somehow not competitive anymore? confused.

[Packer]

I have to disagree with Packer. Unless they have changed the formula it is:
60% PAR (gpa, SAT. class rank, school profile, curriculum rigor)
20% ECs (athletics, class president, NHS, and CFA)
20% Recs (ALO, teachers, GCs, essays)

OK, I did broad brush it a bit and glossed over the details. Below is from West Point because I can't find AFA's description at the moment but I do recall that they were essentially the same. The point is you have to do well in all 3 areas.

The three major areas of the Whole Candidate Concept and their individual weight are: 60% Academics, 30% Leadership Potential and 10% Physical Aptitude. Within each of these areas, and especially the first two, are nuanced sub-and sub-sub-areas for which points are given or not.

Over the years, the Whole Candidate Concept has proven highly successful in identifying candidates who will succeed as Cadets. The goal is a Cadet who graduates as a Commissioned Officer in our United States Army.

Not winning a district/senatorial nomination, or a highly enough ranked district/senatorial nomination if their Congressperson/Senator(s) rank orders their nominees, is a usual but not the only reason for a candidate to be placed on the national waiting list.

The overall reason for being placed on the national waiting list is having a Whole Candidate Concept ranking that is just below the cut off point for offers of admission for a given Class.

All candidates are ranked by the scores receive through Whole Candidate Concept and the first 150 such candidates who rank just below the cut off point for offers of admissions to a given Class automatically are placed on the national waiting list, in rank order.

Thus the importance of retaking SATs/ACTs to bring up one's scores (a major element of the 60% academic component of the Whole Candidate Concept), of varsity sports letters and leadership, of sustained community service and leadership activities, and of passing the PAE (Physical Aptitude Exam) with the highest possible scores in each event.

 

[Packer]

Here it is:

http://www.airforceadmissions.com/academy/

■An Academy candidate's overall composite score is based on 60% academic composite (high school or college academic performance, SAT or ACT scores), 20% extracurricular composite (athletic participation, leadership position, public/community involvement and work experiences), and 20% admissions panel (faculty and staff review, candidate fitness assessment, Admissions Liaison Officer interview, and writing sample).

 

[Blackbird]

The AFA is stating that right now looking at what the board is seeing, 1250 is low. 3 yrs ago they probably would have said something different. It will be interesting to see the profile of Falcon Prep for this yr.

I agree with Pima that it will be interesting to see the profile of the Falcon Preps awarded for this year due to the higher level of competition for fewer available slots. My DS is a Falcon Prep right now. His ACT scores were 31E/30M/33R/31SR which puts all his scores in the 670-740 SAT range and he has some classmates with even higher ACT/SAT scores. Clearly EVERY point in every area of WCS is important.

 

[Packer]

I agree with Pima that it will be interesting to see the profile of the Falcon Preps awarded for this year due to the higher level of competition for fewer available slots. My DS is a Falcon Prep right now. His ACT scores were 31E/30M/33R/31SR which puts all his scores in the 670-740 SAT range and he has some classmates with even higher ACT/SAT scores. Clearly EVERY point in every area of WCS is important.

Those are incredible scores for a prep school appointment! There goes the thought that one had to be on the low end academically but very good in the other areas to get a prep school appointment. This is actually good news.

 

[Pima]

I understand that is WP, and as I stated in my previous post, AFA may have changed their percentages, but the last I knew for the AFA it was 60/20/20.

I leave this to Flieger and CC to step in for clarification.

The AFA may now be at the 60/30/10 that WP has for their selection. It may also be at the 60/20/20 because just like Harvard has their selection process compared to Yale, and both are Ivy, it doesn't mean they have the same selection process. You would not lump the two together just because they are both Ivy.

For an example.

AFA acknowledges on their web site what the MIN is for the SAT/ACT CR/V to be deemed competitive. USNA does not. You would not assume that USNA has a line drawn at 490 CR for SAT or 24 V for ACT, would you?

AROTC and AFROTC have 2 different scholarship systems, but you would not assume to say that the boards have an identical approach when it comes to awarding.

That is the same here. WP is WP. AFA is AFA. USNA is USNA. They are allowed to use their own criteria to determine the WCS that their branch decided was the best method.

I am not trying to be antagonistic, I 1000% agree maybe the AFA has changed to the 60/30/10. However, I am saying we shouldn't say to an AFA candidate that they use the WP method.

That is a huge deal for some kids because in your scenario, where does the recs and essays fall under? The 30%?

You also stated:

30% EC with most of the EC points coming from athletics. I think the other 10% is CFA

At 1st glance you are saying be a jock, and because a big bulk of the 40% is athletics, academically you can be lower and get in.

