Sequestration 5 cuts

Again -- the sequester cuts nothing. Not a thing.

A slowdown in the rate of growth---is not a spending cut. Period.

You cannot spend $15 Billion more dollars this year than you spent last year and say you are having a "cut" in spending.
 
I am going to assume Member you are a GS13-15+

Let's remember just like the military the majority are going to be in the GS7-11 range.

Electricians, plumbers, etc are not going to answer the phone, and unlikely to get a call, instead the DoD world will sit on the list and wait to have it fixed.

DH is the hierarchy on the GS paradigm. as I suppose you are too. He has already set up our home computer for him to do some work. I know him he won't harm the AF because of political posturing in DC. I used it as an example.

Still the fact is with furloughing you may be off Monday, your counterpart is off Wednesday. Nothing will be completed until Thursday at best because you send it 4 p.m. Tuesday, your counterpart doesn't get to it until Thursday, and thus, Friday it is moving forward, but oh wait a minute. You get it at 3 p.m. send it on and no answer until you come back to work on Tuesday.

OBTW, your home computer is not a secure network like the Pentagon, please tell me how you can work from home even if you answer the phone, you can't build a brief if your computer at home can't translate the classified information.

The electrician isn't going to run out to base housing.

The housing office isn't going to bust their butts to get you in a base/post house if you are in the Q's one more night. Come back at 8 a.m!

As far as the 35 and the impact on defense for the next 10 yrs.

The 35 is AF, Navy and Marines. It is not the 22 AF only. Part of the deal was selling to:

UK
Australia
Canada
Netherlands
Italy
Israel
Turkey
Singapore

I am sure I am missing some countries, but the point is:
A. Economically for the US this is a big deal... we will have 2400 and 9 other countries will get 3100.

~~~ That is a lot of jobs.

B. I am not an insider, but let's assume we kill the 35...our newest airframe for AF would be the 22, that we killed. That leave the Strike as the next newest...30 yrs old.

China is moving forward.

I don't know the Navy's newest or Marines for combat, but I am guessing it is the 18. How old is that?

Again...go for it! Kill the 35 with a 7.9% unemployment rate. As the article stated 45 states are tied to the production. What do you think the unemployment rate will be when you kill it?

What do you think our air superiority will be in 10 yrs as China builds their next gen jet?

Luigi,

Tell those that will be furloughed the sequester cuts nothing. Not a thing. Especially, after reading Ms. Pelosi saying that MOCs won't take a pay cut because it would degrade them as an elected official.

It cuts 20% of their pay for 22 weeks.

If I recall correctly your DS went CG, is it not impacting his training?
 
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Taxing BAH would eliminate BAH, and I think we're assuming first year grads make more than they do in the real world (how I always referred to the private sector when I was still in).
I don't think taxing BAH takes it all. I am not following you here.

I know what we pay starting engineers and how that compares with some university published salary surveys so I think I am close. However, for the first 5 years, especially academy grads the differential can be seen as paying back your education cost.
 
A new O-1 with an engineering degree is going to start out making about 15-20% less than the new civilian engineer even with BAH. I think that is fine but if the discrepancy gets too large we will lose the very people we need. For non-technical majors, I don't know how the pay compares.


As a recent college graduate most of my non-tech friends are sleeping on their parents couch either unemployed or working one as a rental car associate, bartender or selling insurance for little more than minimum wage plus commission. I am sure O-1 pay for them would be a godsend. Up here engineer starts out around 65-70k which is probably comparable to O-2. The odd (or sad) thing about the Army is you can get a degree in general studies or some random niche degree like "Organizational Leadership" from an online school (Yes I have seen it...) and make just as much as that engineer who toiled for five years and probably have a better chance of getting the branch you want.

It doesn't really matter we can't sustain this war-time budget forever, the gravy train has to end sometime.
 
As a recent college graduate most of my non-tech friends are sleeping on their parents couch either unemployed or working one as a rental car associate, bartender or selling insurance for little more than minimum wage plus commission. I am sure O-1 pay for them would be a godsend. Up here engineers starts out around 65-70k which is probably comparable to O-2. The odd (or sad) thing about the Army is you can get a degree in general studies or some random niche degree like "Organizational Leadership from an online school (Yes I have seen it...) and make just as much as that engineer who toiled for five years and probably have a better chance of getting the branch you want.

It doesn't matter really we can't sustain this war-time budget forever, the gravy train has to end sometime.
Agree.
 
Again -- the sequester cuts nothing. Not a thing.

A slowdown in the rate of growth---is not a spending cut. Period.

You cannot spend $15 Billion more dollars this year than you spent last year and say you are having a "cut" in spending.

You're talking "big fed" not individual agencies. Some agencies that are entirely fee-based, and receive $0 from the federal government, are subject to the policy. How do we reconcile that?
 
I am going to assume Member you are a GS13-15+

Let's remember just like the military the majority are going to be in the GS7-11 range.

Electricians, plumbers, etc are not going to answer the phone, and unlikely to get a call, instead the DoD world will sit on the list and wait to have it fixed.

DH is the hierarchy on the GS paradigm. as I suppose you are too. He has already set up our home computer for him to do some work. I know him he won't harm the AF because of political posturing in DC. I used it as an example.

Still the fact is with furloughing you may be off Monday, your counterpart is off Wednesday. Nothing will be completed until Thursday at best because you send it 4 p.m. Tuesday, your counterpart doesn't get to it until Thursday, and thus, Friday it is moving forward, but oh wait a minute. You get it at 3 p.m. send it on and no answer until you come back to work on Tuesday.

OBTW, your home computer is not a secure network like the Pentagon, please tell me how you can work from home even if you answer the phone, you can't build a brief if your computer at home can't translate the classified information.

The electrician isn't going to run out to base housing.

The housing office isn't going to bust their butts to get you in a base/post house if you are in the Q's one more night. Come back at 8 a.m!

As far as the 35 and the impact on defense for the next 10 yrs.

The 35 is AF, Navy and Marines. It is not the 22 AF only. Part of the deal was selling to:

UK
Australia
Canada
Netherlands
Italy
Israel
Turkey
Singapore

I am sure I am missing some countries, but the point is:
A. Economically for the US this is a big deal... we will have 2400 and 9 other countries will get 3100.

