Transferring from U.S. Naval Academy to NROTC

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by 3sacrowd, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. 3sacrowd

    3sacrowd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm seeking information and am trying to get some help

    I want to know if you know of or hear of, seen...anything...about transferring from USNA (in good standing) to NROTC (after plebe year is through), and what their experience was like. This thread will get super, super long if there are tons of why questions as I know people are wondering and back and forth arguing for or against each.

    I'm just wondering if anybody on here knows of scholarship opportunities, what NROTC would think, favorable? or no? I know people transfer into NROTC their sophomore year and they have to do the accelerated program over the summer to catch up, but since coming for USNA, would you have to do that?

    Thank you much in advance
     
  2. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    136
    One of the big myths is that many midshipmen who discover that USNA is "just not for me" end up voluntarily separating and enroll in an NROTC scholarship program. Actually, that does not happen very often.

    QUITTING the Naval Academy is certainly a "black mark" on your record as far as successfully competing for an NROTC scholarship. It calls into question just how badly the individual wants to be a naval officer. If they truly wanted to serve their country as a naval officer ... and they successfully competed to be admitted into the Navy's premiere officer training program ... and they quit even though they were doing well at the academy ... it calls into question why they quit. What was it about the Naval Academy they didn't like? All that military "stuff"?

    Having said that - I'm sure such transitions have been made. But I would not assume that if you were good enough for the Naval Academy that the NROTC scholarship program will scramble to embrace you. You can probably get into NROTC, but the full scholarship will be difficult to get.
     
  3. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    5
    Not sure what you mean.. NROTC scholarships are all or nothing.... that is 100% of tuition+fees, or nothing. At the end of sophomore year, the non-scholarship mid is evaluated for suitability to continue to Advanced Course, or be disenrolled from NROTC. I only point this out b/c AFROTC does have a majority of "partial scholarships", if you want to call them that, that cap at $18,000 per school year, that can be used at schools with $41,000 annual tuition.

    I agree with you that the probability of an NROTC non-scholarship mid (who had voluntarily left the USNA) getting an in-college scholarship during Sophomore year is pretty low.
     
  4. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    136
    Yes, I realize that it is all or nothing. I said "full scholarship" to emphasize that it is, in fact, a full scholarship - like the Naval Academy.

    My point is that it is not very likely that you'll go from one of the Navy's full scholarship programs (at USNA) to another one of the Navy's full scholarship programs (NROTC) after quitting.
     
  5. 3sacrowd

    3sacrowd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you were to leave in good standing and still wanted to do NROTC wouldn't that say more about the school itself though, not the desire to serve, especially when one is repeatedly told a lot that "The Academy is nothing like the fleet?"

    Is it that looked down upon by the outside community, not the Academy and its grads, if you leave the Academy?
    I'm asking this because I keep hearing two-sides to most subjects and it's usually those who came from the Academy and those who did not. I'm just confused.
     
  6. Dad

    Dad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    57
    Not really. It would just mean that USNA was not a good fit for you.

    You can't make this type of decision based upon what others will think. Stay or go, but do it for the right reasons. Check out http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=21986 for more recommendations from those who have gone before you. Best wishes for a wise decision. :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  7. BR2011

    BR2011 USAFA Cadet

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    9
    Dude, don't let cynical firsties affect your attitude. I went through 4 years at CGA hearing the same crap and came out fine on the other end despite all of the things I did that "weren't like the fleet." Yes, you will spend 4 years doing stupid things that have no direct lesson or application to being an officer, but learning to tolerate the stress those things cause is the most important thing you learn at the Academies. You won't see the affect it's having on you until you get out of that environment. I interned at the NSA and worked with civilians whose 100% speed didn't even come close to my "taking it easy today" speed when it comes to getting things done and I attribute that all to CGA. You're in a good commissioning program already, stick with it.
     
  8. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,758
    Likes Received:
    1,009

    This is what the French would say is "le Wise".

    I agree. Many many things you do at an academy are stupid. People will say "this isn't what the fleet is like".... until you get to the fleet and realize they even do some dumb things in the fleet.... and then you leave the fleet and the service and you realize the whole world is full of dumb things. My current landlord and her family are dumb. EZ Pass can be dumb. My feedback about my broken iPhone that asked for my phone number for a call back (to a broken phone) was dumb.