Again, the problem with an internet forum is it is the internet, and now a real time conversation. I can only read your post and make a conclusion of what you are stating until I get clarification from you later on.

This is why tempers flare, and feelings are hurt. The intention was never meant to amp it up, it was just to state their opinion.

That is my bass ackward way of saying, I did not mean to offend.

 

[Karek]

I agree with Pima that it will be interesting to see the profile of the Falcon Preps awarded for this year due to the higher level of competition for fewer available slots. My DS is a Falcon Prep right now. His ACT scores were 31E/30M/33R/31SR which puts all his scores in the 670-740 SAT range and he has some classmates with even higher ACT/SAT scores. Clearly EVERY point in every area of WCS is important.

Very similar to last years Falcon scores. While some fell a bit lower most were extremely competitive as you state. I have never seen specifics on Falcons only and their scores, only relaying my DS and his friends who attended Northwest Prep as Falcons last year. Most appear to be doing well this year as doolies.

 

[Packer]

I doubt anybody is offended.
Nobody will know what there WCS is anyway. The point is that you mast do your best in all areas. Many of the leadership points come from athletic involvement and the profile shows that very few get in without a varsity letter.

See my above post: 60/20/20 is the stated AFA split but the categories are labeled a little differently.

Of course the academies criteria is going to be somewhat different but they are all pretty similar. They are all building leaders for the protection of our great country.

 

[Blackbird]

. . only relaying my DS and his friends who attended Northwest Prep as Falcons last year. Most appear to be doing well this year as doolies.

Glad to hear that most are doing well as C4C's. We are hoping/expecting that our DS and his current NWP classmates will experience that level of success next year at the Academy.

 

[USAFretired1996]

Those are incredible scores for a prep school appointment! There goes the thought that one had to be on the low end academically but very good in the other areas to get a prep school appointment. This is actually good news.

Packer, just to clarify, Blackbird's son did not get an appointment to the AFA prep school. He was fully qualified but no vacancy so he was not eligible for an appointment to the prep school. He, along with my son, received one of 100 Falcon Foundation Scholarships offered to QNV candidates to attend one of five specially selected junior colleges/prep schools to make them more competitive for appointment to the 2016 class. From what my son tells me, the 9 Falcons at NMMI all have similar credentials as Blackbird's son.

 

[Packer]

USAFretired1996, I didn't word it well but that was my interpretation. Still WOW and Great!
Congratulations. Glad to see that your and Blackbird's DS and many others hard work payed off even if they did have to go the "5 year route".

 

[Pima]

Nobody will know what there WCS is anyway. The point is that you mast do your best in all areas. Many of the leadership points come from athletic involvement and the profile shows that very few get in without a varsity letter.

1000% agree, but also to fine tune it for some. Athletic involvement does not necessarily equate to being the Capt of the Varsity FB team. Some candidates have demonstrated their athletic abilities and leadership in non-school sports.

For ex: DS was a TKD 2 time state champ and a bronze medalist for Jr Olympics. He was a black belt, and also worked as an instructor. Another poster here who is an AFA grad also had no HS sports, but did TKD at the same level of our DS. He too was a National Champ.

DS also was a lifeguard with 23 saves. He submitted a rec from the mgr where they discussed in detail what the athletic requirements are and the frequency they are tested for qualification for his job. In his case, it was monthly. He had to not only perform CPR, but also had to dive into the pool retrieve a 10 lb weight in the 10 foot section and exit without ladders within 45 seconds. He also had to retrieve a body with his flotation device and no ladders within a minute.

We knew he did not play HS traditional sports and this would be an issue for him, that is why we talked to RD at the AFA and asked if he could submit this letter from his boss. They said YES.

I only state this for lurkers and posters who now fear that they are in jeopardy because they don't have a Varsity letter from HS, but do non-traditional athletics.

Also, as other have posted Falcon Prep School at CSprings is not the same as Falcon Foundation Scholarship.

Prep is the AFA's way of saying academically you need one more yr to be on par, yet we want you.

Foundation Scholarship is their way of saying there is no room at the inn, but we want to prove we believe in you.

I hate to say this to Stephanie and others, but IMPO I am shocked at this point they have called the ball on her and declared non-comp. Her stats are on the low side, but not insanely low, esp. since the noms aren't out yet...or maybe her MOC has submitted, and 1, 2 or 3 other people on her slate have submitted and their WCS is beating her by a lot.

I don't know, I am not on the board. I am just speculating, so please no flaming.

To say 1250 is too low, and even if they switched the numbers around. AFA states 490 CR is the min to be deemed competitive, she is still above it by @100 pts. Something is just not adding up.

