The Grinder

kpbaseballmom said:
OK, a new question to be included on the PKTs for the incoming Plebe Class:

What year did Barney Square become known as the Grinder and why?:rolleyes:

(We know from above discussions that it was before 1995.)

And the construction company is definitely "grinding out slowly" the repavement. Good thing someone isn't trying to make a living.:eek:
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i can count on 0 fingers how many bricks got laid today:rolleyes: maybe have people on restriction do it for E.D.? the bricks are just sitting there:biggrin:
 
This is a great thread.

Speaking as a parent with ZERO knowledge of KP unitl the DS became interested as a Junior in HS, it is somewhat comforting to know my opinions are not unique.

From day 1 (Recruiting process) the Military "options" have been front and center. Yes, the "true" mission of Maritime service is clearly there, however, during the time our guy has been there (INDOC and two Tri's) he has seen much more emphasis on Regimental/Military than anything else......now, I can guess that is going to be lessened as he progresses out of being a 4th Classman. Hopefully so, because he is much more interested in being a sailor and not a warrior.

I am among the mass of people that cannot wait for a strong effective leader, with longstanding KP ties, to be in command. I know that is not a requirement and it may not happen. But, if it does, IMHO, that could really help the place be positiioned with the valuable and unique mission that will clearly be a case for it's survival.
 
2013Parent said:
From day 1 (Recruiting process) the Military "options" have been front and center. Yes, the "true" mission of Maritime service is clearly there, however, during the time our guy has been there (INDOC and two Tri's) he has seen much more emphasis on Regimental/Military than anything else......now, I can guess that is going to be lessened as he progresses out of being a 4th Classman. Hopefully so, because he is much more interested in being a sailor and not a warrior.
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I am/was the same way (sailor, not warrior), but living in the "1st Marine Division" didn't help. I think it actually got worse as an upperclassman. Hopefully, things will change over the next couple of years. Just make sure he keeps his own goal in mind and doesn't succumb to the BS that slowly permeated more and more when I was there.
 
Anecdotally, "back in the day" (e.g. 1978 - 1986) an average of ~15% of the graduating class went active duty. Further back in the day going into any service other than the Navy or the Coast Guard was much rarer and more difficult than it is today.

I am not pushing either the "then" or the "now" as being better or worse, just passing along my understanding and recollections in this regard.
 
KP Engineer Thank You

KPEngineer said:
I too have gone full circle so I do believe that some people do. I started on tugs, became a beltway bandit, then went to work for the Navy, MSC and finally the Marine Corps before I got tired of selling my soul to the government. I went back to sea last year and am sailing as Chief on a tug. We have made a few trips recently to Glen Cove and I got to go right by KP. You have a lot nicer boats now than when we were mids.

Thank you for sharing your career. From earlier threads, some said this would 'probably never happen' -- returning to the sea --

I have seen how the Sea now is in her blood and it calls to her. I asked if she was going to be able to spend all of 1/C year on land....her reply: It will be hard. At least I have my Sailing.
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KPEngineer said:
Does anyone leave the military return to the maritime industry? Some do, but certainly not all and I would wager the number is actually quite small.
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Yep, I would have to agree with KPEngineer on that one. After spending 34 years in the Merchant Marine that’s how I would bet my money too..
 
Maintaining a license as an engineer when not sailing is easy. A 150 question take home test and a one week class every five years. For a mate, even one who sails it is far more difficult and is a serious investment of both time and money. I dont know anyone who thought it was worth it who didnt HAVE to have it.

I am also willing to bet that those returning to sea after a full career who were either non-Navy or non-SWO is pretty close to zero.
 
Met 2

At a reception for the creation of the Colorado Alumni Group (Summer 2007) I met a former Navy pilot who had flown for 12 years and was retuning to the Sea as a Third Mate.

September 2009, I met a 2006 Grad, Ryan, who was getting out of Army Special Forces to return to the sea as a 2nd Engineer after 4 years. I spoke to his wife and he being successful. Glad to return to the sea.

