Superintendent's Nomination

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by futurepilot22, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I received LOAs to my second and third choice academies. My MOCs would only let me choose one academy to apply for each, and I decided to do the "smart thing" and split my applications between these two that I received LOAs for. I received the noms, and now have apppointments. How likely is it that I could receive a VP or Superintendent's Nomination to my top choice academy?
     
  2. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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  3. jscam87

    jscam87 Member

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    Congrats on your Appointments. The reason nobody has offered an opinion is that there is no possible way to give you odds or numbers or percentages for getting into your top choice Academy, whatever it is. You put the 'smart thing' in quotes, as if you now regret it. Again, there is no way to respond. In my state, there were over 600 applicants for a Senate USNA Nomination. The MOC's coordinate here (as it sounds like yours do) but if you ask they, they will tell you about the large Navy crowd and the low chances of getting a USNA Nom. Other states probably have similar numbers for different Academies.
    In a made up example, you would be very smart to allot your Noms to the other LOA Academies since you would (example) never get the USNA Nom here (example).
    You have multiple LOAs, which is great. It sounds like you are competitive. There is no way for anyone on the forum to know how that will play with your top choice school. Your Liaison should be able to help.
    The only thing I would encourage you NOT to do is to OFFER to decline a Nom or LOA to SHOW the number 1 school how serious you are. Those things are not connected. The number 1 school doesn't care about the other schools, and the other schools will be glad to know your lack of interest (and the Noms have a slim possibility to be reassigned).
    Again, congrats on the Appointments. It sounds like you have some great options for school. Good Luck.
     
  4. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I put "smart thing" in quotes just to kind of emphasize it. I would still do the exact same thing again in the same situation, given I was assured appointments from the two schools provided I get the nominations, while my top choice offered no such assurance. Thanks for your advice.
     
  5. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    I thought no one was answering because they'd be telling you what you don't want to hear, which is that most likely there's a VERY low chance that you'll now get your number one choice without a nomination there. There is only one VP nom per school per year (approximately), plus that and the supe's noms are far more likely to be used for someone who had an LOA and was unable to get a nom from their MOC, than for someone who didn't ask for that nom in the first place (at least as a first choice).

    My son has a friend in a very similar situation (LOA's to his #2 & 3 schools), but he did what I think was a "smarter" thing and asked for noms from the two options (his senators won't duplicate) for his #1 and 2 schools. So now he has the sure thing (appointment since he got the nom) to his number 2, but at least has a nom to #1 to give him a chance on the slate/wait list, or wherever.

    I don't know where you are (or how competitive it is), but in some places it might be possible to call whoever you got the #3 nom from and ask about switching it to your #1 school. Without the nom, I really don't think you have a chance. Either way, you'd still have your backup, which is all you have right now really. I do realize that in many states/districts this would not be possible. We're not in a competitive area, and while I know my son couldn't call his senators, I'd bet if he called his congressman's office and asked them to put him on his #3 choice, it wouldn't be a problem (he only asked for 2).

    Sorry to be negative, but that's the way I see it from following these boards for a year! Definitely not an expert though, so hopefully it could work out for you and I wish you the best of luck!
     
  6. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I am in an extremely competitive area, for all the academies, and there is no way it would be possible to switch the nominations. Thanks for your advice. Not that it really matters, but given the very low number of LOAs that are issued, do you really think that there are 50 (number of Superintendent noms) LOA candidates who failed to receive even one nomination? Especially considering the service-connected (Presidential, I think) nominations that many of them likely qualified for? I find that hard to believe. Not that I think that fact means I have a good chance, but I'm just saying...I have a hard time believing that ALL of the superintendent and VP noms will be used on LOA candidates. Honestly, I don't think it'd even be close. Of course, what do I know? FYI....yeah, I think what your son did is smarter than what I did, wish I had thought to do that...
     
  7. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    Incidentally, it was one of my son's friends, not him. My son kind of did it the other way. His #1 he was sure was #1 and even though he had an LOA to his #2, he still listed 1 as 1 on all his MOC applications. Luckily he got an LOA to #1 in the meantime, but he was willing to try everything he could to get that first choice. If you don't feel that strongly about your first choice, then it may not make as much difference.

