School choice questions

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Roughrider, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

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    Son, a sophomore, has been asked to describe his college choice criteria for his guidance counselor. Here is what he wrote:

    Yes, his grammar is appalling. My questions are, are the bolded parts correct?
    and, any idea how his poor guidance counselor is going to suggest he fill that little laundry list?

    Thanks.
     
  2. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    It looks like the guidance counselor has his or her stuff together, getting a sophomore to plan ahead. However, there may be a bit of a conflict in your son's goals since he wants 1) a good engineering program 2) that will allow him to get high grades, despite a schedule busy with ROTC, swimming and females (all laudable pursuits, mind you).

    He may want to get a list of the top 20 or 25 engineering programs, check which ones are AROTC host schools, turn the list upside down and start from there.

    (Confession: I'm way, way down on the list of people qualified to offer engineering advice. The first time I saw the abbreviations for STEM - Sci., Tech. Eng. and Math. - I remarked to myself that it was high time the Army was recognizing the need for English majors.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  3. 2017MarineDad

    2017MarineDad Member

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    Not answering your question, but looking at what you DS is wanting, can I suggest you look at Birmingham Southern College. My oldest goes there. The school is a small (1300) Liberal Arts college with a very good business school and can minor in pre-engineering. Has an AROTC (cross town with Samford University). BSC's president is General Krulack (ret commadant of the Marine Corp), a great guy. He tried talking my USNA canadidate son into attending (stated he would make it his personal task to make my son a Marine). The school is in the Colleges That Change Lives listing (should look at).
     
  4. paradoxer

    paradoxer Member

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    Clarkson??

    The Clarkson ROO is here daily, chat with him about opportunities.
     
  5. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Check with Clarksonarmy. IIRC SUNY Potsdam has a 3/2 Engineering with Clarkson, has Division III swimming, the walk between campuses IIRC is less than 1 mile (ROTC hosted on Clarkson campus), not urban or commuter. Relatively small (for public) school. SUNY schools are (or at least used to be) relatively low OOS tuition (in case he doesn't get the scholarship up front). And I even think the M/F ratio on SUNY Potsdam campus is favorable (not that he will have time for that).

    And I hear they have a pretty good ROO...

    One thing to ask him is if the scholarship would pay for the courses taken at Clarkson...
     
  6. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Great minds think alike. Clarkson fits the bill as well, except that it isn't low-cost public. That is why I mentioned SUNY Potsdam. Might be able to get that scholarship a little easier as well at SUNY Potsdam. Classes might be smaller, though at Clarkson.

    BTW, Potsdam is a nice town as well.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Roughrider,

    I sent you a PM
     
  8. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Getting back to the list of interests, I can see where it gets difficult to make everything work.

    Public, Small = hard to find
    Public, inexpensive = easy in-state, difficult OOS
    Engineering + Swimming(non-D1) = hard to find
    Swimming(non-D1) + Texas + low cost = does not exist

    Notice I didn't even add in ROTC?

    As states with public schools with relatively low OOS tuition, the 3 I tend to look at are:
    WI
    MN
    NY

    Good news is that these states have a lot of non-D1 swim teams.

    WI and NY have several small/medium schools. Not many have engineering. Few have on-campus ROTC. Potsdam was as close as it gets in NY. UW Stevens Point has "Paper Engineering" (for those of you who want to work in the paper industry - very big in that part of Wisconsin) but no other engineering. UW Eau Claire's engineering is a 3/2 with U Minnesota (which also has ROTC) but it basically requires 2 ROTC battalions to coordinate the ROTC - not likely.

    St. Cloud State in MN has D2 swim, Engineering, but the AROTC is hosted at St. Johns about 5 miles away. Don't know how much travel between campuses is required. It would be worth an inquiry though. Given the AROTC move towards public schools, there might be enough cadets at SCS whereby travel to the host school is not necessary.

    BTW, as the father of a girl who required a school looking for a goalie as well AROTC, I know what finding the handfull of schools that fit the bill is about.
     
  9. gojack

    gojack ....

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    If your son were to choose a SMC, he would not have to compete to get AD, it would be guaranteed, like West Point.

    Senior Military Colleges;

    North Georgia College & State University
    Norwich University
    Texas A&M University
    The Citadel; Charleston
    Virginia Military Institute
    Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (Virginia Tech)
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I thing this part is being overplayed. Last year only about 15% of cadets who wanted AD failed to qualify for AD. But it is a HUGE issue for Branch selection. The five most popular Branches all require a cadet be in the top 20% of the national OML.
     
  11. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

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    Thank you. We are familiar with the Colleges That Change Lives (our daughter attended Knox) but I hadn't thought to look at any of those schools for Son, thinking small private schools are unlikely to have business, engineering or ROTC -- and whaddya know, besides the one you mention here, McDaniel College has all three, and is the host campus for ROTC. (It's not low-cost but nothing seems to fit all the criteria.)
     
