This is why fitness matters

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by scoutpilot, May 5, 2015.

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  1. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Because when you're not fit, you end up looking like a joke, collapsing in front of your soldiers, using your weapon as a crutch while putting your face over the muzzle. 12-mile ruck marches are a semi-annual requirement for every MOS, and a quarterly requirement for almost all Operations MOSs in the Army.

    Don't be this officer.

    http://www.stripes.com/news/army/vi...er-who-refuses-to-give-up-goes-viral-1.344233
     
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  2. Boozebin

    Boozebin Member

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    Hey Scout a little confused by what the article says and what you're saying. Just looking for clarification I am completely clueless when it comes to Army requirements and just want to educate myself.

    The article say this:

    Mason said Cudd serves with Army Public Health Command at Fort Knox, Ky. The march was the last event required to earn the Army's Expert Field Medical Badge, a decoration awarded to those who pass a rigorous battery of tests for medical professionals in the Army. Less than 25 percent of those who attempt the required course typically pass.

    The Public Health Command shared the video May 1, and confirmed Cudd earned the badge. Forty-five other soldiers did the same day — but 80 percent of those who attempted the course fell short.​

    It implies, to me at least, that they (Army Public Health Command) doesn't do this often or just for the badge. And it also suggest a high failure rate. Which I would think is way high considering what you're saying it's a semi-annual requirement.
     
  3. EagleScout13

    EagleScout13 USMA Class of 2017

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    He's saying that a 12 mile ruck march shouldn't be that difficult, and that's not the reason most people fail the EFMB. I agree with Scout, it's something every officer should be able to do regardless of MOS.
     
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  4. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    But Scout, I was told by the news people this morning that this video was "inspiring."
     
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  5. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    EagleScout gets it.
     
  6. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    I asked my son about this. He said it does not matter who you are or what you use. You always finish the mission. He said a 12 mile Ruck which he has done many many times is about the worst thing you can do to your body. It sometimes gives out. He said he has seen countless people collase within 30 yards of the finish. He said in these Med Units there are heros sitting on logs at mile 2, 3 and 4 waiting for the truck to pick them up. The Captain completed the mission and got the badge. Congrats to her. I guess she is not someone to quit when it will really matter and when there are no camaras.
     
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  7. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Haven't watched the video so not sure if it's a Doc or some other health person, but as a related aside:

    Do you really care if your Army Doctor can complete a 12 mile ruck? I'd much rather have a fat, highly competent and skilled physician than worry if they can complete a certain physical fitness event.

    Baseline fitness as a staff puke (including myself here) I get, but let's not forget what the priorities should be.
     
  8. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    Well, some Army doctors work far, far away from Walter Reed
     
  9. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Two thoughts.

    1. A 12-mile ruck with collapsing like it's the Bataan Death March is basic fitness.

    2. It ultimately doesn't matter if we philosophically "care" about whether a doctor or lawyer can do any one specific task. What we absolutely do and always should care about is that fact that we have standards, and that these people volunteered for this job. No one held a gun to their heads and made them join the Army. They were not conscripted. They made the choice to join the Army, with all that being an Army officer entails. In the immortal words of GEN Bernard Rogers, former CSA:

    “This is a volunteer force. Soldiers volunteer to meet our standards. If they don’t meet them, we should thank them for trying and send them home.”

    If you're an Army doctor, you take the paycheck. You took the loan payoffs. You'll take the ridiculously generous defined benefit plan. So you damn well had better meet our standards like the officer and leader you're paid to be and that you agreed you would be when you signed on the dotted line.

    Whether those standards are the right ones is a different question, and one an officer doesn't get to decide at mile marker 11. That's the time to demonstrate that you're meeting your obligations as an officer, not to flail about like some starved prisoner on a forced march from the Gulag.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
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  10. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    And this response is why there will always be a huge disconnect between the Line and Staff, especially Medical. This is why the Army, in particular, will take someone they paid millions of dollars to train, say a pediatric cancer surgeon, and make them a battalion surgeon pushing papers for two years and let the skills they trained the person for rot away.

