"Stop-Loss" to End

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Just_A_Mom, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/ap_stop_loss_031809/

    This has to make a lot of people happy, though it can't come soon enough. Folks, this is just another example of Uncle Sam breaking contracts with those who are sacrificing for their country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  2. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't read the whole article or the whole Stop Loss law but, did they only use the inactive reserve portion of enlistment contracts or was it enforced after the inactive portion?

    BTW TPG, I had almost the same situation with the Marine Corps too!!! I lost my so called guaranteed "Avionics" MOS to grunt after boot camp with a BS slip up of school dates. I also had to fight to adjust my 5 year active duty commitment required for the Avionics! It changed my career plans real quick!
     
  3. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    Stop Loss is enforced after the terms of the contract have expired.

    For Instance - tpg signed a contract for 4 years AD and 4 years Reserves and yes subject to being called to AD while in the Reserves. Currently a soldier with such a contract would serve 4 years AD and then held for 4 more years AD - prevented from going into the Reserves, essentially. THEN when the Reserve commitment is over - after the 8 years, Stop lossed.
    Stop loss is also used to prevent soldiers from retirement.
    Being held or called up from the Reserves or IRR is not stop loss and another issue.

    I think the Army is the only branch that has enforced Stop Loss.
     
  4. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes Received:
    301
    I think this is a huge morale issue and will go over really well in the Army. I think that it was resented a lot, especially as the need to resort to stop loss didn't lessen over time. As long as he didn't eliminate the legal means to do this in an emergency -where you certainly can imagine temporary or limited situations where it might be necessary- then I'm all for it. Good for Secretary Gates.
     
  5. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not to be incendiary but, I remember the stories of my Grandfather meeting his daughter (my mother) for the first time when she was 4 years old during World War II after he came home from the Pacific theater. I'm just saying....
     
  6. oldgrad

    oldgrad Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great observation on the SIXTH anniversary of the war in Iraq. Maybe the next administration faced with similar challenges will be more receptive to the exit concerns of the military leaders.
     
  7. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for pointing that out OG.

    BTW, what anniversary are the troops on in WW II Germany in 2009?
     
  8. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes Received:
    301
    Not quite sure where a couple of these posts are going, but if someone were extrapolating experiences in WWII - when virtually all of the able bodied young men in the country between 18-30 were liable to be, if not actually in, uniform for the duration to that of the current force to justify the use of stop loss, then I would say that would be pretty far out of touch with the reality of what the Stop Loss program has done in the Army and Army Reserve/ National Guard.
    The perception of Stop Loss has been that its been applied in what has widely been seen as a pretty arbitrary way and often for convenience as opposed to any immediate critical operational necessity- (those who have been affected aren't just in unique little MOS's that have a tiny population of soldiers in them- these are most often combat arms MOS's). What's the effect been? Well just imagine you've done your obligated service or are ready to retire, and now you have arranged for a job or school. Suddenly your ETS is frozen and you are deploying yet again to a combat zone- meanwhile your opportunity on the outside vanishes while your peers on the outside continue merrily on with their lives. Meanwhile Uncle Sam until this week - didn't even attempt to compensate you any extra for your trouble. This was a bad application of a program that exists for immediate expansion of the available force in an emergency- but it's been more than 7 years since it first started getting applied in a widespread manner which really has irritated much of the force- it's well time that it disappeared.
     
  9. J Collins

    J Collins Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    2
    Younger then 18... and the government knows it..
    for i.e. (I have also heard many stories similar) MY father grew up outside of Chicago... in early 1944 he ran away from his family's home in Palatine and headed into the city. He tried to enlist in the US NAVY... ooops he was to young, there was no way his father would sign the papers,so my dad found an old drunk on the street and traded his signature for my dad's suit. My uncle did a similar thing when he later enlisted ...

    People were different back then, society as a whole.. they worked hard and werent afraid to work harder. They gave until they had nothing more to give, they loved our country and its leaders. Americans then were a tougher bunch of people, immigrants that wanted a great place for their kids and their kids.... Today its not the same, but I hope that the next generation coming up remembers the stories of their grandparents and great grandparents...
     
  10. oldgrad

    oldgrad Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Highest desertion rate in the modern US Army...........

    Only 10% of those in actual combat fired their weapons.............

    Maybe time changes the perception of reality.

    I am doing some research which involves searching the WWII era local newspaper. Strikes, price gouging, etc etc. I wasn't all rosy. a complete eye opener. One particular article in late Dec 1944 really caught my eye, DDE totally lambasting the private sector for not getting behind the war effort.
     
  11. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0

    Great post!