  12. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

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    Thank you -- Texas A & M is a fine school (many of his classmates have it as their only choice) but he is worried about the size, and the demands of division I swimming. He will visit and spend a night with the corps -- and at Virginia Tech, as well. Norwich is a bit more promising, size-wise, and has a swim team (North Georgia doesn't) but is not public.

    I think this whole thing is probably going to be an exercise in compromise.
     
  13. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

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    That's very helpful information. Dare I ask, is infantry (his primary interest) one of those most popular branches?
     
  14. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO)

    For AROTC cadets whose ranks are not high enough on the Order of Merit List, there is also the possibility of ensuring branch choice by signing an ADSO contract. A link is below.

    www.career-satisfaction.army.mil/resources/contracts/ROTC_Branch_of_Choice_Contract.pdf

    According to the contract, in return for incurring an additional three years of service the cadet will be ensured his or her first or second choice of branch. Note that the agreement may be cancelled by the Secretary of the Army.
     
  15. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    As a Potsdam grad ('74 non-ROTC) I'm kinda partial to the Clarkson/Potsdam suggestion and really think you should look into it. I took a glance at the catalog though and the 3/2 engineering programs are 5 years (hence the 3/2) which might present some issues with respect to ROTC. OTOH I'm confident the unit has had to address this in the past so I expect they'll know the ins and outs.

    We took DS to VA Tech for a visit and he also did an overnight with the CoC. Although he loved the guys and gals in the Corps it didn't really float DS boat. I wanted to point out though that although the student body is quite large, VA Tech, if you're unfamiliar with it, has a small college feel to it. Probably due to it's semi-remote location in Blacksburg. You have to like the look of Hokie stone though.
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Adding to EDelahanty's information about ADSO.

    A lot of cadets choose branches that are called Control Branch and volunteer for a branch detail. A cadet may ask for AG but be detailed to Infantry. In this case the cadet would start as Infantry and stay there for 3+ years before switching back to their control branch.

    Just another cog in the confusing wheel of branching.
     
  17. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Yes, Infantry is always one of the branches with more wanting in - then slots available.
     
  18. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

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    How exciting. This is looking as though many roads -- eventually, if you work it right -- lead to Rome. Do I correctly understand that even if he does not get into West Point, attend a SMC, or earn a 4-year scholarship, he could still earn a commission in the branch he prefers? He seems to believe that the scholarship would add a degree of certainty -- is that true? Exactly how much more difficult is it (if it makes a difference at all) to get where he wants to go as a non-scholarship ROTC graduate?

    His guidance counselor is inexperienced with ROTC and is pressuring him to put a couple of "name" schools on his list, which I believe is a bad idea on several levels. It's not that he is not ambitious -- it's that his ambitions really don't match the ones the guidance counselor is prepared to help him with.

    Thanks again for your input and patience in answering my questions.
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I realize this is a shameless plug, and it does not meet all the criteria the OP listed but for other applicants looking for similar schools they may want to consider;

    The University of Idaho

    OOS Tuition full cost w/o any scholarships is $18,000.00 +- a few dollars per year.
    Public University
    Well regarded Engineering and Business school
    On Campus Law School, great resource for Poly Sci and International Studies majors.
    Small Public School - 10,000 +- Undergrad population
    Not a commuter school
    Small College town.
    8 miles from WSU, allows for may cross town class opportunities.
    Only Div 1A Football stadium that is a covered dome, great when it's snowing.
    Hosts all 4 ROTC Programs
    Every cadet wanting AD received AD last year.
    Great Greek system with an old traditional Greek Row.
    Traditional old red brick campus.

    So there you go, my biased plug for the U of I, I confess, that my older son graduated from there last year and my younger son is a sophomore this year. We do not live in Idaho. They both have loved the school, just as most kids love the school they attend.

    Roughrider,

    Just saw your last post.

    Being a non scholarship cadet does not hurt your son at all in achieving his goals. The scholarship gives only one advantage, that is that a cadet can contract earlier with a scholarship. Being contracted would allow the cadet the opportunity to attend CULP or a summer training program. While these can add some points to a OMS there are other ways to earn those points as well.

    Most cadets are non scholarship.

    At my son's school, he was the only 4 year scholarship cadet when he started last year. By the beginning of this year they had given campus scholarships to 2 more cadets in his class. Of course my son's school is a smaller school with a smaller battalion which helps, these cadets were not competing with 50 other MS1's for the campus scholarships.

    Once they are enrolled in ROTC they will all be treated the same, scholarship or not, what matters is how they perform in ROTC and school.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  20. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Hard to go wrong with the U of I if it is a fit for you. It is a relatively small school in a small town but a lot of opportunities due to its close proximity to WSU.
     

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