Goaliedad, if your guesswork is corrext, and it very well may be, I'd opt for staying AROTC and let my gung-ho-ness shine though.... but that's just me. Besides, those Marines are just all screwed up!
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children?
Switching from army to marines...
- Thread starter sappel32
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Uncle Sam's Misguided Children?
Pima
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sappel,
I would not contact the det. This is what they would consider heloing as parents.
I agree he needs to define exactly why he wants to leave and what he would expect to be different if he went Marines.
The red flag for me would be if he is talking about how the unit is operating. It is a red flag because he is not realizing that this is college, it is not AD. College is long term training to become an officer.
If it is career fields, than he needs to talk to people to see what his chances are and the path that he needs to take to get there. Kids tend to have unrealistic illusions about their future. Sometimes when reality hits, they readjust their perspective. He may have readjusted his perspective now by putting the Marines up on a pedestal, another illusion that might not match reality. What if he does switch, will he next yr put the Army back on the pedestal because the Marines aren't matching his illusion?
I would not contact the det. This is what they would consider heloing as parents.
I agree he needs to define exactly why he wants to leave and what he would expect to be different if he went Marines.
The red flag for me would be if he is talking about how the unit is operating. It is a red flag because he is not realizing that this is college, it is not AD. College is long term training to become an officer.
If it is career fields, than he needs to talk to people to see what his chances are and the path that he needs to take to get there. Kids tend to have unrealistic illusions about their future. Sometimes when reality hits, they readjust their perspective. He may have readjusted his perspective now by putting the Marines up on a pedestal, another illusion that might not match reality. What if he does switch, will he next yr put the Army back on the pedestal because the Marines aren't matching his illusion?
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I suspect he went in thinking everyone was a motivated 6'2 225 pound stud driving towards a infantry career path. This not uncommon as most of the MSIs I have seen over the years have too much gusto spurred on by the recent conflicts, movies and video games. Reality hits them when they meet an MSV like me who tries to get them to think rationally before making statements like " I am going to be an airborne Special Forces Ranger surgeon in 5 years". It's college, you will have people you are motivated, average or just don't care. To leave because people in the program are not as motivated as you is petty and shortsighted and by jumping to the Corps is still not going to fill that void.
Obviously I am just guessing but I have heard MSIs talk like this before
Obviously I am just guessing but I have heard MSIs talk like this before
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I agree. I know of Marine MIDN who just didn't care, or do enough to get by with some to spare. I also know of MIDN who are all out to succeed but aren't walking around begging the Captain to send them in (to whatever). They know their place and keep their place. And then there are guys who are so gung-ho that they're obnoxious. I certianly don't think OP's DS will actually find the grass any greener with the Marines.
That would be his MSI Class instructor (his ROTC class). That would likely be a Captain or a Major. It won't likely be the actual PMS (sometimes a Major, usually an Lieutenant Colonel), who would tend to teach the MSIII or MSIV class.
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The only problem with going to the cadre ( who just contracted you for a 3 year scholarship) as an MSI potentially pins a target on their chest for four years. Obviously personalities vary from cadre to cadre, but telling a seasoned officer that AROTC just isn't what you are looking for and the Marines down the street have what you want is not going to sit well with some. Remember these officers might be writing your evals down the road and the cadre do communicate about cadets often from MS to MS class. I've sat in quite few cadre/leadership meetings and the actions or words of cadets come up a lot as points of discussion.
Just my 2 cents before he runs off and tells a tabbed O-4 he wants to be a Devildog.
Just my 2 cents before he runs off and tells a tabbed O-4 he wants to be a Devildog.
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You may be right. I'm sure there is talk about cadets among the cadre. They should be talking as this is a four year evaluation. At the same time they are there to help the student. I offer this quote from my DS's MOI
Human nature being what it is, you may be correct that a target is pasted on their back for four years but I would hope things would happen in the spirit of my quote above. In any case, I think about the only folks who can show him the [potential] error of his thinking, besides his parent's, is his cadre. Hopefully they will at least help him sort it out. (Color me naive I guess!)
