Story on increasing ROTC enrollment numbers

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by bruno, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I thought last year on this site alone, I saw alot more kids getting rejected or lower $ scholarships, which was a big cluse to me that the ROTC scholarship apps had gone up.
     
  3. s1732

    s1732 Member

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    How many 4 year scholarships are given out each year? Where would I look to find that type of information? Thanks!
     
  4. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Only for Air Force and Navy, not for Army.
    It's all about supply and demand. The AF and Navy are much smaller services and the demand for Jr Officer's is not nearly as great as for Army.

    There is money available for nearly every, if not every qualified applicant for an Army ROTC scholarship.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    JAM, there is a flaw in your premise. The Army having all of those funds, means that their retention rate is very low compared to the AF and Navy.

    The AF and Navy are indeed smaller, thus their budget is too.

    The only thing all 3 have in common is that there is a mandate on Company Grade (JO's) to field grade and field grade to flag. They do long term strategic planning which means they know how many JOs they need to keep the ratio between company and field in proper balance.e. In the 90's that is why they hit the class of 85, 86 because they know the ratio was off since they were huge commission yrs. Also it explains why promotion boards have sped up, because when times were good, the Sr Capt declined the promotion, or the young major at 12 yrs signed their papers to leave, because their ratio was shot again and the boards needed to speed up. Our very best friends AFA grads 80/81/82, met 0-4 at 12-13 yrs, Bullet met at 11, now it runs around 9-10. The AF and Navy probably have more JOs retained since flying committment is 8 yrs from UPT graduation or winged.

    If that is not the issue, then the other issue would be why the sister services are running out of money and the Army is not? I.E. low recruitment retention for the Army. I am not trying to slam the Army, but you need to explain why they have tons of money left, but the sister services have now resorted to 2K scholarships because they have too many applicants.


    I can't find the site again, but there was an AFROTC site for 2008, that showed the median scores for applicants and the median for recipients.

    Te median ACT was 27. The recipient was 29.

    The point is they may say that here is what you need, but the reality is that the recipients are much higher than the min. The median of applicants was 1280 SAT, the median for recipients was 1380. This is out of 1600. Thus, this goes back to the fact that the majority of SA applicants apply.

    FWIW every ROTC cadet should join the branch they want, because the committment is a pact with the devil :rolleyes: Don't join AROTC because they have more funding, afterall I am pretty sure they don't have subs, and I am positive they don't have the 35! Also don't go NROTC/AFROTC if you want to drive a tank or jump out of a perfectly good airplane, you will be sad until the committment is completed...5 yrs after grad is a long time
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Here are some statistical facts
    The AF has not yet to achieve 80% for majors, thus the retention is still higher even at the field grade line, which means the company grade must be smaller, and that means less scholarships available because they stay pass their committment.

    FWIW I have never heard of 100% promotion to major, and 90% to LtCol for AF. I believe the highest promotion rate in the AF is 95% to Capt. Capt to Major is much much lower. In Bullets year it was 65%, however, I believe it is at the 70%, not 100%. Major to LtC in his yr group was 60% . P and DP matter...LITS referred to that a couple of days ago.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  7. sealion

    sealion Member

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    Geez, Pima. Good posts as always! :smile:

    Especially that advice.

    Just to clarify. For ROTC - it's 4 active and 4 reserve isn't it? 8 from winging for naval aviators - all active? I don't know what the sub commitment is. Is that correct?
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Honestly I can't answer Navy or Army committments, but for AF it is 8 yrs from "winging" we call it pinning on (like a promotion). HOWEVER, You could be a SR with a pilot slot, but before you graduate it is changed to 9. You will owe 9. For the AF this happened in the early 90's, they went from 8 to 9 and back to 8. Those that went through UPT at the 9 owed 9, a few weeks later a new class came in and owed 8. It is all about strategic planning. They will be able to bail out the same time as the 9.
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    PIMA - there is a flaw in your premise -
    Perhaps it means that the ARMY is expanding. More troops = more need for Jr Officers. Remember the surge? Now they are adding 20,000 more troops.
    That said, the retention rate for the Army is probably less than Navy or AF - for a variety of reasons. More and more Jr officers ARE being promoted ahead of schedule and have been for years now, no secret here.

    First of all. Dont' go acting like I make up stuff.
    Take a day off, go to the Army ROTC unit at your nearest college - pick one anyone. Johns Hopkins, UMD, doesn't matter.
    Talk to the enrollment officer and ask how many cadets were qualified for a scholarship and turned down for lack of money.
    Come back and tell me about the conversation.

    There are so many different programs in the Army that through ROTC there is a way to get money - either through Cadet Command, the Guard or Reserves.

    Don't put words in my mouth - I never said nor never will say that someone who is turned down for a Navy or AF scholarship should apply for Army. That is up to them to decide. Fact is many of those who are turned down would indeed receive an Army scholarship.


    @sealion -
    ARMY = Sort of ---- This is true upon commissioning for a 4 year scholarship and without ADSO .
    Those who get a 3 year scholarship have a 3 year AD commitment. Some cadets will convert their AROTC scholarships to GRFD or SMP scholarships and go Guard or Reserves and serve their commitment there.
    Anything extra, like flight school or med school adds commitment time onto the original contract.
     

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