we are going to continue seeing mental health events rearing their ugly head. The services need to invest their time and effort into recognizing that the single guys/gals need just as much, if not more, support than their married counterparts.
 
Comparing stress levels as cadets/mids vs. AD isn't the best way to think of it. An 18-19 y/o is much more susceptible to the stress than a 23-24 y/o typically for many reasons. Cadets are by and large fresh to being out of their home, away from family for the first time, and put into a pressure cooker. If we look at junior enlisted at the same age, we see high suicide rates there as well. I look at my maturity level as a 4 degree and a 3 degree and it was very different from when I was a 2 dig and firstie, which is a far cry from where I am now. This time period is a period of major and quick growth in level of maturity and personality. Not everyone is equipped to handle that very well.

I also see this as an extension of a problem I perceive in the services. Much focus is put on "families." Often the "single" (RE: unmarried) soldier/airman/etc. is given the crappy shift or assignment because, well, they have no one waiting for them so let's give the good stuff to the married guys because they need time with family. Go read the psych literature and you will find this is a big NO NO. Among my peers and friends, and minimally in my own command chain, once a commander finds out you don't have a family (and often it doesn't even matter if you are in a long-term relationship, it doesn't count unless you are married), they stop taking an interest. This has been a common story among my peers in USAF/USN/USA/USCG. We have built an organization that somehow has taken the false position that the married members are the ones needing the most support and this is further from the truth. I worked on at risk populations on some RAND projects. By and large, the single young men were the groups experiencing the most issues with mental health, outliers in the data in fact.

I bring this up because the people we send to our academies as AOCs, AMTs, and other permanent party are a part of this organizational culture we've bred. They value the same message. Until some of the military organizations start reallocating their time and resources to watch out for the young, "single" populations, we are going to continue seeing mental health events rearing their ugly head. The services need to invest their time and effort into recognizing that the single guys/gals need just as much, if not more, support than their married counterparts.

100% agree with that entire post.

I would guess it affects cadets/midshipmen to a lesser degree, because they at least have fairly regular contact with many other folks. Maybe not family, but at least friends. Once they leave, they may find themselves living alone. Now, if they can find an social outlet, it's one thing, but if they are away for extended periods of time, only to return to an empty house in a community where they have no friends, it can be very tough.
 
As a mom of an almost applicant, I am still learning the role of the family sponsor...do they go through any type of training, such as suicide awareness and prevention?
 
As a mom of an almost applicant, I am still learning the role of the family sponsor...do they go through any type of training, such as suicide awareness and prevention?

There is typically no training for sponsor families, just screening to make sure they are an appropriate match (no interviews).
 
For Jim's friends and family, you are in my prayers and thoughts. I know he is very much missed and made an impact with his kindness to all who knew him.

For prospective Cadets and parents, do not let this thread scare you - as stress and challenges occur in all walks of life and not just SAs. However, suicide is a difficult topic to understand and the least we can do in recognition of those we have lost is to have honest discussion and assessment of ways big and small that may save a life.

Realize that no one is immune. With the right combination of stressors over time, life events, health concerns - any of us can find ourselves in a mental tunnel in which thinking gets twisted and help is hard to see.
Put this phone number in your cell phone 1 800 273 TALK (8255) - this is the lifeline number 24/7 where someone can help you see out of the tunnel or help you assist someone in crisis. You can do this right now.

Next, if you want to be a leader in the military today, it's not enough to see lists of warning signs in online training, you need to learn and practice the skills of how to recognize stress in your people and wingmen and intervene sincerely and effectively. We don't need a billion dollar study, the AF has done good research over the years, but the lessons must be practiced just like you would CPR - especially at SAs where future leaders are learning. These leaders face new pressures with an all volunteer force, asymmetric foes, technology overload, and downsizing that leaves little chance to make mistakes and learn from them (which was a common opportunity in previous decades). Today's leaders must understand how to correct errors without crushing, how to build strength and resilience without breaking, and how to open doors to other positive pathways when the current situation (school, deployment, service, etc.) is not viable or healthy for the person. Every tragedy may not be averted but each life saved makes a huge difference.

Tell someone they are a slimy slug or aren't doing the exercise right, etc. but DO NOT tell anyone they are worthless. DO NOT tell anyone they are a burden. No one is worthless. Everyone, in or out of the Academy, has worth and important contributions to make. As leaders, ban these ideas from your vocabulary and put something constructive in your leadership toolkit. Some resources are available at the www page af.mil/suicideprevention.asp along with additional links.

Thanks to those who troubled to read this long post. I have spent some years working on this issue and as difficult as it is, you really can make a difference.
 
There is typically no training for sponsor families, just screening to make sure they are an appropriate match (no interviews).

Our cadet's sponsor family (we know them well) did have to go through a half day type of orientation - and I think they said it did include a discussion of this and other similar things. But I'm going off recollection from a brief discussion. I know they did have to do the orientation though.