    The EFMP is not a mandatory event. A 12 mile ruck is not a mandatory event and in my opinion is not a test of basic fitness.

    And many would be more than happy to take up GEN Rogers on his offer of letting them go home.

    Passing the PFT is the requirement, not the EFMP, or ranger course, or airborne, or whatever other course.

    I'd still rather have the out of standards trauma surgeon who knows his stuff than the 'high speed, flat top, tab wearing but couldn't finish a residency GMO' as the doc back at the FOB. But that's just me :) (yes, a little hyperbole, but not too far off in some circumstances)
     
  11. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Except that it is. Twice annually. I thought that was pretty clear.

    As would I. We're just gonna need that money for your education back, doc.

    The simple fact remains: if you don't want to meet Army standards, don't join the Army. You'd think people smart enough to pass some form of medical school could come to that realization early and often, and yet here we are.
     
  12. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    In case anyone wonders I looked, she is a veterinarian.

    I give her my full support for completing the EFMB! I don't understand those who are lambasting her for struggling to finish the ruck.
     
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  13. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

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    If you look at the time she crossed (2:47ish), she exceeded EFMB standards, Air Assault standards, and 18th Airborne Corps standards. So I disagree with your take of not meeting "basic fitness." Also, she was not required to earn the EFMB. That medical officer went above and beyond their daily scope for personal (and maybe unit pride).

    I'm not going to clown her for being physically exhausted. Anything from hypoglycemia to dehydration could have played a factor to her staggering to the finish line. The key point is she volunteered to earn the badge and she met and exceeded the standard.

    There was no need to launch a personal attack on an officer who didn't appear overweight and exceeds fitness goals.

    I'm disappointed with this thread...
     
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Well technically, I believe it is.
     
  15. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    When did this get added? I've never heard of my Army physician friends talking about a long march and they certainly didn't have to when I was at a joint command through 2007. I can't find anything direct online about it, but I don't know the Army sites like I do the Navy.


    I think you'd be surprised at the number of physicians who'd be happy to take that offer(myself not included). The military would probably lose over 50% of all specialists and higher percentage of sub specialists of those in mid career year groups. The above thinking is just one of many reasons many in the medical commands aren't so happy these days.
     
  16. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

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    Dr. Scout,

    EFMB is not mandatory. There are no EFMB slotted positions in the Army. Many Soldiers will not get the opportunity to attend EFMB during their contract. Why are you trying to argue the expectations of earning a medical badge with medical officers?
     
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    You're not going to find 350-1 publications online. It's been that way for years.


    Truly inspiring sense of service.
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Mr. MabryPsyD,

    Reread the post.
     
  19. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    I wish they all did so the Navy could have Bethesda back :)

    I'm pretty sure of all the people on this site I'm one of the most well in tune with where physicians of all the services serve. I served alongside, but separate, from several great Army docs in Iraq at a CSH in Iraq.

    I also know how the Army has sent out at least two solicitations for a civilian to fill the job of Pediatric Ophthalmologist at Bethesda/Walter Reed because they sent theirs to be a brigade surgeon (surgeon in this instance does not refer to someone who operates) in El Paso, TX. (Just an example of what I was talking about above.)
     
  20. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    This wasn't a SF assessment where they don't tell you where the finish line is. I am sure everybody knew that they had to do a 12 mile road march. I don't recall practice road marches as a part of training for my EIB, but I marched on my own to get ready. I seen Infantry guys failing 12 mile road marches during the EIB. We encouraged slow soldiers during our road marches. I road marched on my own to get ready for Ranger School.

    Leaders should prepare and set examples, not meet a standard barely. A EFMB candidate finishing the road march in time is meeting a standard, nothing special.
     
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