    I can't help but think "but why did you REALLY leave" when I hear from people who quit. For some people it just makes sense. For some people an academy just isn't the right fit. That said, understanding that for some military service wasn't their end goal, I don't think it HELPS to leave a service academy for an ROTC program. I'm not saying it kills your chances. I had more than one classmate who left CGA and eventually went AFROTC or NROTC... but it isn't the "norm".
     
  9. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    I can't say for NROTC, but if it is similiar to AROTC, the Professor of Military Science (PMS) (or whatever NROTC calls it) should have a big role in you participating or getting NROTC scholarship.

    So PMS can

    (1) whatever, he has the qualification, he is in
    (2) he is a "quitter," so no

    If I was the PMS, I will dig into why Naval Academy isn't for you but NROTC is.

    We could make a sports analogy, a good soccer player wants to leave her travel club team to join another club team.
     
  10. 3sacrowd

    3sacrowd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wait so the professor of military science can deny you into the program?...For coming from an Academy? Hmm, that sucks.

    It's not really cynical firsties as I actually have little of those, and I don't interact that much with upperclassmen anyway. It's more of a personal thing. I'm leaving right now. I'm gonna finish the year to make sure I have time to think and at least give it a year. I did like the soccer analogy though.
    I was just thinking that since the graduation rate is only like 80% then maybe somewhere in that 20% were successful transitions to NROTC
     
  11. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    136
    I'm sure somewhere in that 20% (which I think is a little high), there is probably a few NROTC transitions. But I'll bet it's very few and even fewer scholarship types.

    Not all 20% are quitters, by the way.

    Don't forget, there is a difference between being separated and quitting. We're talking about leaving when you could stay as opposed to leaving because you are forced to.
     
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    Attrition at USNA these days is 10-12% total for four years.

    During my time (when attrition was 22-25%), we lost a few first and second year (mostly during and right after PS) b/c USNA wasn't right for them -- to my knowledge, most did not go ROTC. For them, a military environment wasn't right and since ROTC results in a commission, that wasn't really a good option.

    However, the overwhelming majority after plebe summer left for one of three reasons: (1) academics, (2) conduct, (3) honor. Academics was by far the biggest "killer."

    I would consider what it is about USNA that you don't like. Do you think that issue/those issues will substantially change in the "real" Navy or USMC? You might just get away from them for 3-4 yrs in ROTC but then face another 5+ in the military where you won't have the option of leaving (well, not easily). IOW, you might jump out of the frying pan, onto the counter for a few minutes, and then into the fire.:smile:
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    That is the best analogy I've read regarding leaving a SA for ROTC.

    When my older son started AROTC 5 years ago there were 3 new cadets at orientation that had left WP, two went to Beast and left before classes started and one left after the first year. I remember the ROO was very excited that he had these 3 new cadets that had either attended or had been appointed to WP. I talked later with the PMS and mentioned the three cadets and asked if he thought they would be a boost to the program, I was surprised when he smiled and said "we'll see".

    By the end of that year all three of these cadets had dropped the program. It had turned out that it was more the military they weren't comfortable with, once it became clear that the outcome is the same no matter where you get you commission.
     
  14. 3sacrowd

    3sacrowd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Appreciate the advice guys

    If I were to leave the reason wouldn't be for being separated, academics, or conduct (at least not that I know of haha), it'd honestly be just because I (would) want to leave. And sorry wasn't trying to twist the numbers, but attrition rate here is a little on the lower side.
    I know it kinda seems impossible but I've been basically digging through the internet and find stories of people who have successfully transitioned

    Like in this thread this is a success story in this forum (I can't post links yet):
    "I knew a student who applied to and was accepted to the Naval Academy.
    He left in his fourth class year. Came home continued his education at a Community College and applied to Navy ROTC. He was accepted to a great NAVY ROTC College and he graduated, and now flies jets for the Navy.
    Hope this helps"

    and there was a good one too on College Confidential but I can't link it

    I know it's not likely but you know maybe still a chance. I don't believe it's the "military stuff" that turns me off honestly. But even if it is wouldn't it be better to go to a school, do NROTC and if I end up still hating it, then just stop and still be able to graduate with a degree from a good college, then just be left in the dry here?
    Again I'm not making any decisions right now, I just can't see myself here.
     
  15. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    I knew a guy that knew a guy that did XYZ

    Not sure what you are looking for from this forum?

