Security Clearance

[Thunderbolt]

My parents and every other family friend (4 of them being academy graduates) feel as though I have been ripped off by the law and order office. I can't really say much except for the fact people have told me that I shouldn't mention it because it would require me to get waivers and all sorts of stuff thats not worth the trouble. I'm getting legal advice though this week, and I hope you won't lock this thread yet because we might find some news that I'm not familiar with yet.

Is this another possibility: After your appointment, If I mentioned the incident, would they take that as honesty since I'm basically jeopardizing an appointment to get that across...

Or would they probably take back the appointment. I wish I could Explain it to them FACE to FACE, rather than through an impersonal writing in paper.

 

[navy_clarinet_mom]

I have to do a lot of reflection and consideration here. I actually feel I shouldn't of had ever been charged so this is actually really hard for me. It goes more against my honor by putting it down. But my question was

EG, This is where I have a problem with your situation. From a legal standpoint, IF you were in possession of property that was not your and was not given to you by the original owner and was reported by the original owner as stolen then the charges/citation are correct. You may not agree with them but there are many that do not agree with citations that they are issued each and every day.

One thing to strongly think about is the Honor Code that is in place at the Academy and actually at each of the Service Academies. If you are serious in wanting to attend one of the Service Academies then you should start living and conducting your life under the beliefs of the Honor Concept.

Straignt from USNA website:

"Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which is right.

They tell the truth and ensure that the full truth is known. They do not lie.

They embrace fairness in all actions. They ensure that work submitted as their own is their own, and that assistance received from any source is authorized and properly documented. They do not cheat.

They respect the property of others and ensure that others are able to benefit from the use of their own property. They do not steal."

Now I will agree that by coming forward to assist in the investigation that you were "standing for that which is right", by chosing to not include it in the application process in an honest and correct manner (I hope that I read that you actually did include this in your application honestly) then you are not adhering to the second sentence of "to tell the truth and ensure that the full truth is known."

As was stated, the admissions office has most assuredly seen and heard far worse than you are presenting to them. By not being completely forth coming with all information in the beginning you then put the potential doubt in their minds as to what else could he be hiding. That is never a good way to start off a relationship.

I wish you the best in the whole application process. It is meant to somewhat test the type of person you are in your character.

 

[Thunderbolt]

"IF you were in possession of property that was not your and was not given to you by the original owner and was reported by the original owner as stolen then the charges/citation are correct."


I actually did learn some lessons from this:

1. Never help/trust the police.

2. Never accept stolen property.

3. Never trust our system of law.

4. Never believe that good actions will be rewarded. Always assume the worst.



------------------


Now let's take this into aspect:


I came forward and reported this incident, and they screwed me over for it.

Whats stopping the academy from screwing me over as well from mentioning this.



Take THAT into aspect. I learned a lesson from my past, and I don't want it to happen again.

 

[Soylent]

I think lesson 2 should actually be number 1. Don't blame it on the cops, blame yourself. You were too stupid to not know that receiving stolen property is illegal.

Don't go to the cops saying you were a part of something illegal and think that you're suddenly going to receive a get out of jail free card.

 

[2011's Mom]

"I wish I could Explain it to them FACE to FACE, rather than through an impersonal writing in paper."

I don't know how feasible this is, but I believe from our expereince that the SA admissions staff are very approachable. Why not call them up and schedule a time to go face to face and explain it to your admissions counselor? I realize that there is a cost involved in this idea - but if you feel this strongly about it and truly feel face to face would make a difference, then it is an option that can be considered.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Edited: I can deal with Soylent's ignorance another time

2011, would a former WP professor work? He works in my dad's office, and was a professor at the academy for several years. Are interviews only allowed with current admissions staff, or can I mention this to someone how was former? I wonder.

 

[USNA69]

Soylent's ignorance

EG, some of the rest of us have probably questioned your apparent lack of concern of why a guy is walking around with a basket of hood ornaments passing them out to the Colonels sons.

 

[Zaphod]

Yea, I am being Fed a line from somewhere else. A lot of people told me that it'll only be held against me, and unless I'm a Valedictorian or some other top ace, I won't get an appointment flat out because they don't want anyone with a record.

That is flat-out not true. One of my Plebe-Summer roommates was busted with cocaine while in HS, and not only did he get in, but he graduated, too.

I was "cited with receiving a stolen 10 dollar hood ornament from local child"

Big woop. That's nothing, provided you explain it and have had a clean record since.

I can bet you all the money in the world I'll get nothing but questions, and probably an endless barrage of disrespect which will only lead to a dismissal.

I wouldn't make that bet if I were you.

But I thank you all for the ethics and all, but I didn't really get an answer besides what RETNavy mentioned above.

Oh, boy.....

 

[Zaphod]

Question: I know for every other school in the United States, I have the legal right to put down "no record"

Are you guys telling me that for the academy, I do NOT have the legal right to put down "no record" ?

You will find that "legal rights" tend to fall by the wayside as matters of national security arise.

Will you be REQUIRED to disclose something? No.

However, as soon as they find out that you didn't disclose as requested, your chances of acceptance will become nil. Remember that an appointment is a privilege, not a right, and they can set their standards pretty much wherever they wish.

 

[Luigi59]

3. Never trust our system of law.

4. Never believe that good actions will be rewarded. Always assume the worst.

I am amazed that someone with this attitude can actually see themselves as an officer of the United States of America.

Exar Ganis - have you checked out UCLA, Washington State, or University of Nevada-Las Vegas? They are all fine schools, probably a little more realistic as a goal, instead of one of our military institutions which demand character traits that you apparently do not posses.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Luigi, I am hurt

Although my father graduated and attended ROTC at UCLA, he does not recommend that school. Also, you can't judge my character through an online forum without personally knowing me.

Zaphod: I was looking at your response for awhile, and now that you have left me with the space I was looking for, I am very likely going to be honest about the incident. Legally, I have the right to say No, but since the academy values honesty, disclosing my infraction wouldn't be held against me. Now, can you tell me whether your room mate put down that he was "cited with cocaine" on his application? Are individuals regarded as secondary candidates if they have a record of any kind?

USNA69: I think you are missing the point by not looking at the whole aspect. I was very young, and I did something that most people my age would've never done. I think its safe to say that no one else would've returned it just to stay out of trouble. The MPs made jokes about it all day. They said: "Kid, you should've never F****** returned the item" and they laughed. Lucky for them my father wasn't in the room at the time, but if he was, I think they would've refrained from saying that.

Now, honest opinion, by disclosing this to the academy, Will I be regarded as a secondary candidate? And will it be held against me during admissions?

 

[Zaphod]

Also, you can't judge my character through an online forum without personally knowing me.

You'd be surprised...

and now that you have left me with the space I was looking for

Are individuals regarded as secondary candidates if they have a record of any kind?

There is no such thing as a "secondary candidate". You are either a candidate or you aren't. How long you remain one depends upon your record and those you are competing against, and the only way you stop being a candidate is to either get an appointment or be declined for one.

Will I be regarded as a secondary candidate? And will it be held against me during admissions?

This has been answered more than once. Since this thread has become a broken record, I'm shutting it down.