~~~ That is a lot of jobs.

B. I am not an insider, but let's assume we kill the 35...our newest airframe for AF would be the 22, that we killed. That leave the Strike as the next newest...30 yrs old.

China is moving forward.

I don't know the Navy's newest or Marines for combat, but I am guessing it is the 18. How old is that?

Again...go for it! Kill the 35 with a 7.9% unemployment rate. As the article stated 45 states are tied to the production. What do you think the unemployment rate will be when you kill it?

What do you think our air superiority will be in 10 yrs as China builds their next gen jet?

Luigi,

Tell those that will be furloughed the sequester cuts nothing. Not a thing. Especially, after reading Ms. Pelosi saying that MOCs won't take a pay cut because it would degrade them as an elected official.

It cuts 20% of their pay for 22 weeks.

If I recall correctly your DS went CG, is it not impacting his training?

A challenge assoicated with an internet forum postings are what is said and not said. GS 7 painter is not going to work during furlough. I am pretty sure there are more GS 13 -15 than GS 11 and below in DC area. Again, if I get furloughed I will answer phones and emails, but won't do any signficiant work.

As for F35, you only partially answer my question as to if or when Chiness build next generation fighters as the threat that F35 need to counter. Respectively disagree, and I welcome any AF type to chime in, as to the next generation Chinese fighters will largely depend on what Russia is willing to share with China. The current modern Chinese fighters are copies of Russian fighters. So do you think Russia is going to share the latest hardware with China? I am assuming unless Cheney becomes the President, we will never invade China (kdding). I really don't forsee China to have force projection capability to forward base their fighters to attack US.

Lastly, what do you think the unemployment rate will be if we kick the can down the road again. Keeping the F35 live might keep the unemployment rate low for next several years, but eventually we won't be able to defer our spending problem to our childern because our childern will grown up and we will be still alive.
 
