Thanksgiving for Cadets

toms663 said:
Well, we heard about this and we said, ok, were coming to Colorado to see a Thanks Giving Football game and spend whatever time is allowed with our DD. In her 18 years, only a small number of Tdays we have been home, most were shared in other lands/countries etc. She is committed to USAFA and as it stands now..... she wants to see the game live. It sounds like fun. We support her and what she is doing. Life has changed sand so we must. Go Falcons. BTW: we live 14 hours away from the Springs.
Click to expand...

We are considering doing the same; we're about 1,100 miles away. Hope the weather holds!
 
I think it's best to hold off on getting worked up about this when the decision has yet to be made.
 
If I was to wager on this, I'd say that thanksgiving break won't be affected. But that's just my uninformed opinion.
 
Christcorp said:
If I was to wager on this, I'd say that thanksgiving break won't be affected. But that's just my uninformed opinion.
Click to expand...

I am with Mike on this one.

It is my understanding that this is AOG driven. General Johnson is in favor of the Thanksgiving schedule as published. The AOG is the champion of requiring the Wing to march on Friday. If this is true, this would appear to be all about college sports and nothing to do with the military since the AOG is not in the formal chain of command but has tremendous political power just like at many civilian colleges.

But we are prepared to spend Thanksgiving in COS with our cadet.
 
Christcorp said:
.... And contrary to what many people may think, their kids ARE IN THE MILITARY. It just so happens that their current JOB is "Student". But this isn't a case of "My kid is off to college". No, your kid "Joined the Military". S/He just so happens to have the JOB of "Student" at this particular time in their career. No different than my son, is graduated the academy in 2012, still has the JOB of "Student". Just like Hornet did before him and many others. Again; "Student" just happens to be their current job. I know many parents want to think and believe that their kid is in "College" and that they (Parent) can plan to do many/most of the things that a "Normal" college parent can do.
Click to expand...
I recognize we are debating about semantics. :) But my DS goes to college at USAFA. He is also in the military and therefore is experiencing a dramatically different education versus a traditional college. It seems the service academies agree. From http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/Home.aspx
Those who are selected to attend USMA receive a college education that is unparalleled in the world with tuition, room and board and expenses full paid.

http://www.usna.edu/About "As the undergraduate college of our country’s naval service, the Naval Academy prepares young men and women to become professional officers of competence..."

From http://www.academyadmissions.com/ "Get more from your college years...."

Christcorp said:
The fact that the military doesn't calculate leave time for cadets and has automatic time off at thanksgiving, christmas, spring break, and summer is a lot more generous than any of the enlisted folks get coming out of basic training. And a lot more time off per year than any of the active duty members. (Officers and enlisted). Active duty gets 30 days vacation/leave time per year. Cadets get quite a bit more time off than that.
Click to expand...

This exclusively happens ^^^ because they are in college. We agree that there is a big difference between a traditional college and a service academy. We also agree that the families of Cadets better get use to being away at holidays. "It's not a college" gets mentioned too often on this forum. It certainly is a college. Parents with kids in civilian colleges are well aware of the differences.

My DS wouldn't have it any other way! Because of other USAFA commitments, he won't be home for Thanksgiving or Christmas. For that matter, he had zero summer break last year. I am guessing he won't be home for well over a year. That means is he is taking advantages of all of the incredible opportunities that this military college has to offer. I'm not complaining nor is he.

In short, we can talk all about the differences between a military college (a.k.a. an academy) and a civilian college. But to explain the differences away by saying academies are not a college is categorically incorrect. :)
 
Last edited:
I never said the academy wasn't a college. I simply said parents can't hold the common expression of "my kid went off to college" and have it mean the same as when a neighbor says their kid "went off to college". Your kid joined or "went off to the service". Their current job happens to be student. And yes the school is a college. That's why they receive an accredited diploma. But to think that when your kids goes to the academy, you should have similar expectations is also categorically incorrect. Just like if your child gets sick at the academy, the only reason you're notified is because your child "allows" it. Too many people don't realize that unlike a traditional college, your child is no longer your dependent. They are 100% emancipated. Sounds hard to hear that as a parent you have very little say in what happens with your child, but that's the truth. In a traditional college setting, you have 4-5 years to get use to your child becoming totally independent. In the academy and service, they become 100% independent the moment they raise their hand and take the oath.
 
I think if you mentioned to Joe State-U College or to his parents that he would not be home for A YEAR as an undergrad there would be quite the hue and cry and no more going to THAT school.