I hope these are not exceptions.......
 
Obviously being a 4/c I haven't been around long enough to know anything but heres my thought...

I know a bunch of people here that are great people don't get me wrong, but here only because they want a commision in the Army or Marine corps. Great, but they are taking up some kid's slot who wanted to become a leader in the MARITIME industry. There's many ways to go about getting a military Commission, many rotc schools that will give full scholarships, west point, annapolis etc. This is the only federal maritime academy. It should stay that way.

I witnessed a senior deckie who will remain unnamed who, when asked by a sailor during a Command inspection, could not tie a BOWLINE. Of course, he was hardcore marine ops...
 
wakefreek617 said:
I witnessed a senior deckie who will remain unnamed who, when asked by a sailor during a Command inspection, could not tie a BOWLINE. Of course, he was hardcore marine ops...
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I must say I sailed for two years and even at the end of those two years I still messed up a bowline on more occasions than I got it right. :biggrin:

Something about a tree, and a rabbit and a hole...
 
kp2001 said:
I must say I sailed for two years and even at the end of those two years I still messed up a bowline on more occasions than I got it right. :biggrin:

Something about a tree, and a rabbit and a hole...
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Rabbit comes out of the hole goes around the tree and back down the hole.

Of course if you had been a sailor on the offshore team, we'd have taught you how to quickly "throw in a bowline" so you could have properly assisted in quickly changing "up" or "down" your head sail sheets as the wind freshened or died down.... That way not only would you have known very well how to tie a bowline, you'd have looked very cool doing it:thumb:
 
kpbaseballmom said:
OK, a new question to be included on the PKTs for the incoming Plebe Class:

What year did Barney Square become known as the Grinder and why?:rolleyes:

(We know from above discussions that it was before 1995.)

And the construction company is definitely "grinding out slowly" the repavement. Good thing someone isn't trying to make a living.:eek:
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Someone should ask Gunnary Sergant Ragin USMC Retired .... oops I mean CDR Ragin, USMS or any number of retired Marines on the Commandan'ts Staff who spent the larger part of the past decade and a half working to turn the US Merchant Marine Academy into the United States Marine Corps Academy could probably answer it well...
 
jasperdog said:
Rabbit comes out of the hole goes around the tree and back down the hole.

Of course if you had been a sailor on the offshore team, we'd have taught you how to quickly "throw in a bowline" so you could have properly assisted in quickly changing "up" or "down" your head sail sheets as the wind freshened or died down.... That way not only would you have known very well how to tie a bowline, you'd have looked very cool doing it:thumb:
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I learned how to tie a bowline in the Boy Scouts. Just in case anyone cared.:biggrin:
 
jasperdog said:
to turn the US Merchant Marine Academy into the United States Marine Corps Academy could probably answer it well...
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I bet that was a huge drag for a kid at USMMA who was primarily interested in sailing as a mariner. Nothing against our great USMC, but it is a very different attitude than even the other military branches. Takes a special type, indeed, and I imagine a student at KP with the goal to sail as a mariner was not thrilled to be inundated with all things leatherneck. Was there really such a big USMC influence?

From my experience at VMI, the USMC guys played a pretty big role on campus. However, the nature of VMI is pretty different than at USMMA, especially since there wasn't a singular professional focus like KP has with regard to maritime studies. But I'll say this, as an Air Force ROTC guy at VMI, I had very little interest in dealing with Marine staff. They were way too hard core for me (and usually quick to hand out demerits-maybe that was just the crew we had at school, though). I have the utmost respect for the USMC and their mission, but their extreme type-A style did not fit my personality. Being a Marine is a big lifestyle choice, and it really has to be something you want badly ("The Few, The Proud," etc.). I'm guessing that a lot of guys at USMMA don't fall into that boat (probably true of most USNA mids, too).

This is a very interesting topic to me.
 
