spring sport? risk of injury?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by carroll32, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. carroll32

    carroll32 Member

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    Im debating as to whether or not i should compete on my rugby team this year. I received a scholarship to my number one choice private school and im afraid of being injured and losing my scholarship.

    During this fall i broke my ankle and missed out on my whole senior year of football and was out for 15 weeks. This made me want to play rugby more but it also made me realize the reality of injuries. Especially since the two years i've played two people have suffered long term injuries, both are able to run again but still healing.

    Advice? is anyone else in a similar situation?

    thank you
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    That's a tough one.

    First, you mentioned you broke your ankle in the Fall, have you been listed as qualified through Dodmerb and cleared from the ankle break through Dodmerb.

    You didn't mention which ROTC you received your scholarship, not that it matters when considering Dodmerb and injuries. Is you scholarship a 4 year or 3 year, I'm referencing Army with that one. The important thing to remember is getting contracted, if you are injured prior to contracting you will need to be cleared through Dodmerb before you can contract. If you are contracted and then you get injured you will remain on your scholarship until you are cleared, in a case wher you can't get cleared then you are medically disenrolled from the program. They will do all they can to get you cleared again, the key is being contracted.

    If you get hurt during Rugby and the injury has a long recovery time it could risk your scholarship.

    The decision will be yours to make, the only thing I can say is to weigh your options. One thing to remember, and this is comming from an old Football Player, when you play with the fear of getting an injury, that seems to be the time you get injured, you second guess every move you make.

    Rugby by it's nature is a tough sport filled wilth injury, it seems like they think your not giving 100% unless you do get injured.

    In the end you'll have to decide what is important to you, no one expects cadets to wrap themselves in bubble wrap. There will be plenty of activities during college and ROTC that can lead to an injury. Just remember the brass ring, at least for Army ROTC is getting contracted, if your injured prior to reporting to school it could delay or even end your chance of getting contracted.

    Like I said, it's a tough decision. Good Luck
     
  3. LEWAF

    LEWAF Member

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    Thats a really tough decision and I wish you the best of luck in making it. I'm in Air Force ROTC and I know injury plays a huge role as to whether or not you will advance, especially in your sophomore year. I wanted to go skydiving, and filled out all the forms to do so (with, I later found out, the extreme reluctance of my cadre; I could break a bone, and sophmore year it would mean dis-enrollment)
    Long story short, I didnt even get to go do the jump because the weather was bad. But what I took away from it was the words from my Colonel. You have to weigh your college experiences with your future in ROTC. You aren't expected to throw away a college life, but you also aren't expected to put yourself at risk and throw away your chance of getting, in our case, an Enrollment Allocation.
    I'm not going to tell you to decide one way or another, do what you want to do. You can hurt yourself walking to school or get hurt playing Rugby, its just how life works.
     
  4. carroll32

    carroll32 Member

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    Thank you for the response

    I received a 4-yr army ROTC scholarship to clarify. Also my ankle was cleared by DODMERB, everything is set in motion at the moment. Another situation i was considering is that i have been offered a spot on the ranger challenge team, even if i kept my scholarship i wouldn't want to miss out on that opportunity.

    My friend who is on the team and received a 3-yr has decided he is going to play, at the moment I think i am leaning towards not playing but it is a wrenching decision for me. I plan on talking with my coaches tonight, one is a former ranger who also played for the army rugby team.
     
  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Your lucky in one respect, the scholarship is a 4 year which means if you pass the APFT on day one you will contract right away. Unlike the Air Force there is no EA that you have to compete for. Since you will be contracted early you will have the opportunity to participate in school sports as well as ROTC teams. There have been cadets that have been injured in my son's battalion including my son, since they were already contracted they were given the time to heal. Keep in mind though, if you have an injury even after being contracted that prevents you from passing the APFT during the semester they may give you a certain amount of time to recover but if you can't pass the APFT during that semester the Army will not pay your scholarship for that semester.

    Keep the big picture in mind. Good luck in whatever you decide.
     
  6. Jodie

    Jodie Member

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    Very tough call. Question is whether or not the activity is worth the risk.

    If your talking about playing football for your college, you should play. If your talking about a travel team or club team, then absolutely not.

    I gave up boxing when I was a cadet. It broke my heart, but I never regretted it.
     