ChristCorp is right: they are in the military and their duty is to attend and graduate from that college, in the case That Little Engineering College in the Rockies. And while they do take classes and study like "normal" college students, there is no frisbee out on the quad with that funny smelling blue smoke coming from the dorm rooms. For that last part, you can tell it's military not civilian because, especially if they've reached commitment, there might be MILITARY consequences, not just academic probation or a $30 fine.

But I do get where you're coming from too, MNDAD.

ChristCorp & Hornet, is it much different for those in graduate programs? Obviously there would be more freedoms since usually one isn't studying ON a military installation (well, what about AFIT?).
 
Can't speak much about AFIT. I know many who go or went there, but I don't know much personally. Hornet can give a better opinion of grad school than I can. My comes 2nd hand from my son, his girlfriend (Also a Lt in grad school) and a few others. Being grad school is his current job, that's what he does. No military uniform (on normal day to day life). He does wear one when he travels doing part of his job say in Washington DC. He job as a grad student has him presenting findings and such to military officers.

He still has to do his yearly PT tests. Still has some military appointments. Has to accrue vacation time and submit requests to take the vacation time. The school he's at has very few holiday days off. If there is time off; such as christmas, my son has to take leave if he wants to leave the area. Which means he has to make sure he budgets how much time he takes off. But at the same time, part of his scholarship is to put in a certain amount of hours doing research and working on projects. So he has to factor all that in to.

I'd say the only real difference is that he's not wearing a military uniform every day. But also, the academy is still a military training environment. No different than an enlisted's tech school. Just 4 years long instead of say 1 year. You're not just free to come and go when you're not in class. You need permission. Same with a tech school. But once you graduate, as long as you're where you're suppose to be when you're suppose to be; you are free to come and go and do whatever else you'd like. Whether it's a normal job on the flightline or grad school. But again, the academy is still part of the military training environment. Just like tech schools for enlisted. You have formations in the morning. There's a curfew (For lack of a better word. You can't just leave the base if you want to. etc.... But once you're in the "Real" military; after training; you're free to come and go. Again, as long as you're you're where you're suppose to be when you're suppose to be there.
 
Blackbird said:
It is my understanding that this is AOG driven. General Johnson is in favor of the Thanksgiving schedule as published. The AOG is the champion of requiring the Wing to march on Friday. If this is true, this would appear to be all about college sports and nothing to do with the military since the AOG is not in the formal chain of command but has tremendous political power just like at many civilian colleges.
Click to expand...
The tail wagging the dog?
Should be interesting to see how Gen Johnson handles this.
 
Slightly different perspective re active duty and grad school. My daughter, a 2013 grad, is at Dover Air Force (Dover, Delaware) as a Finance Officer. She works in an office, on base, 60+ hours/week (not always that many hours, but often) and wears a uniform. She has some required night time and weekend duties related to her job and often works extra time on the weekends to complete performance reviews of her airmen, etc. She is expected to, and does, volunteer both on the base and in the community (Big Brothers/Big Sisters and other volunteer activities). She must request leave to travel farther than a certain distance from her base -- even on holiday weekends. Labor Day weekend her Tech Sgt is on vacation outside the Dover area -- she must remain within a certain distance of the base in order to handle receipt of money, disbursements to pilots/crews, etc. that may come up over the holiday weekend. She is enrolled in a part time MBA program. She commutes to those classes at night (not in uniform). Her military duties are expected to come first; conflicts between school and military duties must (obviously) be resolved in favor of the military duties (her professors have been accommodating). She must (as noted above) continue to take/perform on physical fitness tests. From what she tells me -- this is the basic way it works for her (non-pilot) friends who are 2nd Lts. also doing part time grad school.
 
I was a Personnel Officer, and what your daughter describes above is par for the course for support officers.

Also FWIW, back when dino's roamed the Terrazzo, we weren't even allowed to come home for Thanksgiving. We couldn't leave the local area. For a few of the years I was there we even had to go back to school on Friday after Thanksgiving!
 
falconchic88 said:
I was a Personnel Officer, and what your daughter describes above is par for the course for support officers.

Also FWIW, back when dino's roamed the Terrazzo, we weren't even allowed to come home for Thanksgiving. We couldn't leave the local area. For a few of the years I was there we even had to go back to school on Friday after Thanksgiving!
Click to expand...

