Should I drop the ROTC program?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ary, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. ary

    ary Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I'm in my first semester of AFROTC, and I'm enjoying it very much. Although I need practice of getting out of my comfort zone and command presence (which will come with experience I'm sure) I am in a dilemma of dropping the program because of gpa requirements. I didn't realize that they were so strict on grades, so it has a really bad effect on me considering my first semester college I got a D,W,F, D, and B. But since then I made up all those grades. So in short, my actual gpa in college averaging out to be a 3.0 exact, while in the program its calculated as a 2.3 because they take into account EVERYTHING. Which is very unfortunate for my situation. I know that a 2.5 is minimum requirement and a 3.0 is competitive. I was told that to get my 2.3 to a 3.0 in the program I need to aim for a 3.5 each semester until I compete for field training my second year in the program. Currently I'm thinking about dropping a class which I know counts as an F in the program.

    Any thoughts on whether or not I should just drop it now even though I'm half way into the semester? What are other ways for me to be in the Air Force?
     
  2. afrotc16

    afrotc16 Member

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    In a previous post you mentioned that you were a 250. If that's true, you'd be competing for field training this spring and your cumulative GPA after this current semester is what they'd use for FT selection. I'd definitely have a sit down talk with your commander about whether you're competitive for FT selection. Midterm counseling should be coming up anyway. As for dropping that class, talk about that in the meeting also. Don't just drop it because you're failing - the most serious part is whether you need to pass the class to graduate. I don't know whether AFROTC looks at it as a F or not when calculating your GPA. You have to remember that in AFROTC, academics come first! So figure out what's causing you to do poorly in classes and fix it. There's still time this semester to bring your grades back up.

    As someone who went through FT selection last year - it doesn't look good for right now. But if you can pull off some A's this semester, then you might have a shot. You really need above a 3.0 to have the least chance.

    Good luck! Remember, academics come first!
     
  3. ary

    ary Member

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    Since then, I have changed to a 100. But even then, I'm still skeptical of my chances. I do need the class I'm planning to drop but right now it doesn't look like I'll be passing so I plan on dropping it before deadline, and retaking it next semester to get rid of the W.
     
  4. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    That's not true, W's do NOT count as F's when AFROTC is calculating your grades. AFROTC does not accept Freshman Forgiveness or grade replacement. If you fail a class and retake it for an A, your college will get rid of the F, but AFROTC will input both the F and the A. So don't let that factor into your decision, a W is definitely better than an F.

    I say drop the class. If you know it's going to bring your gpa down, let it go. There's no shame in it, I've dropped a class this semester. I knew under different circumstances, I could have aced it, but I was taking 7 classes, all requiring several extra hours of work per week. I've realized I cant take 7 classes a semester like I used to freshman and sophomore year, the classes are a lot harder and ROTC requires a lot more time now that I'm a POC.

    Don't let it become a habit though, that's when ROTC and future employers are going to start looking at W's. Try and plan your classes out better, have at least one easy A per semester to supplement those lower grades.
     
  5. ary

    ary Member

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    If a W does not count as an F for ROTC, how do they calculate it into your gpa? I'm planning a meeting with my commander before I drop anything to see if I still have a chance. If I drop this class it will be my second W in my college career, but I would rather take the W than an F that will bring down my gpa. Also, does AS class contribute to your college gpa?
     
  6. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    They don't. It's not a real grade, it just says you didn't complete that class. An F goes in as a 0, a W doesn't go in any gpa calculation for your school or for ROTC at all. The reason your school gpa is different from your ROTC gpa is that the F's and D's you got were replaced by the retake grade (if you retook them) by your college, whereas ROTC took all the failing grades and passing grades and input them into your AFROTC gpa.

    Also, you can not "get rid" of a W, it stays on your transcript, even if you retake the class later. Like I said before, F's and D's only disappear if you retake the classes through some sort of Freshman Forgiveness or Grade Replacement offered at your school, BUT AFROTC does not accept either program and will keep those failing grades in your record. 2 W's is ok, and 3 is about the max you want in your college career b/c more than that makes your ability to do the work and handle the difficulty questionable.

