Syria

Barack Obama: I came, I saw, I postponed (again). Don't see how he could do otherwise at this point. Hopefully this diplomatic effort will pan out but frankly I'm not too hopeful.
 
Trust but verify how? Nobody but the Syrian government even knows where all their chemical weapons are stored. This is just a face saving solution for all involved except the people that were "gassed". Politics as usual. :thumbdown:
 
Read about a Rich Lowry comment in a WSJ column that made me chuckle:
In a New York Post column, Rich Lowry puts it a million times more pointedly: "Now that John Kerry is the secretary of state, his gaffes can launch major diplomatic initiatives."
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How's this for irony? A few weeks after Obama supporters were upset that a rodeo clown wore a mask in order to look like Obama, many more of us are now upset that the way Obama and his administration is handling the Syria situation makes them all look like clowns. :biggrin:
 
When the president made the "Red Line" remark, it was inferred that if crossed it would change his calculus regarding his position, an attack on Syria was mot mentioned specifically.

What bothers me is that once it became apparent that the line had been crossed, the first option thrown out was a military strike. This seemed to leave the door open for Putin to ride in on the white horse (Albeit shirtless) to propose the current plan that basically left the US and it's foriegn policy scrambling.

It seems that Congress will see this as their out and any chance the administration had for a favorable vote just became nil. Couple this with the interview Assad had with Charlie Rose and the US looks like were riding the Caboose in this Foriegn Policy train.

NorwichDad,

I always love those YouTube clips, maybe it's the right time for "Bugs 2016"
 
Elizebeth O'Bagy is running the foriegn policy of the US. A fake PHD with an OP ED. Quoted by Kerry and McCain. God save us all from these idiots.
 
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Jcleppe said:
When the president made the "Red Line" remark, it was inferred that if crossed it would change his calculus regarding his position, an attack on Syria was mot mentioned specifically.

What bothers me is that once it became apparent that the line had been crossed, the first option thrown out was a military strike. This seemed to leave the door open for Putin to ride in on the white horse (Albeit shirtless) to propose the current plan that basically left the US and it's foriegn policy scrambling.

It seems that Congress will see this as their out and any chance the administration had for a favorable vote just became nil. Couple this with the interview Assad had with Charlie Rose and the US looks like were riding the Caboose in this Foriegn Policy train.

NorwichDad,

I always love those YouTube clips, maybe it's the right time for "Bugs 2016"
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I'm sure your right, but I also think Putin is far more able to pi$$ Americans off in a way Assad couldn't. If Putin pushes too far in all this there could be some sort of backlash.

I definitely agree and wonder why the first 'go to' solution was a military strike. As a golfer, I would expect Obama to understand something about tempo. He screwed up the tempo in this whole thing. He should have started with a diplomatic effort in any case while also building and making his case for a strike if need be. If he hadn't rushed things, the UK may have come along.

Oh well, I'm glad we've gotten to where we are and hope this diplomatic effort works. If Putin is involved in it I wouldn't expect he would allow Sria to use chem weapons again even if he somehow hangs on to some. It would reflect poorly on Putin.
 
Really alarming today is the anouncement by Russia of constructing a second Nuclear Reactor in Iran and the sale of five units of the S-300VM air defense system to the Iranians to protect the reactors. Putin is emboldened, the Chinese will pile on next. This is an effect of the Syrian missteps. I like the President but he has had a Jimmy Carter month. Wonder what the Israelis are thinking?
 
NorwichDad said:
Wonder what the Israelis are thinking?
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That they now have 6 new targets. There is no way they will stand aside and allow those systems to become operational.

I'm pretty sure right about now Obama is thinking that he can't wait until January 2017 when he can hand over the reins to someone else and hit the lecture circuits as an "elder statesmen".
 
Bullet said:
That they now have 6 new targets. There is no way they will stand aside and allow those systems to become operational.