Electricians, plumbers, etc are not going to answer the phone, and unlikely to get a call, instead the DoD world will sit on the list and wait to have it fixed.

Well, now, that's business as usual.
 
As far as the 35 and the impact on defense for the next 10 yrs.

The 35 is AF, Navy and Marines. It is not the 22 AF only. Part of the deal was selling to:

UK
Australia
Canada
Netherlands
Italy
Israel
Turkey
Singapore

I am sure I am missing some countries, but the point is:
A. Economically for the US this is a big deal... we will have 2400 and 9 other countries will get 3100.

3100 copies, shared by all the services, and the per unit cost is still $140 million? How about having the countries whose a***s and oil supply lines will be protected by this advanced technology cover some of the costs.

What do you think our air superiority will be in 10 yrs as China builds their next gen jet?

There isn't a weapons system on the drawing boards, for which that argument has not been made.

Aglahad said it best. We can't sustain this wartime budget forever. He should put that in memo form to Dick Cheney, Donald Rumfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Frank Galvin and the rest of them.
 
My opinion, F35 is a prime example of a military-industrial complex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

Military–industrial complex, or military–industrial–congressional complex, is a concept commonly used to refer to policy and monetary relationships between legislators, national armed forces, and the military industrial base that supports them. These relationships include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry. It is a type of iron triangle. The term is most often used in reference to the system behind the military of the United States, where it gained popularity after its use in the farewell address of President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961, though the term is applicable to any country with a similarly developed infrastructure.
 
This is not just about the DoD. National Parks like Denali, Pearl Harbor, probably Yosemite and Grand Canyon too.

I think I heard Pres BO say today that if the sequester went through, the glaciers on Denali would melt by July and the Grand Canyon would be filled with sand by the end of the year at the latest.
 
...as to the next generation Chinese fighters will largely depend on what Russia is willing to share with China. The current modern Chinese fighters are copies of Russian fighters. So do you think Russia is going to share the latest hardware with China?

Why take Russian tech when you can have the best from General Electric? BTW did GE make the engines and rotor blades for the F-35?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/business/global/18plane.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
As for F35, you only partially answer my question as to if or when Chiness build next generation fighters as the threat that F35 need to counter. Respectively disagree, and I welcome any AF type to chime in, as to the next generation Chinese fighters will largely depend on what Russia is willing to share with China. The current modern Chinese fighters are copies of Russian fighters. So do you think Russia is going to share the latest hardware with China? I am assuming unless Cheney becomes the President, we will never invade China (kdding). I really don't forsee China to have force projection capability to forward base their fighters to attack US.

Hmmm, where to start?

OK, how about here -- Meet the J-20, one of two stealth fighters the Chinese are developing (the other being the J-31).

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com..._stealth_fighter_program_keeps_moving_forward

Not exactly roaming the skies in vast numbers over the Taiwan Straits as of yet, but it is a LOT closer to doing that than predicted just a few years back when F-22 production was discontinued.

As to China's force projection capabilities? Well, they are getting a little better at that as well....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/25/world/asia/china-aircraft-carrier-landing

Again, not near to our levels, and not ready for a few years, but they ARE progressing. And sure, their carrier is just a re-furb of a old Russian flat-top, but how many other countries are currently getting ready to employ aircraft carriers?

Just some examples that the threat, while maybe not here today, will certainly be here in a few short tomorrows. And, as we all know, China likes to sell it toys to others.:wink:

But this is a discussion on the Sequestration, with lots of folks wondering whats the big deal. I'll post in a little bit on my th0ughts: yes,cuts are needed, but these cuts need to be done in a much smarter and more effective manner. The current method is simply done stupidly, more for show than for any real reason that actually addresses the problem.
 
The AF COS seemed to think that there were no powers close to the U.S. stealth capabilities. Not something I heard second hand. Heard it at the Pentagon... almost two years ago
 
OK, as promised, my thoughts on why the sequester is one of the dumbest policies enacted over the past few years (and that is saying a lot based on some really poor decisions made over the past few years)....

