Scholarship to SMC's

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by wisbang35, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    I have been a member for nearly four years, but have only been gaining knowledge and enjoying the threads for all this time. When I found these forums, my son was 12, now is 16 and becoming more serious about a career in the military.

    My question is about ROTC Scholarships. I have researched this topic here, GOARMY.com and the University of North Georgia website, but would like some help tying the three into a more specific question/answer.

    It appears that to get an AROTC scholarship to a regular university, DS would need to apply and rank the tops schools he would like to attend but he doesn't get to determine the school he attends with the scholarship.

    The UNG website states to apply to the school and then apply for the scholarship, putting down UNG as his first choice and then list 2nd, 3rd choice, etc. But what if he really only wants to attend UNG, doesn't really want to attend any other school for ROTC, just because that was where the scholarship was awarded?

    Another thing I should point out is that UNG's tuition, (all Cadets receive In-State tuition), is approximately $19,000 this year. This is affordable to our family, so the scholarship is not the determining factor as to whether DS can attend UNG. I have seen other posts discussing that schools with lower tuition are often chosen by Cadet Command (I think that's what it's called) over higher tuition schools for the scholarships.

    I really haven't asked much of a question here, so let me try to tie this into one. My son (at this moment, he's only a sophomore) only wants to attend UNG. He puts down UNG on the application as his number one choice, does he HAVE to list 2nd, 3rd choice, etc? And then assuming he is attending UNG but doesn't get a scholarship (or in fact, turns it down because it wasn't to UNG) the first year, he can reapply the second year, and if selected for the scholarship can stay at UNG because he is already enrolled/attending that school, doesn't have to change schools (to 2nd or 3rd choice?)

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. philmont

    philmont Member

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    One does have to list and rank schools on the AROTC scholarship application. If he is awarded a scholarship but not to UNG-his first choice, he can try to transfer the scholarship to UNG (but there is no guarantee that it will transfer) or he can decline the offer. If he decides to attend UNG without ROTC scholarship, he can apply for a campus based scholarship once at UNG. Good luck!
     
  3. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    Ok, thanks, that's helpful. I have seen other info on trying to transfer the scholarship, and that is where the lower cost of tuition sometimes comes into play. I didn't realize that applying in subsequent years becomes a campus based scholarship, but that makes sense that it is sure to be at UNG then.
    Thanks again!
     
  4. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    Pretty cool that your son is so focused on UNG. Has he been to NLC yet? He should definitely go. He should also check out some other schools in person over the next year and a half, as those #2 and #3 choices might not end up being so bad, and everyone should always have a Plan B and Plan C in case Plan A falls through for some reason.

    DS is a freshman there. Let me know if you need help with anything. A call in to Cadet Admissions would probably result in all of your scholarship questions being answered.

    How's your DS's resume looking? GPA? Honors classes? Athletics? Leadership? Is he choosing UNG because he hopes to earn a commission in the Army?
     
  5. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    Thanks Pay It Forward. Yes, he definitely want to commission. He is planning to attend Leadership Weekend in the fall. I was talking to someone in Cadet Admissions at UNG via email the other day, and he advised that my son could potentially play Varsity Soccer there, provided he made the team, of course. That is another factor, although not as important.

    As for choosing UNG specifically, he wants the more military way of life, opposed to ROTC. The majors at USMA are just not appealing to him, so we began to look at SMC's. Likes the idea that it is warm in Georgia (we are in Ohio) and loves the proximity to the mountains. I believe the exceptional post I printed a couple days ago for him to read regarding UNG must have been from you! That was some excellent information, my husband actually took the time to read it too! My son also would like to be a Ranger!

    DS is an Honors Student, already a 2 year varsity letter winner as a sophomore in soccer, will complete his Eagle Scout project in a month or so. Working towards acceptance into National Honor Society next year. Did really well on his PLAN (practice ACT) and is being bombarded daily by colleges wanting him to come to their school.