I'm pretty sure right about now Obama is thinking that he can't wait until January 2017 when he can hand over the reins to someone else and hit the lecture circuits as an "elder statesmen".
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Defer to your expertise. Since the Israelis have our aircraft, how serious are these systems? Are these first rate air defenses?
 
goaliedad said:
About the only appropriate response I could think of, would be if one of our precision guided weapons happened to be launched from within Syrian Territory and found its way to the President's brother (rumor has it he is the one who controls the chemical weapons).

Plenty of deniability on our part. Geez, how could the rebels have gotten that weapon? And where do we send the flowers? And an appropriate response to take out those responsible and send a warning to those who might repeat the mistake. Might even get someone to the negotiating table?

However, I agree that we shouldn't have drawn the line, because it makes these kind of paybacks look less subtle.
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I still stand behind my original solution to this problem.

Upping the ante in the proxy war (that is what this has turned into) is the only way to assert real power.

Knocking off a high ranking official sends the message that the head of state is next. Yes it would create a another failed state (not that we aren't getting there in steps), but the Russians know that if the state fails, their influence there is gone. At this point, the Russians would have real pressure to bring this to a negotiated solution (including protecting their access to military base usage). Putin doesn't care about Syrians, only their warm water port and bases in the country. Syria could become their Cuba - a country not friendly to them that hosts a military base.
 
NorwichDad said:
Defer to your expertise. Since the Israelis have our aircraft, how serious are these systems? Are these first rate air defenses?
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VERY serious. Game changing serious. The Russians tried to sell these systems to the Iranians a short while back, and Israel made some not-so-veiled threats that they would preemptively strike. Only some intense pressure from our side stopped the transaction.

An emboldened Putin? Perhaps he's looking to see just how far he can push us now, or see what he can get from us in return to stop the shipment this time.

But don't worry. Our Congress is involved this time. We're in good hands. :rolleyes:
 
goaliedad said:
Upping the ante in the proxy war (that is what this has turned into) is the only way to assert real power.

Knocking off a high ranking official sends the message that the head of state is next. Yes it would create a another failed state (not that we aren't getting there in steps), but the Russians know that if the state fails, their influence there is gone. At this point, the Russians would have real pressure to bring this to a negotiated solution (including protecting their access to military base usage). Putin doesn't care about Syrians, only their warm water port and bases in the country. Syria could become their Cuba - a country not friendly to them that hosts a military base.
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Goalie, I agree with you. Assad, his brother, his pretty little British wife and about 100 of his closest family members/advisors need to believe that they are in the crosshairs. And we cannot care if some Russian technical advisors have the same fear. Obama can safely say about the Syrian CW program, "You didn't build that. The Russians did."

Bashar isn't cut out for this. He was a British-trained eye surgeon living in London, romancing his investment banker/stock broker future wife when his heir apparent brother died in a car crash. His younger brother, now running the CW program, was a lunatic and considered unfit to succeed the father.

Just like Gaddafi, Saddam and Milosevic, these guys are cowards. Each one gave up the direct confrontation with their neighbors and the US when their survival was threatened.

The US is the only country capable of dismantling CW's, having cut our teeth destroying Libya's, Iraq's and even helping the Russians with some of theirs when they went broke in the 1990's. In fact, we did such a good job in Iraq post Dessert Storm, that coalition forces could only find one dusty, old store of CW's during Iraqi Freedom. Serbia handed Milosevic over to the Hague to bolster their case to join the EU and NATO (who bombed them).

Russia cares about Russia, so they care about Syrian stability and nothing else. It is truly their only ally left from the Cold War. They are doing a wonderful job of poking the US with a 10 foot stick, but they have a quickly emerging demographic disaster. The European Russian population is declining while the Muslim Russian population is growing. They have a massive soft underbelly in predominately Muslim Russian Central Asia and the North Caucasus, home of the Tsarnaev Brothers.

The Russians, Iranians and Hezbollah are boxed in now with the bad guys. They own Syria, not us.

We can only pray that Obama and Co. show more skill in handling this situation than they have up to this point.
 
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