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This is the same Air Force that gives out a ribbon when officers complete a school...
The USAF Lobby strikes again
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Bullet
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Examples please. I've attended a ton of schools during my days in the AF, and all I got was a hearty hand-shake. Oh, except one. The one school I've received my wings for. A little tougher than a PA course, so I guess getting a hunk of metal to wear on my chest for it is justified.
Bullet
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Oh, and by the way, most of the AF folks I know are in agreement with the majority posting here on this: Should they get a medal for exceptional work? Certainly. Should it be higher than a simple Commendation Medal? Not on your life.
My buds and I have all been in agreement on Medals for RPA operators for a long while. They can get some high ranking ones when they have a guy standing behind them rolling a pair of dice when they get shot down. "Ooohhh, looks like you got a 6. That means we get to shoot you in the leg. Oh-oh, you sensor operator rolled an 11. Looks like a head shot."
My buds and I have all been in agreement on Medals for RPA operators for a long while. They can get some high ranking ones when they have a guy standing behind them rolling a pair of dice when they get shot down. "Ooohhh, looks like you got a 6. That means we get to shoot you in the leg. Oh-oh, you sensor operator rolled an 11. Looks like a head shot."
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Guys I went to DINFOS with from USAF all had the same ribbon. Asked what it was, and was told it was a training ribbon for a school they went to. Not for their DINFOS stuff (there they got a pin, only branch to give out pins for a 2.5 month course, by the way).
That's completely different than the fun little pins they get for their specialties.
Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't get a ribbon for going to a school. I didn't get a pin for going to DINFOS. I guess a 60 year old org needs special medals, ribbons and pins. My uniform looked pretty boring.
raimius
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I think LITS meant this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Training_Ribbon
It's another "thanks for playing" award. IMO, there are far too many of them. I have 5 ribbons, and I consider 4 of them "thanks for playing" ribbons. The other was an organizational award, so that was more for other people's hard work than for me.
I'm in complete agreement that this new medal should not be above the Bronze Star (especially the with Valor ones!). I can see commendation type medals for doing a really good job at blowing up bad guys from distant places, but in no way should it be valued above medals for actual combat heroism.
It's another "thanks for playing" award. IMO, there are far too many of them. I have 5 ribbons, and I consider 4 of them "thanks for playing" ribbons. The other was an organizational award, so that was more for other people's hard work than for me.
I'm in complete agreement that this new medal should not be above the Bronze Star (especially the with Valor ones!). I can see commendation type medals for doing a really good job at blowing up bad guys from distant places, but in no way should it be valued above medals for actual combat heroism.
GoArmyBeatNavy
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USMA2020
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Could someone please explain this to me? I supported, but mostly ignored the military until October when God finally got my attention about His plans, so I really don't follow a lot of this, even though I am burying myself in military stuff.
scoutpilot
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...backing away slowly.
NorwichDad
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Luigi59
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He didn't explain the thread when he revealed his plan? Perhaps he wants you to read the entire thread to better understand what is being discussed?
GoArmyBeatNavy
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USMA2020,
In the military, service members receive awards for different actions or experiences.
Very generally speaking, there are two major kinds of awards. Those for combat and those for everything else.
Currently, the combat awards are: The Medal of Honor (MOH), The Distinguished Service Cross (Known as the Navy Cross or Air Force Cross as well), The Silver Star, The Bronze Star and the Service/Department Commendation Medal (Army Commendation Medal, Navy Commendation Medal). The order of precedence of these awards are the MOH, Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Commendation Medal. Additionally, the Bronze Star and the Commendation medal can have a V Device (V is for valor as those two awards can be given for periods of service or achievement as well) awarded with it to signify valorous actions in combat.
The new medal would be considered a combat award and it would be placed higher in precedence than the Bronze Star Medal.
Many of those who have served in combat find fault with this because the stipulations for the award allow it to be given to individuals who operate remotely piloted vehicles from non-combat soil. (e.g. an Air Force pilot operating a remotely piloted vehicle from Nevada.) Additionally, many of those find fault because they had attempted to get a medal awarded to a service member of a lower rank and we unable to get any award higher than the service commendation medal.