    I personally like the idea of the lower tuition as well as the possibility of joining the Georgia National Guard for further training and pay. While being so far away would be difficult for me to watch his soccer games, it is exactly what he is looking for.
     
  6. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Unless they change the rules for the application process by the time your DS is ready to apply, I believe he will be required to list at least one in-state school.
     
  7. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    That makes sense too!

    Thanks everyone, for everything you can share!
     
  8. soccmomer

    soccmomer Member

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    A lot of our kiddos were awarded AROTC scholarships to their top 3 choices this year. My DS had as his 1st choice an OOS private SMC (Norwich) - offered and accepted (and will be on the soccer team), he was also offered a scholarship to an in state public and an in state private. However, the SMC was the most expensive, so if his stats are good (which it sounds like they are), then a scholarship to UNG is very possible.
    As a side note - have your DS e-mail the soccer coach at UNG with a little information about himself. NCAA rules prohibit some types of contact at his age, but I believe you can initiate e-mails and also keep the coach updated on his accomplishments over the next 2 years. Good luck!
     
  9. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    Thanks Soccmommer! I am aware of the NCAA regs about speaking with coaches, as I have researched soccer scholarships/schools/regulations just as much as I have the military! As long as DS initiates the contact, the coach can talk to him. In June of junior year, coaches can begin to contact him.

    We are planning to visit UNG a couple of days before Leadership weekend in the fall, to do the tour and try to meet with the coach. DS also belongs to a soccer recruiting website, so he will email the coach with his profile (which includes video) before we attend, hopefully to generate some interest!
     
  10. soccmomer

    soccmomer Member

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    That is great! I found keeping up with the soccer contacts extremely stressful! We were a bit late to the game - didn't start anything until his Jr year, and he didn't belong to any of the high level clubs so it was a bit more difficult. We travelled a LOT the summer before his sr year - visiting colleges and going to summer soccer camps and clinics on college campuses that he was interested in.
    Ultimately(although still waiting to hear from USMA - where he cannot play soccer), he ended up with what he wanted: an SMC, a 4 yr AROTC scholarship, and the icing on the cake- the offer to play soccer. And we are in the same position - a long long way to go watch games (although they do live stream them!).
     
  11. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    We just went to 5 College ID camps this past winter as well. We have club teams within an hours drive, but my son has never played. My husband and I both work second shift jobs, so couldn't provide the transportation. Now that DS is able to drive, he doesn't want to do so by himself. That will hurt his college recruiting, but I will not force him.

    I'm glad I finally started posting on these forums. You guys are great! I have been observing silently for years, but am now to the point where I can ask questions and contribute. I think an SMC, especially UNG, is the perfect solution to what my son wants from a college, and to ultimately become an Army Officer! Next November can't get here quickly enough for us to visit and DS to attend Leadership Weekend! Maybe we'll just have to take a summer trip!
     
  12. soccmomer

    soccmomer Member

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    Good luck to your son wisbang. So glad we are done with the process! We live in a rural area and also did not play Club - more due to the cost and not really knowing about it. He did however get involved with ODP and was selected for our state team. He had offers to play from D3 schools, but those are the ones we pursued the most aggressively, although he did remain in contact updating 2 D1 schools (and they also kept in contact with him).
     
  13. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    You're welcome! DS is very happy at UNG.

    I think it would be extremely helpful for your son to find a cadet/athlete at UNG to talk to because I will warn that it can be a time-management challenge to be a varsity athlete and a cadet participating in a military specialty group. Know that varsity athletes are grouped together in one company, and they don't PT with everybody else or have the same company camaraderie that non-varsity athletes have. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as DS would say, "It's his choice," and it's nice that cadet/athletes have that choice -- it's just that to play soccer AND be in Aggressors or Mountain or Rifle squad -- that would be extremely tough.

    Ask your Cadet Admissions contact if he can put you in touch with a cadet who is a varsity athlete and also participates in a military specialty group.