Too funny. And true. I'm older than many here. Got into the Air Force in 1978. Seeing the shift out of the Cold War and we studied and learned about the KGB. We also saw the shift in military personnel. We nick named it the KGA. "Kinder Gentler Air Force". I know things evolve. Not complaining. Just wondering if change is always good. Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
 
Christcorp said:
I never said the academy wasn't a college. I simply said parents can't hold the common expression of "my kid went off to college" and have it mean the same as when a neighbor says their kid "went off to college". Your kid joined or "went off to the service". Their current job happens to be student. And yes the school is a college. That's why they receive an accredited diploma. But to think that when your kids goes to the academy, you should have similar expectations is also categorically incorrect. Just like if your child gets sick at the academy, the only reason you're notified is because your child "allows" it. Too many people don't realize that unlike a traditional college, your child is no longer your dependent. They are 100% emancipated. Sounds hard to hear that as a parent you have very little say in what happens with your child, but that's the truth. In a traditional college setting, you have 4-5 years to get use to your child becoming totally independent. In the academy and service, they become 100% independent the moment they raise their hand and take the oath.
Click to expand...
I'm glad that we agree it's a college. I misread your words.:smile:

One technicality: adult medical records that are shared with parents have to be allowed (Cadet or Civilian). For that matter, my medical records are not to be shared with my wife unless I want them to be.

Back to the differences.... I would hope that every Cadet parent understands that a service academy is dramatically different that a traditional college in every sense of the word. BUT in 2014, "100% independent" certainly isn't the case in the eyes of USAFA. As I have said before, USAFA has a parent liaison department, coordinates parents weekend etc. I just got this card in the mail: "CADET SURVIVAL GUIDE....how to give Aid and Comfort to your Cadet" and they promoted this link http://www.usafasupport.com/cadet-activities/20142015-cadet-survival-guide . Now. I don't plan on reading it, I don't need any liaison coordination, and for that matter I don't need a parents weekend. Hopefully you see my point that USAFA surely doesn't see Cadets as being totally independent. I suppose this is part of that "kinder and gentler" Air Force you were talking about....
 
I think the parents weekend has NOTHING to do with the welfare of the cadets. It's so ALL those parents will come to COS and spend oodles of dollars at USAFA, in COS, and in Colorado in general. It must be a significant money maker for all concerned, and a significant money drainer for all those parents.

I went to one or two parent-group meetings and realized that my sons really didn't need a Halloween care package (though they did like it!), nor did they need me to hold their hands.

Twin A was hospitalized and I didn't even know it until he'd been out for a few days!

So, yeah, it ain't PennState, but it's also not Parris Island.
 
Christcorp said:
Can't speak much about AFIT.
Click to expand...

I can. So AFIT was similar to USAFA in the sense that you still wore a uniform to work/school, classes were mandatory, you had a chain of command, you had mandatory meetings, and you would had to take leave if you wanted to go somewhere, just like AD. The difference was that at AFIT if you didn't have class, you didn't have to be at the school. By my last couple of quarters, I would go into the school a few hours a day for class or to work on my thesis, and the rest I would do from home.

As for the leave issue, you more or less couldn't take leave during the quarters, but you could take it in between quarters. Otherwise, you'd have to "be at your duty station", which usually meant you have to be available to attend briefings and check e-mail every day. So just like an AD assignment, you attend work or take leave, and they have the ability to deny leave if they have a reason.

If that's not what you were questioning about AFIT, then please re-ask. I'm not very active on here anymore but try to find threads discussing areas where I can help.
 
From cadet leadership tonight,

"Cadet Wing,

There have been many rumors floating around about Thanksgiving leave and I wanted to clarify the situation. The bottom line is Thanksgiving leave will stand as is. There is still a mission piece that Cadet Sortor will address tomorrow at lunch."
 
fencersmother said:
I think the parents weekend has NOTHING to do with the welfare of the cadets. It's so ALL those parents will come to COS and spend oodles of dollars at USAFA, in COS, and in Colorado in general. It must be a significant money maker for all concerned, and a significant money drainer for all those parents.

I went to one or two parent-group meetings and realized that my sons really didn't need a Halloween care package (though they did like it!), nor did they need me to hold their hands.

Twin A was hospitalized and I didn't even know it until he'd been out for a few days!

So, yeah, it ain't PennState, but it's also not Parris Island.
Click to expand...

Wow, I have a different take. I enjoyed parents weekend tremendously and appreciated the opportunity to see where DS lived and worked. It was a heady experience for me, as an old guy 1970s Army tanker who was still an E-4 after six years. DS enjoyed the break in the action and being with Mom, Dad, and Sis doing the tourist things we always did when on vacation.

Regarding out parents club, we were active members all four years and have continued as alumni. We learned a lot about how things work at the Academy and met some really neat people along the way.

These activities are for the welfare of the parents. That's why they are called parents weekend and parents clubs.
 
Yes, that was my point, those activities are for the parents
. We often want to feel that connection to our sons and daughters, so far from home.

Of course the cadets LOVE it when Mom and Dad come out! They get away from the Academy! But truth be told, the cadets don't really need their parents there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top