That is a broad and probably partially inaccurate breakdown. Additionally, the other services like to make fun of the Air Force
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Excellent summary- thanks for breaking this down so succinctly and in a civil mannerUSMA2020,
In the military, service members receive awards for different actions or experiences.
Very generally speaking, there are two major kinds of awards. Those for combat and those for everything else.
Currently, the combat awards are: The Medal of Honor (MOH), The Distinguished Service Cross (Known as the Navy Cross or Air Force Cross as well), The Silver Star, The Bronze Star and the Service/Department Commendation Medal (Army Commendation Medal, Navy Commendation Medal). The order of precedence of these awards are the MOH, Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Commendation Medal. Additionally, the Bronze Star and the Commendation medal can have a V Device (V is for valor as those two awards can be given for periods of service or achievement as well) awarded with it to signify valorous actions in combat.
The new medal would be considered a combat award and it would be placed higher in precedence than the Bronze Star Medal.
Many of those who have served in combat find fault with this because the stipulations for the award allow it to be given to individuals who operate remotely piloted vehicles from non-combat soil. (e.g. an Air Force pilot operating a remotely piloted vehicle from Nevada.) Additionally, many of those find fault because they had attempted to get a medal awarded to a service member of a lower rank and we unable to get any award higher than the service commendation medal.
That is a broad and probably partially inaccurate breakdown. Additionally, the other services like to make fun of the Air Force
USMCGrunt
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Agreed. I am sure the poster will appreciate the answer.
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I haven't seen the actual criteria for what it would be awarded for (just some superficial examples), however, I can see how its placement can be appropriate -- from a cyber perspective. You all are the first to laugh or make fun of someone sitting at a computer, but some day down the road, when someone can get good I&W that a cyber attack is about to occur and certain things can be done to defend it or go on the offensive and prevents critical military or civilian infrastructure from damage/disruption or could reek havoc on the enemy's network, I think that action might be more deserving of an award senior to the Bronze Star because the scope of the impact is wider and could cause a major degradation in the enemy's C2.
Could it have been placed below the Bronze Star? Possibly, however, maybe the SECDEF and J1 were thinking about the scope. Does it mean a drone pilot or cyber expert should get this medal for what they do on a day-to-day basis -- probably not.
Also, the award requires the Service Secretary approval, let's be realistic, someone doing their day-to-day job isn't going to be awarded this medal.
I guess we will have to wait and see who the first awardee is and the justification.
Could it have been placed below the Bronze Star? Possibly, however, maybe the SECDEF and J1 were thinking about the scope. Does it mean a drone pilot or cyber expert should get this medal for what they do on a day-to-day basis -- probably not.
Also, the award requires the Service Secretary approval, let's be realistic, someone doing their day-to-day job isn't going to be awarded this medal.
I guess we will have to wait and see who the first awardee is and the justification.
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tpg,
I think cyber effects are just as important as those accomplishing other missions in theater and I would definitely not put them in the same category as combat support personnel (though, those people are extremely important, as well). Remember, cyber has no geographic boundaries and can be done practically from anywhere. Cyber effects can cause some serious problems that could help those on the ground, could cause significant ability for the enemy to C2 and the ramifications on the defensive side are just as serious to our infrastructure. I can only see that scope or the "size of the effect" of the awardee's action was a reason to make this senior to the Bronze Star.
I would never want to compare these two medals, each are/would be distinct -- apples and oranges.
I just look at impacts somewhat like of what was reported ("leaked") in the news a handful of months ago of something that would fall in those lines. I'm not saying that example necessarily qualifies, but something along those lines, if DoD personnel are involved.
Obviously, regardless of these medals, the risk to one's self is a lot different sitting at a computer in the U.S. or sitting in a foxhole and being shot at. In no way should these medals make us think for one second of the different personal risks involved or take them for granted.
