Scholastically Qualified

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by cga82, Jan 30, 2007.

  1. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    A couple of weeks ago my son got a "Scholastically Qualified" ltr in the mail. He also received a nomination from his MOC. USNA states that approx. 2000 "SQed" and 1500 offered and 1250 make up a class.

    1. He is competing with the other 10 names submitted by the MOC. If someone else wins the 1 spot out of the 10, is he put in the pool of with all candidates that are nominated?
    2. Are the LOA's considered in this # of 2000 "SQed"?
    3. What is the final due date for all applications?
    4. How does the board work? What type of piles do they sort thru? Does it start by states?MOC's? Senator's?.......
    5. Do they release the Appointees all at one time or as a pile is completed?
    6. Can some of the "SQed" be offered NAPS?
     
  2. Sandiegodude1607

    Sandiegodude1607 USNA Midshipman

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    I can't answer all your questions but let me try to answer some from experience.

    1. Maybe/maybe not. My congressman, for instance, was extremely into getting his constituents into the academies so he called around and found other senator's/congressmen's billets that were unused.

    4. As I understand it, they will make final review of LOA candidates and then first review the primary nominees for all the congressional/presidential...etc billets. Then, they start their rolling admissions--I forget what day of the week they meet, but its pretty much where you are in the pile. By this point in the game, they will review your package and do one of three things--accept, decline with no further review, or put back in the pile for further review and/or SAT updates.

    5. They will release appointees as piles are completed. We have had several drags already who have appointment letters in hand.

    6. I have been told no, that being SQed is a double edged sword. Its an all or nothing.
     
  3. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Congratulations. Your son has completed two of the more significant portions of the application process. He has been awarded a nomination. This nomination can be by any one of the following three methods as determined entirely by the MOC:

    Competitive: This is the method of nomination favored by the academies. The Member of Congress submits to an academy an unranked slate of up to ten nominees for each vacancy. The candidates are then ranked in order of merit. The most highly qualified is selected for an offer of admission (an appointment). If the Member has more than one vacancy, ten nominees may be submitted for each vacancy (two vacancies:20 unranked nominees, three vacancies:30 nominees, etc.).The academy then selects the best of the qualified nominees.


    Principal With Competing Alternates: This method provides for designation of a principal nominee by the Member of Congress. The other nine unranked nominees are submitted to the academy for evaluation and compete as alternates. If the principal is fully qualified (academics, medical and physical aptitude),he or she will be appointed and will fill the vacancy. Note that this method does not take into account the quality of the other nominees if the principal nominee is fully qualified. On the other hand, if the principal does not qualify, the alternates then compete for the vacancy. Selection at this point is based on order of merit only.

    Principal with Numbered Alternates: Under this method, the principal nominee is designated and the alternate nominees are ranked in order of preference by the Member of Congress. If fully qualified, the principal nominee receives the appointment to fill the vacancy. If the principal nominee does not qualify, then the first alternate is considered for the appointment and so on In effect, the highest designated nominee who is fully qualified for entrance is appointed to fill the vacancy.

    Since the Competitive will definitely and Principal With Competing Alternates may involve the Admissions Dept competitively ranking all the candidates by order of merit in order to make an appointment, it is unlikely that appointments will be granted by these methods, unless in the second method the Principal is fully qualified, until the admissions deadline so all candidates packages will be complete and they can be evaluated fairly.

    Many MOCs will not divulge their method of submittal. That should not prevent the candidate from calling and attempting to ascertain the method.

    Your son is also scholastically qualified. This means he has been before the academic board which meets every Thursday. The board is comprised of various department heads, senior professors, members of the Commandants staff, and members of the Admissions Dept. A member of the Admissions Dept will present the file to the board. It will be presented on a large projection screen. The presentation will continue until the board, using little multicolored dies, agree on one of three outcomes: qualified, deferred for more information, or not qualified. The NOT QUALIFIEDS are then further examined at this time as potential NAPS or Foundation candidates. Only the not qualified are considered for these alternate programs.

    His next two steps are to ensure that he is medically qualified by jumping through all the DoDMERB hoops and to pass the CFA. After he has completed both of these, he will be triple qualified. Last year there were approximately 1900 candidates who fit this category.




    Exactly, all candidates who do not receive primary nominations from their MOC or the VP, or nominations from the President, SecNav, ROTC, etc. will become Qualified Alternates and enter the national pool.