I will say it again for the new appointees and their families - cadet sponsor families are absolute gifts to these cadets when it is a good match. For our c4c, her cadet sponsor family is a connection to some sense of normalcy in a frenetic first year. Seek out connections and people you might know in the area who would be good for your cadet and make the request.
 
Our cadet's sponsor family (we know them well) did have to go through a half day type of orientation - and I think they said it did include a discussion of this and other similar things. But I'm going off recollection from a brief discussion. I know they did have to do the orientation though.

I will say it again for the new appointees and their families - cadet sponsor families are absolute gifts to these cadets when it is a good match. For our c4c, her cadet sponsor family is a connection to some sense of normalcy in a frenetic first year. Seek out connections and people you might know in the area who would be good for your cadet and make the request.

Hum, good to know. I know my sponsor did not have an orientation so far as I recall. I'll defer to more recent experience!
 
I think we're dancing around each others points. I understand what your saying, and I agree with it. What I'm saying is, some of this stress is needed
Agreed! In my initial post in this thread, I made mention of this. IMHO, working under intense pressure and succeeding is what makes the AFA a much better accomplishment than graduating from Stanford or Harvard. If you succeed with fantastic grades, graduate schools and future employers realize the difficulty. More importantly, you have been given the tools to kick butt and handle anything that comes your way.

What I'm saying is, some of this stress is needed because when he graduates, he can't just "drop boxing or change majors", he'll have stress he must sustain.
From talking with other Cadets in different academies (our HS has a lot of SA students), there is a certain amount of group think that takes on the "2.0 Good To Go". You may also hear something like: "what do you call the last person in the class? Answer: An officer.".

That's the same approach as dropping a sport or changing a majors. It's quitting effort to stay afloat. If a student adopts a "2.0 Good To Go", why are the taxpayers spending $400K on them?:confused: I diverge.... I know policies have been put in place so that studying can still be the focus. I commend those efforts. Others consider that weakening or dummy down the program.

Pulling off a high GPA in a technical degree (which is normally the goal of students) is intensely stressful at a SA. If a SA student places that expectations on themselves they will be stressed a whole lot more than a Cadet adopting a "2.0 Good To Go" approach. If they take advantage of other amazing opportunities and still maintain a high GPA, the stress level goes up exponentially. When an AFA student has that level of commitment to give 100%, it can be extremely wearing.

I do keep tabs on my DS as we text occasionally and we talk once a month when he has a break. So far so good. :) We have had to encourage him a few times to stay strong and he has bounced back. We have also visited CS to take him off campus for a much needed break. I understand his stress level will go down a lot after recognition.

Back to stress in the workplace. In the military as an Officer, I predict a "2.0 Good To Go" can also be implemented. Obviously you were passionate (hence you were exponentially more stressed working than going to school). But nothing says another Officer cannot give a "2.0 Good To Go" attitude even when lives are at stake. I predict a Cadet that gives it their all will also give 100% as an Officer. Therefore the workforce stress certainly can be intense.

I do appreciate your perspective. :)
 
Last edited:
USAFA Support?

The cadet our daughter spoke to, also is happy there. She did say that the vast majority of her emotional support and social support comes via her sports team (she is a recruited athlete). She has found it odd that, aside from football games, people often disappear on weekends. Her friend at the USNA is having the opposite experience, finding that in spite of the rules and regulations folks stick around and stay on the grounds or go into town together. The USAFA cadet said that, particularly with the older cadets, the drive is to leave on weekends...as much and as often as you can. She is VERY grateful that she has her sports team for friendships, support and fun.
Her biggest issue with the sad news we speak of on this thread is the fact that it is not directly talked about.
Wondering if other new cadets find the above to be accurate.
S
 
The cadet our daughter spoke to, also is happy there. She did say that the vast majority of her emotional support and social support comes via her sports team (she is a recruited athlete). She has found it odd that, aside from football games, people often disappear on weekends. Her friend at the USNA is having the opposite experience, finding that in spite of the rules and regulations folks stick around and stay on the grounds or go into town together. The USAFA cadet said that, particularly with the older cadets, the drive is to leave on weekends...as much and as often as you can. She is VERY grateful that she has her sports team for friendships, support and fun.
Her biggest issue with the sad news we speak of on this thread is the fact that it is not directly talked about.
Wondering if other new cadets find the above to be accurate.
S
I can't really offer a comparison since I have not visited USNA and am not familiar with its proximity to "normal" things like shopping, or Starbucks, nor do I know what USNA offers in terms of sponsor families. I do know that my daughter likes to leave to do normal kinds of things -- go to Walmart, get a coffee, eat a burger -- and when at USAFA you can't just walk a bit to do those things. As a C4C, it usually takes some planning/organizing to borrow a car and whatnot, so i get the sense that they try to maximize those opportunities when they are able to organize. Arnold Hall offerings get old, and hanging out in your dorm room as well. And the cadets have unlimited sponsor passes, so spending Sundays at a family's house, doing your laundry the way you like it done (clean!), watching some TV and eating a homecooked meal is a blessing. This is not an effort to get away from other cadets; she uses the time to bond with her "sponsor brothers" and they have fun together. So the implication that cadets aren't close, or that USAFA is some prison they are trying to escape, may be erroneous. My daughter loves it, and the balance she gets by getting away periodically keeps her fresh and positive.
 