The something to me is they may believe from historical perspective, that she is too low for AFA or Falcon scholarship, too high for AFA prep and with this yr expected to be the lowest admit yr in yrs., they don't want to waste her time.

I don't know.

I will say most AFA's also apply for AFROTC. Beware that WCS will be important for them too, and now it will also have 2 new factors.

1. Major.
You can major in Military History at the AFA. For AFROTC Military History is NON-TECH. 5% of AFROTC scholarships are Type 1 (Full ride). 5% of Type 1 are non-tech.

Do the Math. Let's say there are 10K applicants, mimicking the AFA pool. 2K awarded, 5% of that 2K (100) get Type 1. 5% of that goes to non-tech. In other words 5 candidates out of 2K get Type 1.

2. SAT/ACT

AFROTC does not superscore. It is the best sitting score.

AFA may have you at 1350, but AFROTC has you at 1280. It isn't a mistake or error. It is also why you will see AFA candidates in your area get an apptmt, but not a scholarship, while you get a scholarship, but not an apptmt.

Your superscore was lower, but sitting was higher.

Good luck to you all.

It is a long yr, and those of us who have lived through it know all you want is to get off the dang gone roller coaster. We also know through experience that for the majority, and I mean @75%, the "all stop" for the ride will not happen until sometime in March.

You can and will look for hints, guidance, etc for clues if it will happen, but in the end of the day, from a poster that has been here for 4 yrs. There are no "true" clues to find. The kid from your state, or even your HS that gets an apptmt does not mean there is no chance for your child. Reason why is they may have only a Presidential nom, and you don't, but you have 2 of 3 MOCs. I.E. you are not competing on the same slate.

In a few weeks Xmas cards from the AFA will be coming out. It is the RD that sends them, not the AFA board. It doesn't mean squat if you get one or if you don't get one regarding chances. It means the AFA RD took the time to send it.

Also understand the RD system. It is region and 1st initial of the last name. There are multiple regions, and multiple RDs for that region. You could be in the same HS, and have 2 different RDs, because your last name is Boo-Boo and theirs is Yogi!

Keep updating your file. Make a plan B. BUT, most importantly enjoy this yr. Come next summer, be it at BCT or at college, this crap will mean nothing. What will mean everything is that one wish... you could have one more...fill in the blank. It is the memories you make now that will sustain you next yr when life stinks. It will be the memory in your mind that you will rely on when they take your phone away, or not allow you to have pics.

 

[Blackbird]

USAFretired1996, I didn't word it well but that was my interpretation. Still WOW and Great!
Congratulations. Glad to see that your and Blackbird's DS and many others hard work payed off even if they did have to go the "5 year route".

Thanks for the clarification USAFretired. You are right on regarding my DS. I am glad that your DS is having the sme opportunity. Regarding the "5 year route" mentioned by Packer, my wife and I are very glad that DS was blessed with the opportunity to better prepare for USAFA and mostly on the dime of the very generous AOG (Association of Graduates).

 

[USAFretired1996]

Thanks for the clarification USAFretired. You are right on regarding my DS. I am glad that your DS is having the sme opportunity. Regarding the "5 year route" mentioned by Packer, my wife and I are very glad that DS was blessed with the opportunity to better prepare for USAFA and mostly on the dime of the very generous AOG (Association of Graduates).

We also are truly grateful for the opportunity the scholarship presents to our son. As Karek pointed out, Falcons usually do well once they get to AFA. I don't know if you've dug deeply on the Falcon Foundation website, but you can see how the Foundation monitors/compares the Falcons against the bottom 20% of kids that got appointments in their year group for the four years they are at AFA. The Foundation wants to ensure that they are getting the biggest bang for their buck and from the statistics, it certainly seems that they are. Hope to see you on Parent's Weekend! Regards.

 

[dagger]

It is the memories you make now that will sustain you next yr when life stinks. It will be the memory in your mind that you will rely on when they take your phone away, or not allow you to have pics.

Your whole post is spot on.

Four years ago when I was a senior in high school most of my time was consumed with college applications and other various scholarship programs I was trying to get involved with. IF I could go back and redo that year I would not have stressed out so much about getting accepted here and there. If it happens, it happens. The only school I didn't get into was a service academy. Anyhow, for those that do get in, the first year of military is a lot harder than that of a cake eating civilian lifestyle. So get your apps done but make sure you have as much fun as possible in your spare time.

And spend as much time as possible with your family. Once you take that oath you won't be seeing them as much as you'd like. (Based on my experience).