    Likewise, I would ask if he can put you in touch with a cadet/athlete who is in National Guard. Can a cadet do both? With training schedules for varsity athletes being so demanding, and game schedules too, it can be quite a challenge to coordinate it all. How do cadet/athletes manage monthly drill if they're in National Guard? I'm not saying it can't be done -- just that it's more of a challenge, and something to think about. When you contact the coach, ask what percentage on the current team are cadets. Ask if any of those cadets belong to a military specialty group. Ask if any of them are in National Guard. Ask if they can put you in touch with a cadet/athlete who also is in Guard and/or a specialty group.

    While *I* believe cadet/athletes work EXTREMELY hard to train for their sport, I think it can be difficult for non-varsity athlete cadets to appreciate that hard work when they're not really seeing them at PT on a regular basis. Also, athletes get more "sleep-ins" because of being at away games and not getting back to barracks till very late. But many of the non-athlete cadets just see "sleep-in" and don't really take into account the fact that the athlete spent 4 hours in training/6 hours in school/3 hours at a game/4 hours on a bus, didn't get home till midnight and still has a paper to write.

    One more food for thought for today -- cadets on ROTC scholarship have more strict PT and grade requirements in order to keep the scholarships.

    All of this is just a realistic look at cadet life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a cadet/athlete -- we LOVE our sports teams, and when cadets are on the team, we cheer even louder, it's just that your son should be realistic about what can be accomplished in his "spare time" outside classes and general ROTC duties. Talk to people who are actually living that life. I think it will help your son think about what he really wants to excel in. Is it soccer? Is it mountain/aggressor/rifle training? Is it getting military experience in National Guard? Is he ready to accept the extreme challenge of trying to be a varsity athlete AND participate in a specialty group or National Guard?

    These are all questions that don't really need to be answered now, obviously -- there's plenty of time for research!
     
  14. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    You are awesome Pay It Forward! I had thought about each of those things, classes/homework/sports/pt and NG separately, but putting them all together is certainly a lot!

    We will have plenty of discussions in the next year or so!

    Thanks again!
     
  15. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    I talked to DS a little about your DS's situation, and he suggested, and I stress "suggested," that he humbly thinks that 4 years varsity soccer might be better on a resume over a military specialty group or even National Guard if the ultimate goal is active duty, especially if the goal is infantry or combat arms. Soccer combined with some other leadership roles (like in a fraternity or other campus organization like Habitat for Humanity or SGA) would probably boost your DS's standing on the OML far more than participation in (and leadership roles) in a military specialty. The Army will teach him the Ranger and mountain skills. Not that there's any problem with military specialty groups -- it's just that if a cadet has a choice, choose the varsity sport over everything else. That's his take on it. So keep pursuing the soccer route -- if your DS makes the team, that's awesome!
     
  16. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Cadet Command loves to publish stories about cadets who are successful varsity athletes, as do individual battalions. However, for OML calculations, it may be that no more credit is given for participation in varsity athletics than for intramural and community teams. You may want to verify this with battalion cadre.
     
  17. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    Thanks again payitforward! Always great information/advice. EDelahanty, I don't know what OML is. Can you help me out. I believe there is a post about the acronyms somewhere, but I don't remember where/how to find it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  18. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    OML is the Order of Merit List which ranks all rising MS4 AROTC cadets on a nationwide basis. It has a significant bearing on whether a cadet gets active duty (though less so for SMC cadets) and on choice of branch. In summary it consists of a weighted average measuring overall performance during a cadet's first three years in areas including:

    grade point average,
    performance on physical fitness tests (during the MS3 year and at LDAC, as well as involvement in extracurricular sports such as varsity and intramurals),
    evaluation by the battalion PMS (including non athletic extracurriculars),
    performance at LDAC

    Here's a link to one thread on the FY 2014 OML model. There are other SAF threads which also discuss the OML.

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=30521

    The above refers to the national OML. Within each AROTC battalion there is an internal OML which is used to rank cadets in each class in order to determine such things as summer training assignments.
     
  19. wisbang35

    wisbang35 wisbang35

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    Thank you Ed! Very useful information!
     

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