    Ultimately, it's your decision. Whoever left the Naval Academy and successfully tranisitioned into NROTC is not you. So if you hear "claims" of successful transition, that doesn't mean your planned transition will be also successful. Internet forums are are not a good source of reliable data.

    You are absolutely correct, if Naval Academy is not for you for whatever reason you need to leave.

    A friend of mine left West Point after first semester, did AROTC, and is a great Army officer. He told me me he left West Point because it wasn't military enough. Being more experienced now, he also told me that if he had to do it again, he would have stayed at West Point
     
  16. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,758
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    If anyone comes away from their first year thinking "YES this is EXACTLY what I hopped it would be.... I'm having so much fun and all of my wildest expectations have been met" I would think one of two things happened.... either the individual needs to be evaluated for some serious issues or two, the school has gone soft.

    This first year sucks. I had many conversations about leaving. I hated it.

    The next year got a little better (ok, much better).

    The next year was even better.

    The last year, we were pros.

    I graduated, went to a ship and thought, "hey, this isn't so bad." About a year into it I hated it. I hated it until I transfered, and then for the next three years loved it.

    Nothings perfect. It's not unique to the military either.

    I see very little reason to leave USNA to attend NROTC. If you wanted to enlist, fine. But if your end goal is being an officer in the Navy or Marine Corps... that door was opened and you walked through it. If you walk back out, another door may not be oppened (especially in this fiscal climate).
     
  17. 3sacrowd

    3sacrowd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was just looking for input without much ridicule, as I'd get ridiculed here

    I'm just gonna do what's best for me and I'll decide later next semester what I'm going to do. Just gonna have to think a lot and hope the rents and extended family don't toss me away haha.
     
  18. EagleDriver

    EagleDriver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    6
    After catching up and reading all the other posts...i would suggest that you re- evaluate your thoughts as to why you want to transfer after your first year.
    Why did you apply in the first place? Remember when you applied many months ago and why you applied? Whats clicking in your mind about thinking of leaving but still earning a commission? Is the Academy life so bad that you want a "civilian" college life with the ROTC route? I went the AF ROTC...route...and yes it was EASY! my scores etc..was not up to par for a SA appointment...I told my son..he can take the HARD route...the route LESS traveled or the easy route...ROTC...I don't mean to undermine ROTC..but face it...its only two days a week...no room inspections etc..no parade reviews on weekends etc...no restrictions of any kind compared to the SA. We were just above a 90 day wonder...But I also told my son that if he takes the hard route...the SA...he will have to stick it out...but no shame if he washes out due to academics...his first year was also challenging...2nd year is much BETTER....I would hope that you will stick it out until your 2nd year before seriously thinking of transferring...there is a two yr ROTC scholarship option route...so you would not lose any ground whatnot. But remember...if you're wanting to leave is because the SA life is not for you...and you want a regular civilian college life...hats off to you to make the right choice for you and everyone else...it takes courage to face up to your expectations etc...in any event...you can't go wrong finishing what you started at USNA...especially if you still want a commission in the Navy via ROTC. If you were my kid...i would ask you again...why? if its because you want a easier normal civilian college route...i would advice you to stick it out...you won't regret it I think. Remember.....SA graduation is achieved by only the elite...when you applied...the admission process was in place to pick the few that they hoped have thoroughly thought it through that the SA was what they dreamed of. That dream is to graduate...the process of getting to that dream was not going to be easy...but when you graduate I think you will find unsurpassed satisfaction that you've ENDURED that only a few can claim. good luck...i hope to hear that you changed your mind...if not...remember it takes just as much courage to walk away.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  19. icarus

    icarus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best of luck to you and your future endeavors.

    I believe that the majority of those that join and utilize this forum are most interested in getting accepted into a Service Academy,ROTC and/or Prep School and not how to get out of a much coveted position. As it have been repeatedly stated, your position is not unique. Most cadets in their first year at one time or another think of quitting and going off another route. I know of three in my DS's squad who outprocessed for reasons such as:
    "it's not for me", "I can do better in a civilian college", "it's not what i thought it was gonna be".
    Without your disclosure of why you want out?, what other input do you expect?
     
  20. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,758
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    People will write what they want, possible without spoon feeding it. If you were looking for a specific response, you need to provide more information, beyond emo "I don't want to but I don't know, but I'm not happy...."

    In the end, it's your decision. And as many people who leave find out, your parents and family will still love you.
     

Share This Page