    LOAs are letters promulgated by the Academy to “capture” highly desirable candidates and assure them that they have a spot at the Academy if they qualify. LOAs are not a part of US Code Title 10, which delineates in detail the selection process. Therefore they must fit within this law. All LOAs who qualify will be awarded a primary MOC nomination, either as a primary candidate or as the most qualified by merit, only if they indeed are, of a competitive slate. All others will be relegated to the national pool where they again will be ranked by merit and selected. Judicious promulgation of LOAs by the Admissions Dept should ensure that they all are qualified to obtain appointments by one of the above methods.

    Jan 31. Amplifying info such as revised SATs and end-of-semester grades may be added later but the basic package must be complete by Jan 31.


    I answered some of this above. After the candidate has completed the application (less DodMERB and CFA) and has completed the BGO interview, he is eligible for the board. My observation is that I see very few deferreds or not qualifieds at this time, so the admissions department is only putting those before the board at this point in the admissions cycle who they feel will pass.


    The Academy does rolling selections. The first group will be triple qualified primary ranked nominees from MOCs and also Presidential nominations. The others normally can only be filled once the deadline has passed and all pertinent applications are submitted and evaluated. And furthermore, only when all the primary appointments are filled can the qualified alternate pool begin.

    I am not 100% sure that SQed are NEVER offered alternate programs but I don’t think so. As I have stated above, these candidates normally come from the Not Qualifieds. NAPS offers normally have very strong packages with the exception of academics, either course work or SATs and, thusly, are not scholastically qualified. The typical bottom of the triple qualified list are normally overall weak candidates.

    I hope I have made some sense. It is a complicated process. Some MOCs don’t necessarily understand all the nuances and sometimes “play games” which can convolute the process and really not help anyone. Also, MOC representatives, barely understanding the process themselves, over simplify their answers to candidates, further confusing the issue. Bottom line: All appointments are done in strict accordance with US Code Title 10, Chapter 603.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  4. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    This is something that happened a long time ago. Don't know the exact date that the law changed. Now, with a few exceptions of military families, all candidates must domicle within the congressional district of their nominating MOC.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  5. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    USNA69 ... These are 2 posts EVERY genuinely intersted person should read, imho. Clear, concise, accurate (based on the experience of 1 ... and in fact you've revealed why ours may have received appointment offer when, how he did), and based on extensive personal experience AND training by USNA Admissions.

    THANK YOU!

    One question re: who receive the NAPS & Foundation offers:

    What is USNA thinking re: offering those spots to unqualified vs. triple Qed candidates? Should we assume that those "unqualified" (usually academics) are deemed better, more meritorious prospects for becoming an outstanding USN officer ... IF they boost their academics ... than those who have already been triple Qed but not appointed? Could you address this a bit more, please?
     
  6. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Must not have been as "clear, concise, and accurate" as I hoped.:shake:
    Yes, your statement is absolutely correct. The world would be a dull place if we only had the opportunity to deal with 4.0 engineering majors. The typical NAPS package is very strong in everything except academics. They are not "unqualified" in that they have medically and physically qualified and have presented an impressive package, academics not withstanding, to the Academy. Maybe not the sharpest knife in the drawer, maybe so involved in valid and pertinent extracurriculars that they didn't have "time" for academics. Strong SATs, weak grades. Weak SATs, great grades. But almost always a superior package otherwise. These are the candidates over which one becomes emotional. Against all odds, they apply. They really want a commission.

    The weaker of the triple qualifieds are just that, weaker. Since the whole person concept evaluates everything and they ARE qualified academically, guess where their weaknesses are which place them at the bottom? Yep. The "all the rest" portion. Remember other reasons for the bottom of the bar for academic qualifications. It must be low enough to reasonably capture that primary candidate in the least competitive congressional district in the US. It must also not be so high that we lose recruited athletes reasonably qualified to graduate.

