Transferring

True, but it's pretty hard to go inverted in a helicopter. As I'm sure you know, there's just an aura around flying a fighter jet. I'm sure I'll end up loving doing whatever I'm assigned to do though.

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The Army has a TON of helicopters, doing varied missions, and a few fixed wing aircraft (mostly ISR and DV transport, if I read correctly).

The Air Force has the most fixed wing aircraft, running the gambit from ISR to refueling to air superiority. The Air Force also has a few helicopters for rescue, security, and spec-ops (I'll count CV-22s as helos here...sort of).

The Navy and Marines also have a lot of tactical aviation, and some recon/C2 birds, as well.

If you want to fly fighters, pick Air Force or Navy/Marines. The Army doesn't have fighters.

Trying to switch services after doing one or more tours is very rare, especially in the flying world. The AF has age limits for pilot training, and you would likely need a waiver. From an AF perspective, if probably isn't worth it, unless they are hurting for people (we're currently trying to cut 25,000).
 
Sounds like I should be hoping for another appointment.

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Fighters are fun, pure and simple. They are a PAIN to employ effectively; ask Bullet about his drivers...it's a BIT*H!!! If you think you're hot stuff, you ain't seen nothing like "playing the piccolo!"

Heavies are performing their wartime/global mission daily! They're doing the job, 34/7/365, fighters are NOT.

While fighters are sexy (I was blessed to fly both) the heavy mission was, to me, more satisfying.

Just my thoughts...I still like the Viking Departure in my Eagle...beats the heck outta whatever is second!!!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
"Hates Lawn Darts!"
 
There's a difference between flying a 737 over Nebraska and an f-15 at mach 2 over the Persian gulf :D, my goal is not simply to fly, rather to push the limits of our aircraft and to use them as weapons against the enemy. So in conclusion, I do not simply wish to fly.

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If that's your goal, then pursue it the best you can. I sincerely hope you get it. But if it doesn't work out and you end up a helo/airlift/tanker/RPA pilot, or nav, or non-flyer...don't be that bitter guy who gives zero effort and takes every opportunity to explain how the Air Force "screwed him over". Every non-fighter squadron seems to have one of those guys. And frankly, they're a pain in the a** to work with. We don't need any more of them.


Off my soap box...
 
Oh no, I wouldn't do that. I would fly my apache/ command my Abrams happily, but as I watch the f-18s fly over, I would sigh and think of what could have been.

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flieger83 said:
USMA grads do fly army helo's; I know one very well and I know a young lady at USMA, Class of '14, that has been selected for aviation and heads to Ft Rucker after graduation.

They DO?!? :eek:

Also, I think flying helicopters in direct support of ground troops is pretty cool but that's just me...

Beats the pants off anything else you can do with an aircraft.


We were about due for another thread where the OP can't be told anything. Good stuff.

"It's hard to go inverted in a helicopter." Good lord, I'm saving that one.
 
Oh no, I wouldn't do that. I would fly my apache/ command my Abrams happily, but as I watch the f-18s fly over, I would sigh and think of what could have been.

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Then stay the hell out of the Army. Army aviation isn't your "gimme" backup plan. You're more likely to end up with a truck platoon.

You certainly wouldn't be in an Apache with that attitude, and with how little you know about flying or the military, less is more on the commentary side right now.
 
It is very "dangerous" to enter any SA with only one career option in mind, especially if it's aviation. Too many things can happen that can eliminate that service selection. When I was at USNA, a guy wanted only to be a pilot; blew out his knee in a football game and was no longer physically qualified for pilot. He was very bitter about the situation and never really came to peace with his alternate choice.

Know someone else who really wanted subs but didn't have the grades. Know someone who finished first in his aviation class (and thus should get his first choice) and wanted X platform (jet). The service said the top two guys in the class are being sent to Y platform (not a jet). He went to Y platform.

It's fine to really want something and to drive toward that goal. But you need to be realistic about things not happening. There are medical issues, academic issues and the ever-popular "needs of the [fill in your service]." If the ONLY reason you plan to enter a SA -- any SA -- is to do X, you may want to reconsider. As with applying to an SA -- need to have a Plan B.
 
Not understanding the "attitude" that I have? Asking if there are ways to fly jets coming out of WP, because that's where I'm appointed, and because flying jets is what I want to do. The judgment on these forums is crazy. I can't tell you how many PM's I've gotten from people who tell me something helpful, but then say that they can't put it on the thread because all they do is get torn apart. Get off your pedestal, you are no better than I am, or anyone else for that matter.

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JayceGuy --

People here are trying to be helpful. It's fine that you want to fly jets. And we understand that USMA is currently your only appointment. What folks are trying to explain, based on experience, is that those two things are largely (if not completely) mutually exclusive.

Based on the experience of those who have attended SAs, you have to be "all in" for the one you're attending -- and even that isn't often enough. And, folks who've been there also know that the desire to be a jet pilot, SEAL, intel officer, doctor, or whatever one wants to do may not be sufficient -- for reasons entirely out of the individual's control.