    I just see the biggest problem in your situation as being that nowhere does it show that your first choice is actually your first choice. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds to me like you told your MOC's that you wanted 2 and 3 (or 3 and 2) first. So if by chance school 1 looks to see why you didn't happen to get a nom, and finds out that you said to the MOCs that your first choices were 2 and 3 and sees that you have appointments to 2 and 3 - well, I don't see what motivates them to give you the Supe's nom.

    I'm sure you realize that there are a lot of people WITH noms who won't even receive appointments. My LOA scenario was just an example, but for every 10 people with noms (on one slate), technically only one of those will get an appointment. Each nom has to be charged to someone, so if they go to a competitive slate from a senator (say NY or CA), the top 5+ people on that slate may be very qualified. And already have a nom (from that senator), but they can't all be charged to him. So that's where some of those Supe's noms may come in as well. Many times you see people saying their senator (again, competitive areas) had 8 of the 10 people on their slate actually get appointments. Those noms had to be charged somewhere and I think 50 is a very low number when you look at the number of high quality slates out there.

    Again, I'm not trying to be negative and know this sounds harsh, and I'm certainly not the expert here, but my thought is the #1 academy will say "if you didn't care enough to try to get the nom here for you, why should we?"

    Edited to add one more thing about the LOA's. Most LOA recipients (as you said) most likely WILL get a nom - but again, it only has to be one of those 10. In a competitive area, more than one person on a slate may have an LOA or there may be more qualified people (in the MOC's opinion) than the LOA (that he could give a principal nom to). In that case, the LOA's must be charged somewhere for the appointment, even though they already have a nom (met the requirement). My understanding was that was where most of the Supe's noms went.
     
  8. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I informed my liaison this morning about the situation, so the academy knows that they are my first choice, and that I did not receive a nomination to their academy. So, I don't think (hopefully) my motivation will be an issue. And concerning the "8 out of 10" situation you mentioned...isn't it very likely most (if not all) of those applicants received representative's nominations?
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    futurepilot22 - Here is a little unsolicited advice going forward. I think you need to contact your admissions officer or rep (ALO/BGO/MALO) at your first choice academy to which you do not have a nomination or LOA. Be proactive and make contact.
    Be forthright and honest - make it clear this is your first choice school. Honestly, if you received an LOA to one academy you most likely will be very competitive to the others (with few exceptions).
    A little secret -
    (Admissions sometimes can go to bat for you with your MOC. The entire slate of 10 is not going to be appointed. Some may be medically DQ'd, some may choose another academy. After they get the slate - admissions can go back and ask the MOC if they would make an alteration based on attrition. This doesn't always work - but sometimes it does.)

    Also know that if your first choice academy can't offer you an appointment for lack of a nomination they can offer you a prep scholarship. This would require an extra year on your part but it's been done and I know of kids who have turned down appointments for prep.

    Get busy - chase your first choice school and show them the *love*!

    Edit - we cross-posted. Good first step. keep in contact.
     
  10. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    I believe in most competitive states, the senators and representatives try not to duplicate nominations. In the cases I've seen, people have been talking about that being the only nom they had for that academy.
     
  11. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Okay . . . here's my take. And I can only speak for USNA; I have no idea how the other SAs approach this issue.

    First, it is dangerous to split your noms and, if you have a clear first choice, really not a smart thing to do. Obviously a personal choice but I've had more than one candidate who did this and ended up w/o a nom to his/her first choice. The only exception to this advice is if you live someplace like WY, ND, SD, etc. where there generally are fewer qualified candidates for any SA than there are noms.

    Second, USNA will not give prep school to candidate who is academically qualified. I won't say it's never happened, but I've never heard of it happening. My guess is that you have an LOA to two SAs, you're going to be considered academically qualified.

    Third, GENERALLY, USNA will "find" a nom for an LOA recipient who couldn't get a nom. However, this typically presupposes that the person tried for all noms for which he/she was eligible and still couldn't get one. In the OP's case, it appears that he didn't apply for all noms for his first choice.

    Fourth, there are 5 VP noms per year per SA and the Supe has 50 per year. People do get Supe and VP noms for other reasons than they were an LOA recipient w/o a nom. For example, overseas candidates who have no district of residence. I had a candidate with no LOA and no noms get a Supe's nom, so it does happen. However, it's only happened once in my 9 yrs of doing this and the candidate did apply for every USNA nom for which he/she was eligible and only applied for USNA noms. USNA knew this.

