Senate NOM, maybe not the greatest thing?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Coach62, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    It just occurred to me, my DS has a Senatorial NOM to AF, I thought that was a real positive. He also has an appointment to NA, but waiting to hear from AF.

    But I'm starting to think that a MOC NOM might be better?? With a Senatorial NOM you're competing against the 10 best in the state, with a MOC NOM, you're only competing against the 10 best in your congressional district.

    Am I missing something or does that sound about right?
     
  2. 624mom

    624mom Member

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    That depends. Does your state double nominate. In some states candidates have been told a Senator they would have nominated them if they didn't have one from their Congressman or JROTC or President...

    Frequently you hear of multiple kids from the same state/district getting in. This just goes to show that is the SA wants you you'll get in.
     
  3. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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  4. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Coach62, congrats to your DS on his appointment to USNA. To clarify for all lurkers, MOC noms include senators and district representatives. They are all members of congress (MOC) with senators from the senate and representatives from the house.

    To answer your question, one NOM is not better than the other and if your DS already has the NOM from that senator, he is one of the 10 best in his state. Now he just needs an appointment and his competition is the other 9 candidates on that slate. If he had a NOM from his representative, he would still be competing against the other 9 candidates on that slate. You only need one NOM to land an appointment. If your DS is not charged to that senator for an appointment , he will then go into the national pool (NWL) and hopefully pick up an appointment from there. I hope you hear good news soon.
     
  5. greenarcher9

    greenarcher9 Member

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    Newbie here, so if you are in the national pool and get a nomination there, does that mean it came from the superintendent of the academy or got it from another MOC who did not utilize theirs?
     
  6. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    :welcome1:Greenarcher9. You don't receive a nomination from the NWL. You must have a nomination already to end up there. You can receive an appointment from the NWL and it could come from the Superintendent. Again, you cannot receive an MOC nomination unless you reside in that particular state or district. It's just like insurance; it does not cross state lines. :) Read the stickie at the top of the nominations forum and many of your questions can be answered there. It is very informative and detailed on how nominations and appointments work.
     
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  7. greenarcher9

    greenarcher9 Member

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    Sorry about that FalconsRock, I meant if you get an appointment instead of nomination. Thanks for the info.
     
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  8. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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    Good advice from FalconsRock -- check the Nom Stickie.

    It is my understanding if you are selected from the National Waiting List (NWL) or the "National Pool" you are not "charged" to a MOC nomination source. Other non-MOC nomination sources include, Presidential (if you are eligible), Vice Presidential (if you applied), Secretary of the military service, SA Superintendent, ROTC/JROTC (if eligible) and there are some others I believe that I can't remember. Federal law allows for, and/or establishes some of these with specific rules.

    If the SA wants you/needs you to fulfill their needs . . . and you have a nomination . . . and you are qualified academically and in physical aptitude . . . they will find a way to bring you in from the National Pool.

    Just be aware that you can also have a great record, but not great enough to win the congressional slate you are on, and thereby be put on the NWL or in the National Pool . . . and the SA can then pick someone from the NWL/National Pool whose record is NOT as good as yours and offer them the appointment instead of you because that person fulfills a need of the SA better than you do. It is not personal. As I and others have posted in other threads, for the "big 3" SAs, about 500 of the 1200 slots go to the "congressional slate winners" and about 200 or more go to the recruited athletes and the LOA recipients leaving around 350-500 slots that are drawn from the National Pool. The SA uses the National Pool to "round out" the incoming class to meet their geographic, gender, ethnic and other diversity goals trying to have the class represent our society and the make up of our military.

    Work hard to make your record of academics, leadership, athletics, community service, etc. as good as you can. Apply for a national ROTC scholarship as well, and work on having a great Plan B that will get you a great education and prepare you to serve.
     
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  9. greenarcher9

    greenarcher9 Member

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    Everyone here has a wealth of knowledge, thanks Falcon A/FalconsRock for sharing. We have a Plan A, B, C and D for DS. So far grades are majority A's in Sophomore Yr, plays a varsity sport and does club for same sport on a very competitive team. We'll see how the next 2 years unfold.
     
  10. USAFA83GradWife

    USAFA83GradWife Member

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    Oh goodness. So many waiting and hoping for noms on here. It's fantastic that your son got a Senatorial nom. Do the happy dance! Besides, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. There are so many other more important things to worry about. :)
     
  11. brovol

    brovol Member

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    In general, your conclusion is correct. If you had to chose either a single senator nomination or a Representative nomination, the Rep is better because, presumably, the senator offers nominations to the top ten applicants in the state, and that is the pool of candidates you are competing against to win that spot, whereas the Rep only offers to the top ten in his/her district, thus lesser competition. On the other hand, frequently the Senator will offer nominations to those who "need" them more. Thus, because most of the top candidates have already secured nominations from other sources, the senator may offer nominations to those who did not receive one from his or her congressman. Theoretically at least, that could mean the senator's pool is lesser competition than your particular representative's pool.

    Actually, it is a matter of perspective which philosophy you prefer. We are just realizing that my son, who is applying to USNA, USMA, and USAFA, and received nominations to all three a couple months ago from our Rep, did not receive a nomination from one of our senators. Another senator gave him a nomination for USMA, but before it even reached USMA (still hasn't gotten there) my son received his appointment to WP, so that nomination wasn't used. I am pretty sure my son was one of the top ten USNA candidates in our state, and I suspect he didn't get that second USNA nom because the senator wanted to spread the wealth. Who knows though; maybe I'm wrong. I am one who believes in a merit based reward system, so I'm a bit jaded, but my perspective would likely change if the circumstances were different. It is what is.
     