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I would like to think that most cadre have the cadet's best interest in mind and I am sure for most cases that is true. However, I am also sure there are a few cadre out there who are not so benevolent and might hold a grudge. Who really knows though. As most have been in leadership roles for many years and have dealt with 18 year old junior enlisted making mistakes or needing counseling I don't think many would be malicious in their counsel.I was just throwing out a word of caution before proceeding.
EDelahanty
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I don't know that it would help for you to get involved with the cadre. PSU has a huge battalion, and most of the 300 cadets are likely at the main campus.
So, unless his performance as a cadet in the brief time he's been there has been conspicuously good or bad, the cadre has probably not gotten to know him well. Freshman usually comprise the largest class within a battalion, and the number of non-contracted dropouts is also the largest. To the PMS and the XO you're one of hundreds of parents, and they may not be able to offer anything more than generalities. If his trouble is due to a problem with an MS3 or MS4 supervising him, you won't hear about it from the cadre.
It may be that your son is having a hard time adjusting to being a little fish in a big pond, ROTC-wise. Or, the competition for a role in the various clubs may be stiff. If this is the case, there is the possibility that he could benefit by transferring to a smaller school within the brigade (or a smaller PSU campus that offers ROTC), taking his scholarship with him.
So, unless his performance as a cadet in the brief time he's been there has been conspicuously good or bad, the cadre has probably not gotten to know him well. Freshman usually comprise the largest class within a battalion, and the number of non-contracted dropouts is also the largest. To the PMS and the XO you're one of hundreds of parents, and they may not be able to offer anything more than generalities. If his trouble is due to a problem with an MS3 or MS4 supervising him, you won't hear about it from the cadre.
It may be that your son is having a hard time adjusting to being a little fish in a big pond, ROTC-wise. Or, the competition for a role in the various clubs may be stiff. If this is the case, there is the possibility that he could benefit by transferring to a smaller school within the brigade (or a smaller PSU campus that offers ROTC), taking his scholarship with him.
Back from face to face...
After 8 hours of talking, brainstorming, psyco evaluation (by mom and dad), it appears that his problems are 75% homesick and 25% disappointed by whatever idea he had of ROTC.
PIMA may have hit it on the head. The kids have this idea of what all the "hoo-rah" is about and then realize it is really just school. No, I do not think the grass would be any greener on the other (marine) side, but he still does. I think he thought it would be a "band of brothers". The other kids have their own friends, schoolwork, etc. and he is left "alone" to find his own new friends, clubs, etc.
He is going to "give it his best" and continue with classes and AROTC. He may reapply for MO ROTC and/or PLC but is realistic about the chances of getting this.
Our point to him was that the army wants HIM. They see something in him. They see a future army officer. The marines did not. He seemed to understand this. For now, anyway.
Thank you all for "listening". Your advice is priceless (especially about not going to the arotc cadre). I have a feeling this saga will continue for awhile, and if you care to be updated, I certainly will do that. God Bless you all. SA
After 8 hours of talking, brainstorming, psyco evaluation (by mom and dad), it appears that his problems are 75% homesick and 25% disappointed by whatever idea he had of ROTC.
PIMA may have hit it on the head. The kids have this idea of what all the "hoo-rah" is about and then realize it is really just school. No, I do not think the grass would be any greener on the other (marine) side, but he still does. I think he thought it would be a "band of brothers". The other kids have their own friends, schoolwork, etc. and he is left "alone" to find his own new friends, clubs, etc.
He is going to "give it his best" and continue with classes and AROTC. He may reapply for MO ROTC and/or PLC but is realistic about the chances of getting this.
Our point to him was that the army wants HIM. They see something in him. They see a future army officer. The marines did not. He seemed to understand this. For now, anyway.
Thank you all for "listening". Your advice is priceless (especially about not going to the arotc cadre). I have a feeling this saga will continue for awhile, and if you care to be updated, I certainly will do that. God Bless you all. SA
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After 8 hours of talking, brainstorming, psyco evaluation (by mom and dad), it appears that his problems are 75% homesick and 25% disappointed by whatever idea he had of ROTC.