    And yes, the AS class goes into your gpa because you get a grade in it. LLAB is pass/fail so it goes on your transcript, but not in your gpa calculation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The thing is AFROTC SFT selection is not just cgpa. CGPA is actually a small component. Your CoCs ranking is the huge part. The AFOQT is a factor too. Pull those 3.5s, but bust the AFOQT and you will not be selected.

    By becoming a 100 that says to me you are extending your academic career. Are you doing this for ROTC?

    Other aspects that you have not placed into the equation is are you intending to go rated?

    This might not be what you want to hear/read, but I would research AF OTS. This will allow you more time to get that cgpa up. The risk is that you might not get a pilot slot, but ABM, CSO or RPA.

    It can be difficult to get picked up for OTS if you get disenrolled from AFROTC for not be selected for SFT.

    I would also say that it will allow the marijuana use to become less of a factor. If I recall correctly, you have 2 different answers (3 and 7) and these all occurred in the last four years with the latest date being this year.
    ~ JMPO you are going to need to get time/distance from this aspect on your official record.
    ~ Again, something you might not want to hear/read this, but don't you think the NCOIC discussed this with your CoC? You told the NCOIC 7, and than said to the CoC 3. I would think they are wondering/questioning you for giving 2 different answers.
    ~~ Ask them right now between these two issues, where do they rank you among your peers, assuming you can pull a 3.5 from here on out.

    If they say top 50%, the pressure will be on you. Reason why is they didn't say top 25%. If they say bottom 50%, than I would visit the AF recruiting office over Thanksgiving or Winter break and look at that option.

    I know this is not what you want to read, but I don't believe in blowing smoke up anyones arse! I believe in being honest and showing that there is more than one path to obtain your dream.

    The ball really is in your court. Ask the question or not, your choice, but wouldn't it be better to know right now if a year from now with even a 3.0 to know if from a CoC perspective they are going to back you?

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  8. jbsail

    jbsail Member

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    ^^^ Times are tight and its tough enough to get into OTS without a smoke wavier. Zero chance, best bet is ROTC.

    Go talk to your command not about dropping the class but about your grade. Could be some office hours with the professor and tutoring you are missing.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That is what is great about forums like this.

    I disagree with you. Reason why?

    Red flag was sent up already regarding marijuana use.
    ~ As an adult, I have to wonder why he gave 2 different answers? Honor code comes into my mind right off the bat. Can I get behind them when he tells my NCOIC 7 and me 3?

    Second flag is starting to be raised regarding academics.
    ~ We don't know their major and their intended career field.

    Third reason comes back to the marijuana use and CoC rec.
    ~ Do they support him knowing that he has stated on record 2014 was the last time he smoked. Will he get DQd from DoDMERB and need a waiver? Should they fight for a waiver for him?

    Leaving now doesn't close OTS. Staying until he gets disenrolled will close the door.

    OTS/OCS at least will put him out until 2017 and the marijuana use will be not in a two year time frame. They go through a different process than ROTC for selection.

    Now for right now I agree, but nobody here is psychic and can determine what chances are regarding OTS in 3 years. It is easier to look right now and say chances of carrying a 3.5 for 3 semesters is not high when looking at their historical academic record. However, carrying a 3.2 and graduating with that cgpa is much higher, and proving marijuana was 3 years ago, not 1 year ago is going to help too.
     
  10. ary

    ary Member

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    I'm a sophmore, third semester. The reason why I went down from a 250 to a 100 was not to extend my academic career for ROTC, but because I'm at a jc and I would be a spring transfer to they decided for me to go down.

    By the looks of how I'm doing in the class that I want to drop, I think it would be best for me to drop it if its going to affect both my gpas. Other people who commented in the thread said that Ws are not calculated, but is that for everywhere?

    I want to go non rated and my major is business
    I am still waiting on the results from my Dodmerb
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would ask him to be brutally honest at this point on what your chances are as a nontech nonrated candidate with a 3.0 cgpa.

