SMP changes???

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by scoutmaster, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. scoutmaster

    scoutmaster New Member

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    Ds is a national guard soldier and a non scholarship ms2, he will be eligible for contracting after this fall semester, PMS is telling us he may not be able to compete for an active duty slot when the time comes due to CC assigning him a gfrd( spelling) control number. WHAT????!!! I am flipping my lid right now. Someone please tell me this is not the case, because this was how my son got recruited into the guard in the first place, by the previous PMS and guard recruiter. Please talk me back off the ledge!! Ds has worked so hard to make this happen with no debt and all he wants is a chance to compete for an active slot he is 3.5gpa and 295 pt score.
     
  2. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    DS is an ECP (early commission program) MSIV cadet doing SMP on full scholarship. At the time he was recruited the Army was allowing ECP cadets to compete for active duty even though they accepted an GRFD scholarship.

    Today it is not a certainty. In fact the belief is that Cadet Command is not going to allow any ECP cadets to compete for active, although they have not said as much.

    I would say that if your DS is probably in the same boat (although not positive), especially if he has accepted any GRFD funds or that is what his scholarship would be. The best bet is to prepare to not be allowed to compete for active duty, that is what DS's PMS is telling them.

    Is it written in stone, not to my knowledge. But the Army and cadet command can change their minds at any time.

    I have a co-worker whose son was recruited by the national guard and was told he could apply to active duty at any time. Which technically is true, however the probability rated of being accepted is very very low based on active duty recruiting and draw downs.
     
  3. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Once you are GRFD I do not believe you can go active.
     
  4. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Scoutmaster, DS was wanting info on GRFD so I asked on the forum. Here is the response from Clarkson:

    ..a GRFD scholarship is the same as a line scholarship. If your son wants to convert his line scholarship to a GRFD scholarship he is doing two things:
    1. He is taking Active Duty off the table. There is absolutely, positively no way he will have active duty as an option when he assesses.
    2. He will be required to start drilling in the Guard or Reserves.

    There are two instances when I try to sell a GRFD to my Cadets. One is when they don't have a scholarship, and the only way they will get one is GRFD. I make absolutely sure that they know they are trading active duty for getting college paid for.

    The other instances is if the Cadet is sure he doesn't want active duty, and he/she has a burning desire to begin drilling now. Personally I don't think there is a good reason to do that, but there are people out there that are telling these Cadets they will be better officers and they will be making more money, and they will retire earlier if they SMP/GRFD. I'm not saying those things won't happen, but I don't think the return on investment is equal to the cost in time spent not focusing on academic success.


    I hope this helps with your question.
     
  5. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    Maybe just bad recruiter info. My DS is SMP but not GRFD. I imagine that is why he did not go that route. With SMP he gets FTA, Guard Cap and can pick up GI Bill if needed since he is fully deployable. A few semester back they froze the CAP for a short time. I called and asked is that not the promise he signed on or contracted...... They stated it is never a guarantee, only if funds are available. To cover the windfall he has accumulated student loans.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  6. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    This I can see......
     
  7. scoutmaster

    scoutmaster New Member

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    That is my point my DS is a non grfd cadet. He has payed everything out of pocket. How can they pull Ad off the table without some major announcement. That is a major recruiting tool for the guard and ROTC batt. I just hope he is not wasting his time. He wants at least a shot at AD. If this is indeed the case CC should make an announcement because there will be a great migration out of ROTC IMO. That is just shady dealing.
     
  8. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    True, the only way is/was (at this point it is an uncertainty for the future), thru the early commision program thru a junior military college.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I guess the first question would be, did your son ever accept the GRFD Scholarship, has his tuition been paid through the GRFD?

    There has been talk that some NG Units, depending on the State, are now requiring their SMP cadets commission into the National Guard.

    Your son needs to talk to the PMS again and get some more information, he should also talk to his NG unit to find out what's going on from their end.

    As we have seen with all the changes to ROTC, CC has implemented them mid stream, effecting MS3's and MS2's that joined the program under the old system. As much as it hurts, it would not surprise me a bit that the NG would change the rules for commissioning in the middle of the game.

    Right now it does not sound like it is written in stone, I would find out more info from the PMS and the NG.
     
  10. scoutmaster

    scoutmaster New Member

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    Thanks jclep, no he has not received one dime in anything from the guard. It should be communicated by CC , if this is indeed the case. IMO the guard should release them if they contract. Not breech the agreement. But I guess we know why CC will not put it in writing. Cause they would lose a lot of potential cadets. I'm sorry for being negative but I hate to see my son get messed around. As far as his unit, they are as useless as well you know.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Just trying to get a better handle on your son's situation.

    I assume he has been drilling with his NG unit, has been receiving drill pay?

    Did your son attend both BCT and AIT.

    Since he has been in the NG has he taken advantage of ant Tuition Assistance, is he receiving any GI Bill/Kicker (This would only be available if he had completed BCT and AIT)

    Like I mentioned above, some NG units are rumored to be requiring their soldiers to commission Guard if they are contracted as SMP cadets. I don't believe any cadets from this board have had that happen yet, though it sounds like something similar may be happening to QA1517's son, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

    If your son's NG unit is not being helpful with information make sure your son talks to his PMS further about this before he signs a contract.