    Fifth, I agree that calling your BGO (or equivalent) and your Regional Director (or equivalent) is smart. However, you MUST be honest in that you can't say you applied for all noms for that SA that you could if you didn't. You must acknowledge that you have the other noms. That could cause your SA of choice to wonder how much you really wanted it if you didn't put all your eggs in one basket. Just saying.

    Sixth, I had this happen to a candidate a few years ago. He applied to 2 MOCs for USMA and one for USNA. Got 2 USMA noms and not even an interview for USNA. Asked me what he should do. I said, "Go to USMA because that must have been your first choice since you applied for 2/3 noms for that school." And he did.

    I know this will come off as harsh. However, it is the risk that one takes when splitting noms. It can give you more options or it can reduce them in a hurry. My advice always has been . . . and remains . . .

    If you would truly be happy (as in equally happy) at more than one SA, then split your noms. If you have a preference and would not truly be happy at your second choice, put all your eggs in one basket, even if it seems the most remote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    One other thing . . .to future candidates out there, if you don't have an LOA to your #1 SA but have an LOA to your #2 or #3 SA, I would apply to every single nom source that I could for your #1 SA.

    Why? Because there's a better chance that SAs that gave you an LOA will "find" you a nom than that the one SA that didn't give you an LOA will.

    Of course, this presupposes that your #1 is a clear first choice. As always, if #2 is equally acceptable (although, then why would it be #2:confused:), then go ahead and split your noms.
     
  13. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    USNA1985 - thanks for adding to what I was trying to say! :wink:

    The only thing I wanted to clarify was on the VP Nominations. I said approximately one a year, and then went back in and checked my Field Force info, which says:

    Each Member of Congress and the Vice President is authorized five (5) cadetships at West Point at any one time.

    So I don't think it's 5 a year for the VP - I believe the VP can only have 5 cadets at WP (and I'd assume it would be the same for all SA's) at one time - hence my stat of about one a year.
     
  14. USNA1982BGO

    USNA1982BGO Retired Staff Member

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    ^^^
    You are not negative! You are right on.
    VP and Supe's noms are not to be viewed as the backup, VERY few are awarded.
    Very unlikely to switch noms, especially if you are in a very competitive region.
     
  15. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    I realized that, but figured it was worth suggesting just in case. All you have to lose is the price of the phone call. :wink: I have heard of cases where either someone else had requested a change (in the opposite direction obviously) or where they'd given a lesser qualified candidate their second choice, and could now give him his first instead if the OP was giving that one up. Or as in our area, they simply didn't have enough kids to fill all the slates. I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask! I agree that the odds are low, but I think the odds of getting in without a MOC nom are pretty much non-existent.
     
  16. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    I am curious as to where OP lives. When my son applied to two SAs two years ago, the MOCs asked him to rank his preferences. He put USMA 1st and USNA 2nd (he had LOA to USMA at the time and it was his first choice). Both senator and congressman put him on USMA slate. Afterwards, he received USNA LOA, so he called and asked if there was any way to switch his nom to USNA. He wasn't 100% sure, hadn't visited USNA yet, and wanted to keep his options open. The MOC was very happy to oblige; he wanted the nom to go to someone he knew could get in. After visiting, he realized USMA was still #1, and he let the MOC know he would not be accepting the USNA appointment. We live in a state that is not super-competitive. If the OP lives in MD, for example, I cannot imagine this being a possibility. But if he's from GA, who knows. So, while I think OP received bad advice on his noms (or came to a bad decision on his own) if he wants USMA, all might not be lost. I agree that he might be offered prep; not USMAPS, but perhaps a civilian prep like Marion. If he has come to his senses and knows he wants USMA, that might be his ticket in the door.

    Go Army!
     
  17. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    Love your quote here! :wink:

    I was guessing from his screenname though that his first choice was AF.
     
  18. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I don't want to say where I live on an internet forum, but believe me when I tell you that my area is one of the most competitive in the country that is not itself home to an SA. Switching noms is not going to be possible (at least on my own behalf, maybe the Academy would do what others have suggested and ask the MOC to switch). And thanks for your input 1985. I would be "truly happy" at any SA, even my third choice, I just have a preference for my first choice.
     
  19. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    don't assume that until you at least ask. Also some areas are much more competitive for one SA and not another.
     
  20. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Then you stand in great shape no matter what happens.:thumb:
     

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