Stumped: US Navy Rifle and Pistol Qual for KP Mids

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by bearhunter66, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. bearhunter66

    bearhunter66 Member

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    DS interested in USNavy Rifle and Pistol qualification. I pointed him to Naval Sciences who indicated mids are eligible but no support is available at KP.

    I did some digging and found the SMALL ARMS TRAINING AND QUALIFICATIONS from Office of CNO and pointed DS to call the Command Career Counselor at Naval Weapons Station Earle which is a stones throw from KP. Figured they could point him in the right direction if they did not have the instructors/range on-site.

    Any other ideas or suggestions?

    BH
     
  2. beyond

    beyond KπΣ15'

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    Why does he want/need it? I doubt any of the MSC schools will take you unless you have the need to qual, in which case your employer will set it up.
     
  3. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    This is a far more complicated issue than it appears and unless you can get in with someone already doing it, I wouldn't waste my time or effort. Even if a base has the instructors and range on site, it is a major Pain in the A if you do not have a demonstrated requirement for the training ... I used to have nightmares about OPNAVINST 3591. I will never understand why the Navy is so weapon adverse. I can't tell you how many times I heard "did you think this was the Marines or something!" I wouldn't waste my time with MSC courses. They are geared toward CIVMARs and half of the class is a filling time so they can say they went to a week long class.

    I would suggest contacting the local NOSCs (Navy Operational Support Center, former known as Reserve Center). There is one in the Bronx and one on the island (I think Farmingdale?). Try and hook up with one of the units there who qualifies as part of their duties (I know there are a few). They will have the process down and DS may be able to just show up when they are doing their annual qualifications and shoot with them. I used to let our NOSC XO tag along when my unit was doing our annual quals. It helped grease the admin skids for my sailors. I suggest finding an NSF unit that has Law Enforcement duties ... the Police qualification course is way more fun than the basic qual course.

    Upon receiving a passing score, DS should ask that the unit issue him a "page 13", officially Form NAVPERS 1070/613 - Administrative Remarks reflecting his score. They should be doing this for all their members so one more form should not be an issue for them. The specific score is important as it is the difference between qualifying as "Marksman" "Sharpshooter" or "Expert" and if any appurtanance/medal is authorized. DS should then take that to Naval Science for entry into his official record. No ribbon/medal should be worn until all the paperwork is complete.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  4. bearhunter66

    bearhunter66 Member

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    KPE,
    Many thanks. I will pass this option onto him tomorrow as DS has instructed me that Calc takes priority.

    BH


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  5. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    This is probably going to end up being more of a budget issue than anything. Especially with dollars getting shorter and shorter, things like ammo get very scarce. A unit using some of their ammo allotment for Mids might not be something they want to do when they are trying to figure out how to get their own sailors qualed. Heck even during the height of the war I was turned away from the rifle range because they were short on ammo. My T/O weapon was a .9 mil, not a rifle, but Marine Corps order stated that I had to fire the rifle. I was exempt for that year instead. Law Enforcement guys do shoot different courses of fire, but if you haven't fired yet for qual recommend someone to start there, learn the basics, then move to more advanced stuff. I hope it works out for them.
     
  6. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Budget can be definitely be a big deal and rifle is much harder to get range time for than pistol. Even if a unit says no, keep asking. They may not be able to have him with them that next shoot, but there may be space for him at the next one. Also, some units are allotted a certain amount of ammo each fiscal year and its easier to shoot it all off, than give it back so he may not be able to get in with them in April, but he can in September. It all just depends.
     
  7. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Range time, instructors time and money.

    Range time: There will be units and folks who NEED to get range time, to either use firearms or be qualified to carry them. They'll get the first look. The range at the base I was pseudo-attached to was booked almost around the clock. When they weren't running recruits through, they were running LE units or small boat crews or boarding teams through.

    Instructors time: You need someone to actually run you through the course, and that person is usually engaged with the stuff above.

    Money: If a unit has a finite amount of money to throw at ammo.... it's going to go to the guys who need it before it goes to the guys who want it.

    I got pistol and rifle qualified at the Coast Guard Academy. I had to get requalified at my first unit. And when we switched from M-9s to Sig40s we have to get requalified again. Typically the guys who were on the range were the ones who needed the qualification, but now and then, someone showed up who was interested in doing boardings. It's hard to get time if the reason is "I want ribbons or I really want to shoot" but if there was an operational reason...."I want to be on our ship's boarding team" it could be done.
     

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