SMA wants 4-mile run, 12-mile march for PT test

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by bruno, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/...ses-4-mile-run-12-mile-march-pt-test-021312w/

    It will really be interesting to see what they finally decide upon for the new PT test. While I kind of agree with the Sgt Major that the PT needs to be hard, but practically the more events they lard onto the test, the more complicated,time consuming and resource intense they are going to make it to administer in the field.
    Bottom line though- if you are going into the Army - you need to understand that the expectation on you as an officer is that you are a heck of a lot more than just a marginal pass on the PT test. Drive yourself hard and the standard that you should be shooting for is a max on the test, not a "good enough to pass as long as they grade you leniently".
     
  2. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Call me cynical, but this sounds like a plot to get soldiers to quit/retire or get rid of soldiers to reduce the force without conducting a reduction in force (RIF).
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Good! We have so many fatties and turdbags in the service right now, it's unreal. If he wants to weed out numbers, I have ZERO issue with him using rigorous "fit to fight" physical standards to do it. It's better than some arbitrary metric.
     
  4. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Not to go off topic, but 4 mile run and 4 hour 12 mile road march only measure a small fraction of "fit to fight."

    Is there a strong relationship between being a qualified pilot and being able to do a 12 mile road march under 4 hours?

    I always questioned the 12 mile road march at the end of the Air Assult school (I assume they still do this). If we are conducting an air assult mission and have to march 12 mile, why don't we just land the helicopter closer to the objective?
     
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Uhhhh, enemy AA fire? Only LZ is 12 miles away? The LT wanted to take a walk through the beautiful countryside?
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Member, I have to say I am waiting with baited breath to read Scout's response.

    Have to say kinnem summed it politely.

    I also thought of Scott O'Grady with your question. I doubt he thought as an AFROTC cadet that he would be running through the woods of Bosnia for 6 days.
     
  7. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The issue is in your definition of pilot. Pilots are in the Air Force and Navy. Army aviators fly Army aircraft. While that may seem like a semantic distinction, it's quite meaningful. First and foremost, the job of an Army Aviator is to close with and destroy the enemy in close combat. His specialty is to do it with an aircraft. But he may not always have an aircraft. Maybe he got shot down. Maybe he had to PL in Indian country. Maybe he balled the aircraft up on the infil and now he's humping out with the assault force. Being fit to fight involves being able to effectively complete the three most critical soldier tasks: shoot, move, communicate. That's what makes Army (and Marine) aviators different. Their continual involvement in the basic skills of soldiering makes them an extension of the ground maneuver force and not "the Army's Air Force" (per FM 1-100).

    That's the reason. Because everyone, when the chips are down, is an infantryman.
     
  8. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    :thumb::thumb:
    Geez- I couldn't have said it better if I had hired a speech writer!! Two thumbs up. Huah!!
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Thanks, I'm sending this post to my son.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    We live about 60 miles from Ft. Lewis. Last summer we went to the LDAC graduation. As we were walking around Ft. Lewis it became clear that they must have a Krispy Kream Doughnut at some secure location.
     
  12. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    There's a location near the Tacoma mall.:shake: Seriously though if you have ever been to an army DFAC you will know why the branch is overweight.

    I still want to see some short term scientific research done on why the 4 mile is better than the 2 mile for mission as well as cardiovascular purposes. In order to train for the 4 mile run PT routes will no doubt be increased to 5-6 miles just like the 3-4 we do currently. Looking at evidence of human kinesiology, 5 days a week training for this type of run is not beneficial to one's joints or muscles. I understand the Marines have a 3 mile run (which I think is a happy medium), but this 4 mile "gut check" just seems like another ploy or eventual byproduct to kick people out. There are a lot of ways to kick shi*tbags out besides doubling a PT run...

    Look, the majority of ROTC cadets are often deemed as PT studs (as they should be). A large majority of us either hit 300 or are very close. The only guys I know who get taped are forced to because of their muscle mass. Changing PT standards is not going to make the army thinner or healthier, you need to start by clearing out the DFAC of crap and reducing fast food locations on post. Nutrition is at least 50% of the battle and when you weigh less PT becomes magically easier and more motivating.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  13. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I know that you are an exception, but many Army aviators I know (I know I am stereotyping and my sample size is small) don't think like you do.

    I don't disagree with your points, but we have to careful about setting our standards too high.

    How many pilots do you think your unit will lose if we implemented 4 mile run and 4 hour 12 mile road march?

    How many times have Army pilots been shot down behind the enemy line and acted as an infantryman?

    Why not make the requirement 24, 36, or 48 miles?
     
  14. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

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    Good post Scout. How hard is the Army being hit by the budget cuts now that the numbers are out?
     
  15. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Spoken with the certainty of a man who has never tried to chapter a soldier out. I am sorry to say that reality is going to slap you in the face the first time you try to boot someone.

    You do realize that 4 miles at a 9-minute pace is already an existing Army standard, right?
     
  16. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Yes, I know the bureaucracy behind chaptering a soldier out.

    At the same time, if we follow the process we can chapter soldiers out. Yes, it takes time and effort, but soldiers get chaptered out everyday so it's possible. I am not a fan of bureaucracy, but you can use the bureaucracy to your advantage. Anytime one of my subordnates come to me with a conduct issue, the first thing I ask for is the documentation (i.e. counseling statement).

    You might have to refresh folks on what Army standard is 4 miles at a 9-minute pace and how that relates to possible adverse action if you don't meet it.

    AFPT failure could lead to a separation.

    Not doing 4 miles at a 9 minute pace leads to what? Bad OER/NCOER?
     
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The adverse action would depend on your commander. In many units, a PL who fell out of a 4-mile unit run would quickly find himself without a platoon, especially in the current environment where we have so many LTs.

    My point is that it's not as though the SMA just pulled this standard out of his hat. This is an existing standard.
     

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