    We do live in a completely different America today yet there is still hope, I see it everyday with the young people I see at the recruiting station and JROTC units we visit.

    I wonder what "stop loss" would be called during a draft era military? lol
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    Maximus - The WWII draft begain Jan 1942. The war was over in late 1945 - not even 4 years long.

    I ask you - how much is "enough"? In a war that is six years old - how much are our young people expected to VOLUNTEER of their lives? When a recruit signs up for a 4 year contract, does another 4 in the Reserves (which is supposed to be part time) as Active duty and is then held - is that NOT enough?
    After a soldier has already served 20 years and been deployed 3 or 4 times to combat - is that not enough?
    How many deployments is enough? 2,3,4,5?

    Our young servicemen and women should be commended for VOLUNTEERING to serve and after their volunteer service is through we should not be condemning them for wanting their freedom.
    We are jumping from one war to another - countless young people have given up their youth. They have not been able to have a relationship, home or family.

    We need to support the troops in everyway, on the battlefield and off. Everyone who supports our men and women in uniform should be pleased that the Army is finally eliminating Stop Loss, at least for now.
     
  13. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lets see, today we have a total volunteer military and back during the big one, WW II, the one where someone said almost ~all 18 to 30 year olds in America were in for the duration, yet, 66% of those men were drafted and we only had a desertion rate of about 63 in a 1,000 during 1944?

    I found some great stats at this site oldgrad, might help with your study:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/military_desertion_rates_and_t.html
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    I am lost. What is your point, Maximus?
    A desertion rate of 63/1000 is quite high. Much Higher than the rate during Vietnam.
    The desertion rate this decade has been less than 10/1000.

    But this isn't about desertion rates and I don't know how the Stop Loss issue has anything to do with WWII.
     
  15. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    ???

    ???

    Interesting how you insinuate that ~all Soldiers in the war are being held by the Stop Loss policy, a 1990 Executive order too BTW. Typical tactic but the actual number is about 13,000 men and then, you dare ask me how much is needed as if I was the "hated Donald Rumsfeld" forcing these people into this situation personally because you perceive my political bent as Conservative? I say it's enough till they start up a draft and we had commitment from all Americans.
     
  16. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0

    You're at a loss because I wasn't writing to you had you noticed the quote to USNA69.

    I know what the rates were, I posted them but thanks for reciting them.
     
  17. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh and BTW, I think halting the stop loss at this time, is a good thing :thumb:
     
  18. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct, I think it will be used again when need arises. The only thing to stop it would be a draft.

    I can't find anything giving the actual law description on the cursory searches I've done but, I do know George H.W. Bush's Orders started the first one during the Gulf War.

    Again, I think it's time to call off the Stop Loss Policy especially since Obama has announced the end of the war in Iraq. I wonder if he'll use Stop Loss in Afghanistan?

    From an AP article:
    "Congress first gave stop-loss authority to the military after the Vietnam War, when the Pentagon faced difficulty in replacing departing combat soldiers. The Pentagon didn't use the authority until 1990, during the buildup to the Persian Gulf War. All four service branches have issued stop-loss orders since then. The Pentagon issued stop- loss orders in November 2002 for Reserve and National Guard units activated for the war against terrorism. The orders remain in effect. A stop loss was issued for active troops in February 2003, but rescinded in May 2003."
     
  19. oldgrad

    oldgrad Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread has taken more twists and turns than an East Tennessee driveway. Not sure what politics has to do with it. Also, not sure why it is necessary to denigrate the meddle of today’s soldier by attempting to negatively compare him to his WWII grandfather.

    Why can’t we just accept it for what it is, a great morale booster for our Army brethren? It doesn’t matter if it affects 13 or 13,000. If only a single soldier, the possibility then exists that it can affect everyone. Morale is destroyed. Anyone who has ever spent a single day in the military knows that taking away a soldier’s calendar is tantamount to totally destroying his morale. They all know that exact days down to the hour for their next leave, the end of their current deployment, and the termination of their enlistment. It is a coping mechanism. They can control something if it is only the number of days left. I love short timer's calendars. Heck, even the SA chow calls contain the days remaining to all pertinent events. They are trained early.

    Previous implementation has been for very short periods. Now, it has been going on for 7 years.

    This is a great announcement. Just treat it for what it is. A major recruiting and retention bonus.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  20. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree oldgrad as I can surly remember "how many days and a wake up" before any event while I was in the military. We lived for it but, you'll have to admit that in a time of war, it's a necessary evil when deploying men during any type of war, skirmish or police action without a draft.

    None of the military's business is people friendly when you get down to brass tacks. imvho
     

Share This Page