    One thing to for your son to consider if the worse case scenario happens, if your son turns down the contract he will still be obligated to the NG, if he hasn't been to BCT or AIT he will be required to complete both. If he drops ROTC he would be deployable with the NG and would be required to attend any follow on training. This could delay his education.

    I guess the bottom line is that your son has signed with the NG, one way or another he will have to fulfill that obligation. Completing college and commissioning would be the best route even if he is obligated to serve as NG.

    I certainly understand your's and your son's frustration, this doesn't end with ROTC. My older son branched Aviation in 2012, completed flight school, flys the Kiowa OH-58D and is a PL with Cav Squadron in Hawaii. 2 months after he finished flight school and reported to his unit the Army announced they are retiring the Kiowa. Only 20% of the current Lt Pilots will be offered a transition to a new airframe, some will re-branch and some will be phased out of the Army. This was certainly not in my son's plans but with the Military it is not all that unusual.

    I hope for the best for your son, please keep us informed as to how things progress, there will be many SMP cadets on this board that will be very interested in what is happening.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  12. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    Of course he has to get an answer straight from the source(s). Then the answer from CC vs NG may be different and require some more digging. If no guard money has been given I suppose no extended guard contract has been signed??? How could they hold him? I am clueless however and just learning....

    As a parent I feel your frustration been there many times on this road in the last 3.75 years. As hard as it may be let him work it out and ask the questions. Hopefully he communicates the outcome to you better than my DS does sometimes. I know though it is hard to stay seated on the bench....

    My sons RSP unit was just a holding zone so to speak. After AIT his units have been good and a great learning experience for him. In particular the unit he reported to after contracting after his MS2 year. He says it has put him far ahead of others in his knowledge and military skills, as he sees it. Sorry it has not been the same for your DS and I hope you get things ironed out soon and in your DS's favor. Keep us posted.

    Edited.... as I slowly typed jc posted a helpful post for you..... again Good Luck!
     
  13. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Did your son keep copies of any and all paper work when he enlisted in the guard? If not, see if ORIGINAL copies are on file at HR with either his ROTC BN or NG unit. You should keep copies of ALL signed papers, we even asked for copies of all paper work signed electronically at MEPS and this was accomplished with no hassle. Keep copies of everything and always ask for copies of any couseling or other paper work put into the cadets file with either AROTC or NG. We have found this invaluable.

    Hopefully, this is a simple miscommunication and will resolve in your DS's favor, but as Jcleppe mentioned, some states - Ohio is one - that changed their state scholarships into "GRFD" type agreements that you must take NG duty or repay any scholarships monies they paid on your behalf. DS grandfathered in under the old system, but many of his younger cadets got caught unable to use the promised at recruitment benefit w/o incurring this potentially negative result.

    Good luck!!
     
  14. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    After reading jc's post.... yes things are changing fast. I saw something on Fox last night about them handing out pink slips to Officers while on deployment?
     
  15. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    You guys have me wondering now. My son is grandfathered but I want to know because people sometimes ask me about the guard route because they know DS took it...
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Best advice for new cadets considering the NG.....always Read the Fine Print, things are changing by the week it seems, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
     
  17. pkarmy6

    pkarmy6 Member

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    I am a prior service SMP cadet in the National Guard... I am also an MSIV. You must always read the fine print before you sign any papers with the military. Also lets not complain about CC making changes alright? At least the 1s and 2s will know what to expect more for the future...they changed everything for us.

    Your units should not have any influence if an SMP cdt is able to become an AD LT. The only ones they can "force" are GRFD and CDTs that did not make the AD cut. Your son has worked hard, but as with everything it is the needs of the Army vs. your needs. They will always win.

    The rules change every year and when your son is an MS3 and then a 4 they will be different. Its part of being a leader, be adaptive and you will win through the day.

    Your son sounds like a great future Army officer! Good luck, I know how hard all this can be!
     
  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I have a feeling people will continue to complain until everything shakes out over the next few years, many have a good reason.

    I'm not sure what your getting at as far as everything changing for the current MS4's. the 4's will commission under the same criteria as in past years. The changes will effect the next class of current MS3's the most, these cadets had no time or opportunity to make any adjustments.

    Your not quite correct on this one. There are several states that have changed how the NG handles the SMP cadets. Some states now require SMP cadets to remain NG if they take any tuition assistance, even if they do not sign a GRFD.

    I agree, CC rules and regulations are like the weather, if you don't like them, just wait a day and they will change.

    Good luck with Accessions tomorrow.
     
  19. scoutmaster

    scoutmaster New Member

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    Update
    Forwarded all paperwork to PMS for review. He confirmed son is not grfd. He says he may can compete. Depending on what the system looks like when he goes next year. He said for him to maintain his GPA and pt and he should be competetive. I want to thank all you for being involved. This was the first place I turned when we had an issue. Yes I am former military so we have every piece of paperwork ever shown to our son. Lol. But it a sounds as if he is OK for now. Yes he completed osut. Actually delayed his entry to college for a semester but he is tracking well now. He is not a stem major but I hope he will be fine. Watching the posts closely to see what IS coming down the pipe. Thanks all.
     
  20. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    Sounds like better news scout.... Good Luck to your DS. I am sure my MSIV is waiting for the day to shake out.
     

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