    I would ask him what in his mind you will need to score on the AFOQT to be competitive. This test is similar to the ACT, with sections including pilot and navi, which everyone takes even nonrated. You can only take it twice, plus there is a 6 month waiting period if you want to retake it.
    ~ That exam is worth 20% of your score. I think that is the percentage, maybe it is 15%, but you get the point. Even if you decide to go OCS this test will be given, so it is best to buy the study aid if you did not do well on other timed standardized tests like the SAT or ACT. If you did well on those exams than don't worry. Our DS did not study and scored in the 90s, but he also scored a 33 or 34 on his ACT first and only time he took it.

    As far as the W stands, some schools will post it as WP or WF, so although the GPA won't take a hit, your academic advisor is going to know whether you fwere passing or failing at the time of the withdrawal.

    My true concern for you is you are nontech wanting nonrated. That has always been very competitive for SFT selection.
    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  12. afrotc16

    afrotc16 Member

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    Here's the thread about FT selection from this spring.
    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=37810

    The last page has stats on the selection as a whole. The 17% selection rate for non tech non rated was what Pima was referring to when she said your chances are slim.

    But again, all of this changes every year so you might have a good shot - we never know.

    Good luck!
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Okay, let me make it clear....afrotc16 is exactly what I was referring to, but did not want to rain on the parade.

    Now that this link is out there here are a couple of things to ponder.

    1. Prior to this past year where cadets had to sign rated or nonrated papers, they never did it.
    ~ 2 or 3 years ago they had only 5 Max's for FT....one SFT only, after that they went back to 6
    ~ They also had 93% selection rating and years prior it was 55%.
    ~ SFT was 28 days and they got per diem. This year it was shortened to 23

    Nobody knows what this year or next will do when it comes to SFT.

    2. In all my years here, the avg for nontech was not 3.0, but 3.3+. 3.0/3.1 is the tech cgpa.
    ~ I am sure there are some with a 3.0 as non techs, but that AFOQT and PFT better be hitting out of the ballpark.See my earlier post about the AFOQT. Plus, they better be at least the top 1/3 in ranking

    The selection process is a mathematical equation where the CoC rank/rec, cgpa, PFT and the AFOQT/ACT/SAT on record makes up the score.

    Assume they have 2300 slots. The highest 2300 scores will go. At SFT the slate is wiped clean. As a POC for your career AFSC, the rank out of SFT will not be in your equation.IOWs you cold be number 2299 on the SFT OML score, but get DG out of there and now you jumped up on the OML.

    I do not want you to give up, because you can do it. However, at this point I would have to say that if the CoC says you are top 30%, and know:
    1. To get to 3.3 you need at least 3.8 every semester
    2. PFT currently 95.
    3. Had a 1200 SAT or 28 ACT super scored, not best sitting. (AFOQT is best sittingand it is really science oriented because of the pilot/nav sections)

    I would strongly consider dropping now. The reason why is what I said in my earlier post. You can concentrate on your academic career and apply for OCS.
    ~ Nobody in ADAF cares about your commissioning source
    ~ OCS traditionally has two boards a year. Bad fiscal times they cut it to once a year.
    ~ You can apply at the end of your junior year and know before you start your senior year that you were picked up. If not you can reapply again for the January board.


    I really do believe the ball is in your court if you ask the right questions to the cadre.

    Ary,

    Out of curiosity how is it that they sent you for a DoDMERB exam as a non-contracted cadet? That is not typical.
    ~ Typical is for scholarship recipient or cadets that are up for SFT.

    Also how is it that they can pull you back to a 100 and not extend your academic career? You must be a POC for at least 3 semesters. If they have you as a 100 now, than the earliest you can graduate is Dec 2017 because you can't go to SFT until 2016.
    ~ You have said you are a third semester sophomore. If you get on track academically than you would be 1st semester junior Jan. 2015 and on track to graduate Dec 2016.
    ~~~ You will be forced to extend your academic career because of ROTC

    Just saying think about every option now..
     

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