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Keep in mind that your friend with the three year has an additional year to recover and get cleared by DoDMERB. You don't. Good Luck. This is a tough one.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with Jodie regarding playing as a recruited athlete.

    I am not inferring you should become the boy in a plastic bubble, I am stating that you need to start weighing pro's and cons.

    DS has played intramural soccer and ultimate frisbee at his college for four yrs. He just has learned to balance his testosterone level to the point that winning does not matter in the big picture for him, walking away uninjured does.

    I would also say as a sr., think about when you were a jr. It may be best to step away and allow the next generation to shine. You got your dream, you understand how important athletic participation is for scholarships, and how teams change every yr. Maybe you will be giving a gift to the HS by stepping out and allowing them to groom your replacement who will be there for 2 more yrs.
     
  9. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    That is an important point. When you as a 4 Yr. Awardee report in the Fall, if you are medically DQ, you cannot sign your Scholarship Cadet Contract, which means your Award is invalidated. No grace period, no waiting. At that point you participate as a non-contracted MSI, and hope for an in-college scholarship Award at the end of your 1st semester, 2nd Semester, etc. Can you pay for college that year without an AROTC scholarship?

    Another point: Practically everybody I know who has played Rugby, even as a Club Sport, sustains some sort of injury -- concussion, separated shoulder, broker wrist/arm/leg, severley sprained ankle, torn ACL, broken ribs, broken jaw, broken teeth, etc. For every injury in basketball, wrestling, baseball, etc, there are probably 3 in football, 3 in Lacrosse, and 10 in Rugby. Rugby probably has more injuries per participant than mixed martial arts or motocross.

    So, yeah, it's your decision. Weigh the benefits of participating against the risk of losing your scholarship award.

    Increasingly in professional sports, the Contracts the athletes sign prohibit them from participating in sports deemed of high risk of injury. One of those is motorcross, another is pick-up basketball games, etc. You might want to consider yourself, at this point in time, contracted to the Army. Though the Army does not have clauses it its contract prohibiting you from participating in high risk sports, you might want to consider that an oversight :), and follow the lead of professional sports teams in protecting their investment in their players' healthy bodies. Or consider buying insurance through Lloyd's of London to pay off in the event you injure youself and invalidate your Contract and Career (well, that is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but the point is you, just like an athlete, have a lot to lose in the event of a serious injury).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  10. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Dunn, this is a question I have intended to ask sometime before DS (AROTC 4 yr) shows up for sophomore year. Things are going so well for him that I haven't been thinking sownsides much lately. If he were to be medical DQed for non-ROTC related injury, must he repay everything or simply leave the program?

    Sorry, I am too lazy to search forum for answer and too anxious to wait until I get home and look at his contract.
     
  11. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    we discussed this here about six months ago. As I recall (don't shoot me if I'm wrong), even if a Cadet injures him/herself in a supervised PT drill, or FTX, or an AROTC intramural team, or LDAC, if the injury DQs the cadet from the program, the Army decides whether the cadet needs to repay the amount the Army has invested, or enlist (I assume this wouldn't work if the injury DQs the cadet), or is let go free and clear.

    Here is the Scholarship Cadet Contract. http://www.missouristate.edu/assets/milcsi/DA597_3_Scholarship_Cadet_Contract.pdf See page 6, #5. It speaks of "disenrollment", and that would include for being physically unable to remain in the program.

    Page 3, #2, section f states that a cadet must continuosuly maintain physical standards for participating... so the implication is that an injury that prevents a cadet from partipating and/or passing the APFT would violate the contract. We have read reports on this Board of Battalions giving cadets plentyof time to recuperate, but if an injury leads to a medical DQ, recuperation isn't an option, and disenrollment ensues. With disenrollment comes the section (p. 6, #5) about reimbursement or enlistment.

    Well, that's how I interpret that Contract. The same situation holds at USMA, but I don't know, and haven't read much here, about whether they let the cadet go free and clear, or require reimbursement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Traditionally no he doesn't have to repay, but if he decides to run with the Bulls in Spain and gets gored, they may say he pushed the limit.

    The issue isn't so much about re-payment while in college for many, but the factor that many need the scholarship to remain at the college from a fiscal perspective for 2 or 3 more yrs.