    From my limited experience, I would take a successful NAPSter any day over the last candidates selected in the national pool.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  7. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    To the contrary, your 1st explanation was clear. I just needed you to say it another way to ensure this dim bulb:confused: may be a bit more enlightened. :hammer:

    Again. Thanks!:thumb: :beer1:
     
  8. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Before he puts his two cents in here (and he will) let me just suggest this:

    The purpose of the academies is to provide highly trained/educated officers for the armed services.
    It is entirely possible to be triple q'd and not be "officer material". Just because you are intelligent, physically healthy and resonably athletic doesn't mean you are cut out to be an officer.
    You could however be physically healthy, athletic, have excellent leadership potential and just need a little boost academically to make it through the rigors of plebe year. Maybe you just need an extra year of academics in math and science, maybe you worked hard, took challenging courses but your SAT's were a little low.
    What ever the case, it seems that if you are chosen for NAPS/Foundation you do have remarkable potential to become an excellent officer.

    In other words, they like you. They like you so much they don't want to lose you. So they send you away for a year to work on academics.

    It would not make good use of resources to send scholastically qualified candidates to NAPS/Foundation. IMHO, their best option would be to attend college, join ROTC and reapply. A USNA triple q'd candidate would stand an excellent chance of being awarded a NROTC scholarship and becoming accepted at an excellent institute of higher learning so that year would be covered anyway.
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Gee he beat me to it.... did we say the same thing?
     
  10. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    You've said it very well! We often want to make the SA experience analogous to the more general collegiate experience. They are different because their objectives are different, and you've reminded us of that.

    And your point of being triple Qed, while I'm not sure I concur as to why USNA would scholastically qualify anyone they would deem not qualified or not "officer material" ( I suspect a bunch of those tri-colored cubes noted by USNA69 would be "red" ... or whatever color designates NOT QUALIFIED in those instances ... and then would be put into the NAPS/Foundation potential candidate category and then either offered a NAPS/Foundation slot or DISQUALIFIED and removed from further consideration) In other words, I cannot conceive that any candidates deemed non-officer material would ever be triple Qed.

    So I think you and 69 said some of the same ... and then you got lost maybe a bit? :screwy: jk:shake:
     
  11. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    You've said it very well! We often want to make the SA experience analogous to the more general collegiate experience. They are different because their objectives are different, and you've reminded us of that.

    And your point of being triple Qed, while I'm not sure I concur as to why USNA would scholastically qualify anyone they would deem not qualified or not "officer material" ( I suspect a bunch of those tri-colored cubes noted by USNA69 would be "red" ... or whatever color designates NOT QUALIFIED in those instances ... and then would be put into the NAPS/Foundation potential candidate category and then either offered a NAPS/Foundation slot or DISQUALIFIED and removed from further consideration) In other words, I cannot conceive that any candidates deemed non-officer material would ever be triple Qed.

    So I think you and 69 said some of the same ... and then you got lost maybe a bit? :screwy: jk:shake:
     
  12. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    When candidates go before the board, all their attributes have been reduced to one number, the sum of all their whole person accomplishments. The board may, if it chooses, modify this number somewhat in either direction. I think it goes without saying that the more points a candidate has amassed, the more desirable he is as an appointee. As we descend the list, the candidates become less and less perfect. As we know, scholastically qualified is a lot more than academically qualified, it encompasses all the parts of the whole person multiplier. What if we have a candidate who is academically unqualified due to grades, SATs, or difficulty and type of coursework or a combination thereof, who, if they were only satisfactory, combined with their remaining whole person points, would be high up the list. They are worth a chance. An extra year of academics will prepare them for the academic challenges and their remaining whole person package will ensure that they have outstanding officer potential.
     
  13. Dknightfam

    Dknightfam Member

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    Great post '69. Always good info from you!

    Can I add a twist here? I understand your post regarding the traditional system that a Nominated (but non primary), non-LOA, Scholastically Qualified candidate will run thru, but what happens to that guy or girl if they have a "waiverable DQ" from DODMERB hiding in thier file also? Does thier file still get reviewed on the "traditional schedule" you referenced above OR do they automatically drop-out to the bottom of the national pool until such time as all of the 3Q'd candidates have been reviewed (and appointed) first?

    I ask because my son needs an eye-waiver (correctable to 20-20 as do many others here I suspect) plus a prior knee surgery waiver (one that USAFA has already waived)....

    Thanks for your thoughts and continued "suggestions" on how this will all work out.

    Dknightfam
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  14. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I must disagree -- on two counts. First, high school standouts don't necessarily make the most successful mids and the converse is also true. Just as being a succesful mid doesn't necessarily translate into being a great officer.