I think cyber effects are just as important as those accomplishing other missions in theater and I would definitely not put them in the same category as combat support personnel (though, those people are extremely important, as well). Remember, cyber has no geographic boundaries and can be done practically from anywhere. Cyber effects can cause some serious problems that could help those on the ground, could cause significant ability for the enemy to C2 and the ramifications on the defensive side are just as serious to our infrastructure. I can only see that scope or the "size of the effect" of the awardee's action was a reason to make this senior to the Bronze Star.
I would never want to compare these two medals, each are/would be distinct -- apples and oranges.
I just look at impacts somewhat like of what was reported ("leaked") in the news a handful of months ago of something that would fall in those lines. I'm not saying that example necessarily qualifies, but something along those lines, if DoD personnel are involved.
Obviously, regardless of these medals, the risk to one's self is a lot different sitting at a computer in the U.S. or sitting in a foxhole and being shot at. In no way should these medals make us think for one second of the different personal risks involved or take them for granted.
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Pima
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Yet, they placed this medal in the AF above the Bronze.
There are guys like Captain Eric Das (Boots) that get a Bronze posthumously while giving their life while flying an F15E mission over Iraq.
His medal in the AF spectrum would be lower than the RPA pilot.
He didn'r go home every night to his house in Goldsboro after an 8 hr day. He wasn't able to go out to dinner at Olive Garden just because he was in the mood for their bread sticks.
I think this is more about the RPA community's image/respect in the AF from the puzzle palace's POV.
OBTW, let's remember how promotion boards work for the AF. The RPA pilot will be up against all rated officers for O4. That medal will be seen higher than a bronze that a pilot who was in Iraq being shot at.
To me, fine give the medal, but not above a bronze, make it equivalent at the most. Your life was never at risk. You did your job just like that pilot downrange. Where was your daily life impacted? Did you sleep in your bed last night, kissed your kids in the morning, celebrated every anniversary, birthday in your family? Yes! What personal sacrifice did you or your family endure? Yet, they get a bronze, and you get a higher one?
Not surprising, I am with Bullet, while they are doing their job, somebody behind them should roll the dice (Vegas afterall) and depending on what they roll, you must endure the results. 6 lose a leg. 3 sleep in a tent outside the flight line for a month while reporting to work. That is what they are doing when they are downrange.
There are guys like Captain Eric Das (Boots) that get a Bronze posthumously while giving their life while flying an F15E mission over Iraq.
His medal in the AF spectrum would be lower than the RPA pilot.
He didn'r go home every night to his house in Goldsboro after an 8 hr day. He wasn't able to go out to dinner at Olive Garden just because he was in the mood for their bread sticks.
I think this is more about the RPA community's image/respect in the AF from the puzzle palace's POV.
OBTW, let's remember how promotion boards work for the AF. The RPA pilot will be up against all rated officers for O4. That medal will be seen higher than a bronze that a pilot who was in Iraq being shot at.
To me, fine give the medal, but not above a bronze, make it equivalent at the most. Your life was never at risk. You did your job just like that pilot downrange. Where was your daily life impacted? Did you sleep in your bed last night, kissed your kids in the morning, celebrated every anniversary, birthday in your family? Yes! What personal sacrifice did you or your family endure? Yet, they get a bronze, and you get a higher one?
Not surprising, I am with Bullet, while they are doing their job, somebody behind them should roll the dice (Vegas afterall) and depending on what they roll, you must endure the results. 6 lose a leg. 3 sleep in a tent outside the flight line for a month while reporting to work. That is what they are doing when they are downrange.
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scoutpilot
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I just laughed so hard I shot hot coffee up my nose.
Wonder if SECDEF Nominee and bronze star recipient Chuck Hagel would have handled this differently than Leon Panetta?
Pima
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scout,
They don't call the AF the corporate branch for nuttin!
C'mon, I love the AF, but tenting it for them is undue punishment.
cb,
Seeing as Hagel didn't know our policy on containment, and had to be corrected by a Sen after he was corrected by a note slipped to him. I am not sure he would understand this issue.
They don't call the AF the corporate branch for nuttin!
C'mon, I love the AF, but tenting it for them is undue punishment. cb,
Seeing as Hagel didn't know our policy on containment, and had to be corrected by a Sen after he was corrected by a note slipped to him. I am not sure he would understand this issue.