    Look at the OP, if he gets injured in June to the point he needs a new DoDMERB physical, one that may require a waiver, he will not be able to contract in Sept.

    Colleges don't mess around with tuition. For both of our children spring registration started in late Oct., and if it wasn't paid up they "locked" the account. Colleges will know that he is contracted and will not lock, but for the OP if he is injured, and is not contracted, they will lock. That means coming up with a chunk of change for them to register.
     
  13. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Thanks for the fast response.

    I can definitely understand why the army would leave it fuzzy.

    I guess this spring break will be his last chance to ski until after commissioning.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    NO, he can continue to ski for the rest of his life.

    Just make sure he isn't doing double daffies off the mt patrol shack!

    I do not have enough fingers and toes on my body, plus my families body to count how many Officers that I know who ski.

    Chiemsee in Germany would not have existed if that was the mentality. Elmendorf has a ski slope on base to this day.

    Honestly as someone who skied for 16 yrs it would be more dangerous if he stopped for 4 yrs and started again after commissioning.

    Common sense is all that is needed.
     
  15. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    I am sorry to belabor the point. You need to understand, DS looooooves what he's doing and wouldn't do anything to jepardize his situation. However, it is one thing to be released, and another thing to be released and owe $10k's.

    I'll suggest he take up quilting. :wink:
     
  16. carroll32

    carroll32 Member

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    I just wanted to thank you for your replies, though its hard i think im going to sit out this season, because i don't want to jepordize my true goals. Thanks for giving me points to think about, since i wont be competing in college i think the best decision is to play it safe. I'll keep in shape, and still enjoy myself, but i'll keep it to hiking and fishing this spring/summer instead of rugby and mountain biking. all of you who have to make a simalar decision i wish you luck in whatever you decide.
     
  17. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Tore my shoulder, broke my wrist and destroyed my finger playing high school sports. I have no clue how I passed the DoDMERB, but even though I was cleared there isn't a day that goes by during PT that some previously broken part of my body doesn't hurt. Don't risk it. I dropped college lacrosse partly in fear of getting injured again.
     
  18. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Better get used to that as it won't be going away!
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I wanted to comment on the above, there are some grey areas when it comes to a DQ.

    If the cadet is still DQ'd but waiting on a waiver when they report for the first year of school they do not have the scholarship taken away, there is a grace period, they have until the last day of the first semester to get the waiver approved, if it is approved the scholarship is paid for that semester. The cadet does not receive any stipend while waiting for the waiver or book money. If the waiver is approved before the end of the semester they usually get the book money as well.

    If a cadet gets an injury of any kind while they are a contracted cadet they have the they do not lose the scholarship unless it is an injury that permanently DQ's them. The cadet will need to be able to pass the APFT during that semester.

    One of the reasons there are end of camp commissions at LDAC is that the cadet had an injury that kept them from going to LDAC the summer after their Junior year. If the cadet is injured they have that cadet attend LDAC at the end of their senior year and graduation. The cadet is not dropped from the program or lose the scholarship unless the injury is a permanent DQ.

    If a cadet is injured while participating in an AROTC function such as LDAC, FTX, the Army/Navy football game and they are injured to the extent that they can't get a waiver they will be disenrolled but will not be required to pay back the scholarship or enlist. A MS4 cadet broke his ankle this year, he even had surgery, he is now back to strength and will commission with his class, he did not lose and funds during this time and was not cut loose from the program. Luckily the injury was in the first semester so he is able to pass the APFT now for commissioning. A cadet 2 years ago had an injury during the final year, he was able to heal and pass the physical but not until after the graduation and commissioning date of mid May, he commissioned in July. Like I said there are grey areas and each case is different.

    A cadet at my son's battalion started school with a DQ from Dodmerb and awaiting a waiver. The waiver came through in November, he signed his contract and the scholarship paid the first semester tuition and books, the only thing he lost was the stipend for the months he was waiting for the waiver.

    If you have a Dodmerb DQ and are a 4 year scholarship cadet and the DQ is so severe that you can't get a waiver it becomes a moot point because you would never make it past the basic course and sign a contract anyway.

    The point is, if you have a DQ and are waiting for a waiver you will not lose the scholarship flat out. There is a grace period, usually the first semester to get the waiver approved.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  20. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Thanks to all. I can digest my lunch now.

    This is good example of a USEFUL thread.
     

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