    Second, IMO one of the sad outcomes of this process is that there are some candidates who are "too qualified" academically for NAPS/Foundation but not "qualified enough" to get a nomination and thus can't get an appointment. This tends to occur in very competitive geographic areas.

    It's very hard for me, as a BGO, to have to explain to these young people why they -- who arguably have a stronger record -- don't get a chance to attend USNA or NAPS but someone with an arguably weaker record does (via NAPS). Their misfortune lies in living in the wrong state and/or district. I can't for a moment say that these kids, had they been selected for an appointment, would be any less deserving than a successful NAPSter.

    I agree that some NAPSters ultimately make "better" mids than those who attend USNA directly. But a universal statement that NAPSters are uniformly superior to the "bottom" of those admitted directly seems a bit unfair.
     
  15. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    I think you are getting caught up in mistaken impression that academic success is much more important than overall well roundness. I will not repeat myself but please go back and read my posts again. Most of the NAPSters, if the pure academic portion of their qualification were slightly higher, satisfactory instead of unsatisfactory, would have superior packages. These are superb candidates with an easily identifiable easily reparable slight glitch which a year of prep school will fix. Not so for those showing attitude, motivation, and potential concerns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  16. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    You are beginning to understand the reason for the unreasonable waits. The order of merit in the national pool is irregardless of the DodMERB results. That candidate will be tabbed but not awarded an appointment. When the DodMERB results are promulgated, he will either be appointed or the next person on the national pool list will be looked at.
     
  17. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    Thanks USNA69-Best answer I've heard.

    I agree with USNA1985 on the NAPS issue.

    J A M [It would not make good use of resources to send scholastically qualified candidates to NAPS/Foundation]

    NAPS does more than just have an academic curriculum - I would bet that the #1 "SQed"(whole person) would be challenged and learn a great deal at NAPS (Physically, Academically, Military and a chance to mature).

    J A M [IMHO, their best option would be to attend college, join ROTC and reapply.]

    It would be the same for those who were not "SQed"-actually more so for those kids that were academically deficient so they can become "SQed".

    J A M [A USNA triple q'd candidate would stand an excellent chance of being awarded a NROTC scholarship and becoming accepted at an excellent institute of higher learning so that year would be covered anyway.]

    Not necessarily true! Just because you are trip Qed doesn't guarentee you a NROTC scholarship. I'd rather have the sure thing NAPs over a maybe!
     
  18. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    If the purpose of NAPS/Foundation is to improve academics then if you are scholastically qualified why would you go there? Go to a four year college and be challenged.

    One thing they do at NAPS/Foundation which has not been mentioned here is to provide academic support. Small classes in a tight close knit environment. Structured study times and they also provide a lot of time management assistance. That kind of support will be invaluable for the otherwise bright kid who lacks a little bit on the academic side of the world, either because of lower SAT scores or low GPA or weak schedule.

    A student with high academic qualifications does not need this extra support and really won't benefit from it. I would be willing to bet it would drive that type of student crazy. They need to keep challenging themselves and go to a 4 year college with an ROTC program and shine there.

    From what I read about NAPS, one nice feature is that each subject in the curriculum has tracking. If you are strong in math and weaker in English or writing then you can take a higher level math - calculus and a lower level in English or writing to get extra support.

    The goal is to make the candidate a successful plebe.

    Foundation scholarship candidates complete their year at a prep school (one year post grad high school) or a junior college. If they don't make it to the academy they could have a year of non-transferable credits. Clearly well "qualified" candidates would have a better educational experience at a four year college. They also have another avenue of getting a nomination through ROTC.

    I suspect that if NAPS was not a "sure" thing that no triple qualified candidate would be interested in attending.

    I suspect that a triple q'd candidate who did not get an appointment and went to a 4 year college and joined NROTC, got good grades and did well in ROTC would have an excellent chance at appointment the next try.
     
  19. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Attention World!!! Attention World!!!!!
    The 2007 Memorial Senator Proxmeyer Golden Fleece Award Is Announced

    The US Navy, utilizing appoximately $45,000 taxpayer dollars for each of the 300 midshipmen candidates, is sending perfectly well qualified students to one year of school so that they may maybe perform marginally better as midshipmen once they enter the US Naval Academy the following year.
     
  20. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    How many of those "SQed" kids apply the following year and get accepted?
     

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