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I lived in First Company and we had not just one, but two Marines (a CAPT and GYSGT) breathing down our necks every day. It was amusing at first, I'll admit, but eventually the yelling, IT, constant "reminders" for haircuts, etc, just gets old. My CO (or co-CO since it was never really clear who was what) told all of us 1/C at the beginning of the year that he didn't care what we thought about him - he was at KP for three years, no matter what, it was his active duty assignment. That pretty much set the tone for the rest of the academic year. An O-3 should be much more approachable than that.

I realize that they can have their liasion on campus and be there for the few mids who are interested in the USMC, but, in my opinion, they should have no role in the daily life of the regiment. Their whole philosophy is just so counter-productive to the culture of the school and I (along with most other alumni) don't want to see that destroyed, if it already hasn't been. This whole thing with the "Grinder" vs Barney Square is a perfect example. The "11 General Orders" that Plebes are required to memorize are also modeled from the USMC ones. I could be the hero that saves the ship from breaking away from the dock in a windstorm, but god help me if I don't know the 7th General Order verbatim... I could go on and on with this.

I can only hope that they see the light that the previous GYSGT (the immediate predecessor to these two) did and adapt themselves to the school rather than the other way around. I know he gained a lot of respect from the regiment, particularly in First Company for doing that.

It would also be helpful if they actually knew what was going on (and this goes for everybody in the KP leadership) - such as the time in late May when we were told we had two days to pack our bags and move out after we were done with finals. "Sir, we still have to take license exams" "You gotta do what??"
 
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2009KPer said:
It would also be helpful if they actually knew what was going on (and this goes for everybody in the KP leadership) - such as the time in late May when we were told we had two days to pack our bags and move out after we were done with finals. "Sir, we still have to take license exams" "You gotta do what??"
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Priceless - truly Priceless ...
 
sprog said:
Being a Marine is a big lifestyle choice, and it really has to be something you want badly ("The Few, The Proud," etc.). I'm guessing that a lot of guys at USMMA don't fall into that boat (probably true of most USNA mids, too).
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sprog: Exactly. I've known many active duty and retired USMC folks in my life and your characterization is right on. Great people but they are all very much Marines. Also don't forget by the time a Kings Pointer who wants to go into the Maritime Industry returns to Campus after his/her second sea year they have a year of real world maritime industry experience. In other words they clearly understand what aspects of the regimental side of things are and frankly are not relevant to the future careers they wish to pursue... That only makes the whole situation harder to take if you are one of those young men or women.
 
I'll agree with the above posts. I'm currently living in the USMMA's finest '1st Marine Division' as well. I had 4 years of MCJROTC in HS and graduated as BX and I greatly respect both my COs as fine Marines.
However, they have NO place as company officers here and definitly cannot be considered "competent mariners", which is number 2 on the qualities list when completing a MIDN evaluation of a CO. They are not approachable, have NO idea what we do here, and have no concept of the MERCHANT in front of the US _____ Marine Academy. The leadership of almost the entire school is so regiment-focused hoorah that I believe they consider this school another VMI or West Point.
Time for them to read the mission statement that we learned verbatim during indoc..."to educate and graduate MERCHANT MARINE OFFICERS AND LEADERS OF HONOR AND INTEGRITY".


It is pretty amusing to notice how every EX-USMC or oorah officer avoids the waterfront like the plaque :)
 
wakefreek617 said:
It is pretty amusing to notice how every EX-USMC or oorah officer avoids the waterfront like the plaque :)
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wakefreek617: I think you meant plague unless of course you are talking about the plaque one gets on their teeth.....:wink:

I recently had the opportunity to ask Captain Fell if he had any plans to try and get ALL of his staff out to sea on commercial merchant ship at some point early in their tenure as COs so they might sea and understand the environs which they are training midshipmen to lead in. I'm sure it would be eye opening for them to see and understand what must transpire for one to competently and effectively lead a crew on unionized, unlicensed civilian mariners. He really didn't answer other than to comment that he did agree that would probably be a good idea but the schedule would continue to make that difficult. I really think such knowledge and experience should be prerequisite to offering them the positions they are now filling.
 
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