EDIT: I find it interesting, that even though you're at the Academy for four years, they don't count it as Active Duty. When I visited the area, it was almost identical to Tech School for enlisted members.

 

[flieger83]

The 4 years at any of the service academies (I can only speak for USMA, USAFA, USNA) because I've seen them in the USC.

The specifically listed the time spent as a cadet or midshipmen as "active duty time" but that it does NOT count for retirement/benefits.

So...while you get a nice little ribbon for 4 years of service after you graduate, it means nothing to you in your career.

NOW...if you move to the AF Reserve (for AF types) and become an "Air Reserve Technician) which is a civilian job with a military requirement...you can "buy back" those years as a cadet into the civilian retirement system.

And it gets a bit convoluted. There are other positions you can take federally that allow you to buy those cadet/mid years back.

But not active duty.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[robinhood17]

With the new scores, according to my usafa counselor I am deemed competitive. She also stated that the letter may have been a mistake in the system, as the letter did not list any scores I have ever earned.

My full stats are (just a glimpse)
Academics:
3.48 unwtd 3.64 wtd
unweighted class rank 35/716, weighted 14/716
620 CR 630 M
ACT 31Math 33Reading 31Science
national honors society
high schools "distinguished student" (group of kids who tutor/counsel underclassmen)

Athletics:

*Varsity Cross country athlete/track field with golden league title
*Lifeguard (didn't know I should put saves, but I have 17,if that matters)
CFA:
mile: 7:08
pushups: 50 (Max)
situps: 95 (Max)
pullups: 5
shuttle 8.4 (Max)
BB throw: 54
I am a female.
* coach little league soccer and baseball

Extracurriculars:
*Gold award (eagle scout equiv),silver and bronze awards/13 years in scouting

*2011 Rose Parade honor girl scout. tournament troop president
*1,900 hours of community service in high school

*Teen spotlight award 2011- outstanding leadership/heroic action (first responder in major traffic accident)

* USNA USAFA summer seminar attendee
* music composition awards at state level (played piano ten years)
* work 20 hours a week as a manager at a local fast food company.

Is there any weaknesses that I am missing that I should fix? One "not competitive letter" is plenty for me...

I really appreciate everyone explaining the process, It helps to know what is counted for my WCS, and I am working hard to improve. As long as I'm serving, I will be ecstatic at any foundation, prep, and academy.

 

[Blackbird]

620 CR 630 M
ACT 31Math 33Reading 31Science

Stephanie, if your ACT English score is in the same range as the rest of your ACT scores then Admissions will use your ACT scores since they are higher than your SAT scores. Here is a conversion chart.

 

[Pima]

May sound like a silly question, but could you be non-comp due to the classes you have taken?

For example, are you short on foreign languages or a lower Math class?

It just seems strange, as Blackbird stated they would be taking your ACT since your composite looks to be a 31, which would convert to @1380.

Your uw gpa and w gpa are low, but I don't know how they weight at your school, nor the point scale. Usually when the uw and the w are this close it means 1 of 2 things or both:
1. Very little weight given for an AP (4.5 scale, not 5.0)
2. You took few APs.

That is why they require the GC also to submit a profile of the school. For example, are you taking the most rigorous course available and percentile breakdown for kids going to college.

How many go Ivy, Private, Public, 2 yr, tech or nothing.

 

[sprog]

The 4 years at any of the service academies (I can only speak for USMA, USAFA, USNA) because I've seen them in the USC.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

One quick note on SA time and Vet. Benefits (not retirement)-I've posted this elsewhere and been met with flaming, but it's the law:

Time as a Cadet/Mid at USNA, USMA, USAFA, and USCGA establishes "veteran status" for the purposes of basic entitlement to VA benefits. VA recognizes the time as active service, but you still must meet the individual requirements for the benefit sought. For example, if you are injured while a cadet at USAFA and have to be discharged, you can file for service connection for the resulting chronic disorders. Veteran status is established in 38 USC 1965. Also, if you do two years at USXA, then quit, you could still file for service connection for any chronic disability that occurred in those two years of service. This includes acquired psychiatric illnesses as well as physical disorders. You can debate whether it should be entitled or not, I'm just reporting the law.

FYI, time at USMMA does not count.

(1) The term “active duty” means—
(A) full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for training;
(B) full-time duty (other than for training purposes) as a commissioned officer of the Regular or Reserve Corps of the Public Health Service;
(C) full-time duty as a commissioned officer of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; and
(D) full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy.

 

[Packer]

With the new scores, according to my usafa counselor I am deemed competitive. She also stated that the letter may have been a mistake in the system, as the letter did not list any scores I have ever earned.

She is competitive according to this post.