It seems that you want someone here to tell you that you can attend USMA and then easily and readily transfer to the USAF or USN where you can fly jets. And, based on the collective experience of those you've asked, that simply isn't realistic. Folks have tried to offer alternatives -- great things you can do in the US Army other than fly jets or ways other than USMA you can pursue your desire to fly jets.

It's not a question of "being better" than you -- but many of those on these boards are much more experienced, both in the ways of the SAs and the military and are trying to provide you with the benefit of those experiences.
 
For the most part I have seen some very informative posts, but when people tell me that I "won't be flying apaches with that attitude", I get pretty pissed. Everyone else has been great other than the few who offer no solutions, only ridicule.

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For the most part I have seen some very informative posts, but when people tell me that I "won't be flying apaches with that attitude", I get pretty pissed. Everyone else has been great other than the few who offer no solutions, only ridicule.

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I wouldn't take it as ridicule. I see it as an experienced, veteran, helo pilot trying to smack you upside the head to get your attention - which is no easy feat on a forum. Think of it as a Sgt. screaming at you at boot.

OK Scout. Now you can smack me upside the head and tell me I'm wrong. :biggrin:
 
If that's the case then consider me smacked.

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For the most part I have seen some very informative posts, but when people tell me that I "won't be flying apaches with that attitude", I get pretty pissed. Everyone else has been great other than the few who offer no solutions, only ridicule.

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Why are you pissed when someone "tell" you that you "won't be flying apaches with that attitude?"
 
I agree with kinnem.

In honesty, that ridicule will be your life for your year at UPT. IPs are not your fan club. They are not there to be your cheerleaders. Be prepared.

JMPO, I agree with the posters that say be willing to accept plan B, especially if you want to fly. There are many that don't even make it passed the 1st hurdle after receiving their rated slot...the flight class 1 physical. (I know 2 posters on this board that were AFROTC scholarship, no waivers for DoDMERB, failed the FC1....no UPT for them) It is not the 30 minute DoDMERB exam. Than for the AF there is IFS, where 25% wash out. Than once at UPT, there is another 25% wash out rate. Than out of that @20% get fighters, the rest will get heavies.

Now let's say you do get that AFA appointment you need to add in their attrition rate which varies between 20-25%.

Do the math. That's a lot of 25% being cut each time. 100 start at the SA, that is 75. Assume 15% for FC1, now you are at 65. 25% at IFS, now it is 58. 25% now at UPT it is 36. 25% out of that get Fighters or around 9 or 10 or overall 10%. Statistically the odds are against you. Now ask yourself do you really want to owe a decade after commissioning in the AF to fly heavies? Will you be looking up at the sky when you see an Apache and sigh that could have been me.

You are a big fish in a very little pond, probably at a school with a large academic disparity...I.e % that go ivy compared to % that go to CCs. When you get to any SA that disparity will disappear, everyone will be on the same academic scale.

Finally, I think everyone that flies will say to you that part of that life is not just being book smart, it is handling the stick too.

I would also say as a spouse that is married to a retired F15E WSO, now working on the 35. This kind of remark is common. You have to develop a thick skin. I remember at one squadron, I walked by one of the briefing rooms and saw coloring books and crayons in the corner. I asked Bullet's who had a little one in there...he laughed at me. He than told me that it is there for to tell somebody to shut up and color.
~ IOWs if scouts post offended you, he was being kind by saying at this point for you less is more.
~ Another story is a guy got the call sign Tuna. It was his 1st assignment, no operational hours and went up against a pilot with 2000 hours in the Strike. Hence, TWO to none....tuna. Had he been given that harsh comment at a young age like you from someone like scout, I doubt he would have had to live with that call sign for his entire AF life.
 
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Pima, I would in fact my second, or even third choices (helo and armor), I was just asking this based on the fact that I knew a missileer who was going to switch to navy so he could fly. I just thought that, if a missileer could do it, why couldn't an apache pilot?

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Yes, but the fact is the AF is cutting 8% of their personnel for the next 5 yes. There is a thread going right now that the Navy is 8000 short for goal, thus they need people currently.
 
The event I'm referring to happened about 15 years ago, but if that's still how it is, I see its very budget-specific

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Pima, I would in fact my second, or even third choices (helo and armor), I was just asking this based on the fact that I knew a missileer who was going to switch to navy so he could fly. I just thought that, if a missileer could do it, why couldn't an apache pilot?

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Anything is possible.

It's great to have a goal and doing everything you can to achieve that goal. What most of us are telling you is that yes it's possible, but based on our collective knowledge and experience it is very very unlikely now (My guess is that your LTC made the change in mid to late 90's or a lot earlier when the military was hurting for junior officers).

One NFL team wins Super Bowl every year, just a missileer did a service transfer and became a jet pilot. Would you bet a lot money on Houston Texans winning the Super Bowl next year?
 
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