PIMA may have hit it on the head. The kids have this idea of what all the "hoo-rah" is about and then realize it is really just school. No, I do not think the grass would be any greener on the other (marine) side, but he still does. I think he thought it would be a "band of brothers". The other kids have their own friends, schoolwork, etc. and he is left "alone" to find his own new friends, clubs, etc.
He is going to "give it his best" and continue with classes and AROTC. He may reapply for MO ROTC and/or PLC but is realistic about the chances of getting this.
Our point to him was that the army wants HIM. They see something in him. They see a future army officer. The marines did not. He seemed to understand this. For now, anyway.
Thank you all for "listening". Your advice is priceless (especially about not going to the arotc cadre). I have a feeling this saga will continue for awhile, and if you care to be updated, I certainly will do that. God Bless you all. SA
Thanks for the update sappel32. I'm sure once he starts making friends and hanging with some folks at school he'll be doing just fine. You might try encouraging him to join some other club or something to that end. I know this will sound weird but my DS, who thinks all officers should be well rounded, joined a ballroom dancing club at college and is having a "ball"
Great way to meet girls too. I'm sure there are some intramural teams he can get involved in too. I'm glad to hear he's sticking with it. I'm confident it will all work out in the end and certainly by the end of. the year if not end of the semester. he'll be fitting right in. It's early. I'm sure he'll have some urrah experiences during the year.
If you need an ear we're here for you. Would love to hear about your DS's successes and challenges.
Pima
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sappel,
Thanks for the update.
Just my 0.170432 cents, and after that throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
Have him look into military fraternities. AF has Arnie Air, Honor Guard, Angel Flight and Silver Wings (??? think that is what it is called).
DS his freshman yr had issues too. He was in the scholars program where they were all dormed together. The school did not dorm ROTC cadets/mids together. He was the only one on his floor in ROTC. When they were hanging out at 11 he had to go to bed to be up at 4:30.
He was caught between two worlds. College life and ROTC life.
His spring fresh. sem. he pledged a military fraternity. This allowed him to bond with the det on a different level. It created those friendships that people talk about frequently.
His soph yr he dormed with his college friends, but by the end of his fall semester things changed. They changed not only because of his ROTC involvement, but also the friendships made with ROTC cadets outside of LLAB and PT as an AAS member.
His jr yr he moved off campus, and his room mates were all AFROTC. His friends in the scholars program were still being college kids. He OTOH already was working to getting his dream job. His AFROTC friends got him.
It is a hard path when you are 18,19 20 and 21. It is hard to say goodbye to a part of your life, and maybe people too.
Military frats are a great bridge for them emotionally. At least it was for Bullet and our DS.
Thanks for the update.
Just my 0.170432 cents, and after that throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
Have him look into military fraternities. AF has Arnie Air, Honor Guard, Angel Flight and Silver Wings (??? think that is what it is called).
DS his freshman yr had issues too. He was in the scholars program where they were all dormed together. The school did not dorm ROTC cadets/mids together. He was the only one on his floor in ROTC. When they were hanging out at 11 he had to go to bed to be up at 4:30.
He was caught between two worlds. College life and ROTC life.
His spring fresh. sem. he pledged a military fraternity. This allowed him to bond with the det on a different level. It created those friendships that people talk about frequently.
His soph yr he dormed with his college friends, but by the end of his fall semester things changed. They changed not only because of his ROTC involvement, but also the friendships made with ROTC cadets outside of LLAB and PT as an AAS member.
His jr yr he moved off campus, and his room mates were all AFROTC. His friends in the scholars program were still being college kids. He OTOH already was working to getting his dream job. His AFROTC friends got him.
It is a hard path when you are 18,19 20 and 21. It is hard to say goodbye to a part of your life, and maybe people too.
Military frats are a great bridge for them emotionally. At least it was for Bullet and our DS.