  12. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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    It depends.

    For the lurkers, a Senator's nom does not count more to the SA than a House of Representatives nom, and a Representative's nom does not count more to the SA than a Senator's nom. A nom is a nom is a nom. Be glad and grateful if you receive a nom. It is usually the first "cut" that occurs.

    There is already a good thread here on Multiple Noms: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com...ations-to-a-single-academy.45011/#post-460106

    If you are the #1 on a MOC slate (Senator or Representative), and you are 3Q qualified as determined by the SA, you receive the appointment unless there are very rare and unusual circumstances.

    If you aren't #1 on a slate, you go on the NWL/in the National Pool.

    I believe the inference from Coach62 and brovol is that a candidate has a better chance being #1 on their House of Representatives slate as opposed to their Senator's slate. That could be, but it really depends on the competitiveness of the applicants in the state, the competitiveness of the congressional districts in play, and how much the Senators and Representatives coordinate their picks.

    For instance, in years past, the Virginia senators and representatives (especially from the very competitive districts of VA 10 and VA 11) would coordinate so they didn't duplicate nominations in order to maximize the opportunities for the large number of deserving applicants. I've been told by their review board staff they would even share their selection/ranking lists with each other prior to making their noms known, and then they would re-allocate kids from the competitive districts to the Senators in order to maximize the opportunity for the most qualified candidates. It is common in VA for there to be 200-300 applications for a nomination to each SA to each Senator and to the VA 11 and VA 10 Representatives. The applications are all from separate distinct kids because in VA you can't apply to multiple SAs with the Senators and the NoVa Reps. You have to pick only one. The MOCs then seem to select around 50-60 of the nom applicants for interviews and then, as you know, 10 get a nomination. So let's say VA 11 had 15+ kids that deserved a nomination and so did VA 10, and then there are the other 9 districts of the state of Virginia that had deserving candidates but not as many as in VA 10 and VA 11. The Senator and Reps review board chair, in years past, would try to coordinate so each of the 15+ from VA #10 and the 15+ from VA #11 would get a nom either from a Senator or their MOC -- and they didn't just give "the bottom 10" from the MOC to the Senator -- so it might be that the #2 kid on VA10's list becomes the #1 kid on Senator X's slate, and the #2 kid on VA11's slate becomes the #1 kid on Senator Y's slate. They would coordinate and allocate and in effect "disperse the talent".

    Hope this makes some sense . . . you can drive yourself crazy trying to game it . . . for those getting ready to enter the process the best advice is to work hard to make your record of academics, leadership, athletics, community service, etc. as good as you can. Apply for a national ROTC scholarship as well, and work on having a great Plan B that will get you a great education and prepare you to serve.
     
  13. Letsdothis

    Letsdothis Member

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    VA senators received 600-650 applications to EACH SA this year, as reported in Mark Warner's correspondences.
     
  14. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Wow! I would not want to be the one trying to choose 10 candidates. Sheesh.
     
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  15. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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    Let's do this -- can you post it with the personal info blacked out? Would be good reference for the future.

    My memory of last year was that it was a craftily worded letter that implied 600 apps per SA but upon closer scrutiny was more representative of the total number of apps received for all 4 SAs that require Noms. Either way, it is still a lot of applications for a state the size of Virginia.
     
  16. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    Thanks everyone. Please don't misunderstand, I wasn't trying to make a huge deal out of this, it was an observation more than anything. Like my DS said, he'd be proud to attend and serve at any of the SA's and we know he's getting the opportunity to attend NA.

    My original thought was "wow, senatorial Nom, that's great, he's sure to get an appt. being in the top ten in a populous state like FL". It was just a dose of reality when I realized what that actually entailed. He's up against the top ten in a populous state like FL. That's quite a challenge.
     
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  17. Letsdothis

    Letsdothis Member

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    We thought, too, that certainly must have meant 650 in VA total for all three academies. However, we spoke to senator's coordinator while DS was being interviewed. She stated that USNA had 650 apps and the other two were somewhere in the range of 620 each. She told the group of candidates while they waited that "making it to the interview process literally came down to not having a single typo in an already amazing application." She stated it was the most competitive year thus far. They interviewed 65- 70 candidates for each academy.
     
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  18. Letsdothis

    Letsdothis Member

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    I agree with you. But I do think there is coordination among the offices, at least in VA. If the ten kids on the senators lists are also quite strong on the congressional lists (which is likely), I believe the offices decide which list gives the candidate the best shot at an appointment, then place the name in the better option. I was very happy to hear this happens even if senators and congressmen are of different political parties!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  19. brovol

    brovol Member

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    I would. My kid would get one for sure. Lol. Kidding. ....well, I think I'm kidding.
     
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  20. brovol

    brovol Member

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    That's true, but if he doesn't win that spot he will still be placed on the nwl. At that point it comes down to being among the top few hundred candidates, none of whom won either their rep or sen slots. That is not to disparage those candidates at all. Really that is the largest pool of outstanding candidates, particularly with respect to the top 500 or so. I would guess that those who are selected from the nwl fit statisticaly more closely to the class profile mean averages.
     
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