I'll start out by stating the obvious: YES, cuts DO need to be made, to include cuts in the military spending levels. Simply put, we cannot afford the current spending levels anymore, and the debt needs to be dealt with. More importantly, the PROJECTED debt due to our current obligations, which stands at over $70 TRILLION, not current debt (which is a mere[/i[ $16,5 Trillion).

So, cuts DO have to happen. Serious cuts. So why are the sequester cuts bad? Well, let's say your family has been living the highlife for a few years, buying lots of great new toys, racking up that credit card debt to the point where you finally say "Oh oh". You sit the family down at the dinner table and tell them the bad news: we've got to stop spending so much. At least 10%. And how would you cut that 10%? Would you look at where you're spending the most, compare it to what you NEED the most, and make a new family budget based on that? Or do you just arbitrarily say: 10% from EVERYTHING. Only gonna pay 90% of your electric bill? The power company may say something about that in a few months. Pay only 90% of your mortgage? The bank will DEFINITELY say something about that, in 3 short months. So, you need to make some smart cuts to ensure you aren't making dumb financial decisions.

So, where to cut? Well, say your family has three big expenses: the home (mortgage, which you can't touch, and utilities), your cars, and your food budget. Lots of other not so big expenses, like entertainment,eating out, little Johnny's Karate classes. little Suzies dance classes, and little Billy's traveling bag pipe team (yeah, I went there). Well, if you made a decision like the sequester, 2/3rds of your cuts come from the car budget, with only a third coming from some other places. But, you won't downsize cars, You NEED that big SUV and expensive foreign sedan based on your life style, So, most of your car budget cuts come from your car maintenance bill. You don't touch the other areas; your family still eats 3 times a week, little Johnny still has karate 4 days a week, Suzie still dances as many times a week, And Billy? Well, he's still going to that Tatoo in Scotland next month, in a brand new kilt no less!

This is what sequester did. Mostly cuts in the military, but with no guidance form Congress or the president to alter our national strategy in order to reduce military commitments. Do the same with less, a LOT less.

A that, my lord, is why we know the Earth to be banana shaped.... (quick kiddies! Name that movie reference!)
 
The AF COS seemed to think that there were no powers close to the U.S. stealth capabilities. Not something I heard second hand. Heard it at the Pentagon... almost two years ago

Yeah, you did. He echoed the SecDEF, who stated that China's stealth aircraft wouldn't be operational until 2025, so stopping the F-22 production lie wasn't that big a deal. Based on intelligence estimates he was given (I think by a Coastie :shake:).

Estimates brought to you by the same folks who missed 9/11, and thought Afghanistan was on the road to stabilization in 2003. Estimates that once again proven very wrong....
 
BTW, it really isn't the Chinese and Soviet future airplanes that are the big problem (although they WILL become a problem).

It's their CURRENT, and robust, Integrated Air Defense systems, with double digit Surface to Air Missiles using advanced and agile radars and digital networks that are the big problem.

And it's not just China and Russia. Ask yourself, why HAVEN'T we set up no-fly zones in Syria?
 
Yeah, you did. He echoed the SecDEF, who stated that China's stealth aircraft wouldn't be operational until 2025, so stopping the F-22 production lie wasn't that big a deal. Based on intelligence estimates he was given (I think by a Coastie :shake:).

Estimates brought to you by the same folks who missed 9/11, and thought Afghanistan was on the road to stabilization in 2003. Estimates that once again proven very wrong....

Ha, you must have been there, because Gates was there right after him.

They actually mentioned the Chinese fighter, but that the stealth technology was far behind U.S.
 
This is what sequester did. Mostly cuts in the military, but with no guidance form Congress or the president to alter our national strategy in order to reduce military commitments. Do the same with less, a LOT less.
Keep in mind that the sequestration was never intended to be a smart and well reasoned financial approach to cutting the budget. I think it's important to remember that the "intent" of the 2012 budget compromise was to motivate both Congress and the President to find a more reasonable approach to cutting the federal budget before these automatic spending cuts took affect. Sequestration was designed (IMHO) as such a ridiculous alternative to compromise that even Congress and the President would have to find a more sensible approach to deficit reduction. Clearly that hasn't happened. :thumbdown:
 
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