I agree that the cadets tend to leave on the weekends they are granted liberty. My son brings anywhere from 3 to 8 friends to our house just about every weekend that is not in ski season. You also have to remember, there is not a lot to do at the Academy, you can't walk anywhere. Annapolis is close to Washington, Baltimore, it has a town right outside the gate. The cadets at USAFA have nothing outside their gate. Godfather's Pizza and Subway probably gets a little old after a while (the offerings at Arnold Hall).
I dod know that he considers the friends he has made at USAFA as most likely to be his friends for life.
 
There are a surprising number of things to do at USAFA on the weekends, but you need to seek them out. A lot of cadets just don't look at all the clubs and groups available to them.
I will agree that the upper classes tend to essentially evacuate campus on the weekends. Sitting CQ on Saturday evening showcased that!
 
USAFA excels in many areas and I have great pride in my institution. However, tackling the realm of mental health is a weak point and one often poorly adressed. The challenges of academy life and resultant pressure to succeed create situations that stress the resiliency of any individual, even America's 'best and brightest'.

In my experience Ms. Fletcher's reasons are spot on. This is a much more widespread issue than the academy has recognized...and it's not just cadets on the verge of disenrollment. Four cadets have chosen to end their lives during the 2.5 years that I've been a cadet, and many of us are tired of the consistent 'sweep it under the table' reaction from leadership. I don't have a solution, but perhaps one begins with recognition of the full scale of the problem.

USAFA excels in many areas and I have great pride in my institution. However, tackling the realm of mental health is a weak point and one often poorly adressed. The challenges of academy life and resultant pressure to succeed create situations that stress the resiliency of any individual, even America's 'best and brightest'.

In my experience Ms. Fletcher's reasons are spot on. This is a much more widespread issue than the academy has recognized...and it's not just cadets on the verge of disenrollment. Four cadets have chosen to end their lives during the 2.5 years that I've been a cadet, and many of us are tired of the consistent 'sweep it under the table' reaction from leadership. I don't have a solution, but perhaps one begins with recognition of the full scale of the problem.

I have been away and not following this thread, but now back and caught up. I will do as instructed and won't direct displeasure toward any individuals so biting tongue :eek: but want to say wholeheartedly that I agree with what Falcongirl and Anne Fletcher so eloquently stated here. I served in the USAF with Falcongirl's mom, and know Anne as one of the first women to graduate usafa back in 1980. I graduated in 82. I'm also the mother of a usafa cadet and one former usafa cadet. I agree hugely with what both of these ladies have said here on this forum and elsewhere. This whole situation saddens me, seeing the cadets i know dealing with it. Some things are indeed "broken" at my beloved USAFA, and I'm not really sure how to fix them, but I am and will continue to give it much thought. I do believe that not squelching talk about it can only help. Let's not go silent, even when tempers flare.
 
I read all of the forum to the point of where it was at the time, I make a habit of it, my computer only showed me that there was a couple of posts, I didn't see the rest, I take full responsibility, and as I have written several times, I take responsibility if my actions have come accross immature. Once it was brought to my attention how it looked, I have done everything in my power to fix things, apologize to the moderators, and have apologized on the threads I started.
 
I read all of the forum to the point of where it was at the time, I make a habit of it, my computer only showed me that there was a couple of posts, I didn't see the rest, I take full responsibility, and as I have written several times, I take responsibility if my actions have come accross immature. Once it was brought to my attention how it looked, I have done everything in my power to fix things, apologize to the moderators, and have apologized on the threads I started.

You are not immature, you can ask anything you want. That is what these forums are about. I have been on this forum for 4 or 5 years, just about every question has been asked in some thread or threads over the years. If you want to know anything about USAFA and are intimidated to ask just PM me, and I will answer it if I can. If I can't I will be glad to ask my son who is a C2C there.
 
Obviously this is a very sad event and I certainly join everyone else in praying for the cadet and his family. Two unexplained deaths in less than 6 months is a little weird. I don't think it is unreasonable for prospective cadets or their families to be curious. Maybe current cadets know what happened but outsiders have no way of knowing unless there is some type of public statement.
 
You are not immature, you can ask anything you want. That is what these forums are about. I have been on this forum for 4 or 5 years, just about every question has been asked in some thread or threads over the years. If you want to know anything about USAFA and are intimidated to ask just PM me, and I will answer it if I can. If I can't I will be glad to ask my son who is a C2C there.
Thanks so much, I appreciate it. I will.
 
Back
Top