Truth or not? - Football

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by QBsdad, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. QBsdad

    QBsdad Member

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    My DS is Blue chipped by USAFA but the football coach from KP is giving him the full court press and flying out next week to talk to mom and I. Says they spend their summers on some island all summer just practicing football and he can guarantee an USAF pilot slot upon graduation. I don't really see the correlation to preparing him for pilot training when all of their programs are ship and dock related. He promises better chance to start. How much do I believe?
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I don't have direct experience but I'm pretty sure he's being truthful. Certainly xROTC programs can all promise an aviation slot. It's still up to the candidate to score well on the required tests, etc... but they'll get their crack at it. Since going active duty in one of the armed forces after graduation is an option I have no reason to doubt what he's saying. I do expect that most people who go into aviation from USMMA probably go Naval aviation, but...

    Somewhat anecdotal but the PMS at my son's NROTC unit went to Maine Maritime. After a year at sea he went active duty in the Navy and attended aviation school. I'm confident he worked at sea for a year because he was waiting for his aviation school slot to open up.

    Final word of advice: It's not about the school, it's not about the football, it's about how one wants to serve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  3. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    A lot of football players do their sea year on a DoD Preposition ship at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The ships hardly go anywhere and there are always a bunch of football players to work out and lift weights together. I recall a LOT of pictures of beverages on the beach too.

    Don't know about "guarantees" a USAF Pilot slot. I don't know enough to say he can't, but it seems like a stretch to me. KP might have a certain number slated, but I don't see how you can promise it to a specific person four years prior.
     
  4. beatkp

    beatkp Member

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    Mike Toop would promise the world to get a D1 prospect to play for him. If your son’s competitive at the AFA, would he enjoy playing at a D3 level? The ultimate goal is not playing football anyway.

    If you literally want to see his eyes light up… tell him that you talked to Coach George at the CGA.
     
  5. QBsdad

    QBsdad Member

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    CGA emails and calls him all the time as well. CGA at least has aircraft so they are #2 for my DS since WP wanted him to cut weight to play sprint FB and USN never even replied. Still- who has the CIC trophy now and has had it the most!
     
  6. beatkp

    beatkp Member

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    I know of a few CG players went aviation out of school, but the main contributing factors were eyesight & class rank.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  7. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Wow, I just looked at the recent history of the games. Army is 4-35 in the series since 1996 ... ouch!
     
  8. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Have your son pick the school based upon the service he wants. It seems he wants to fly… CG is great if you wants helos or C-130s. Fighters, not so much. USMMA, CGA and USAFA are all dramatically different. Remember at USAFA there are going to be nearly 150 players on the roster. Every year they bring in a plebe class that is 50 players or so from direct entry and prep. Only around 65 travel each week. There is usually around 20 guys at senior day. At USMMA and USCGA it is D3, but with the size of the school and prep options much smaller, the teams will be much smaller. He may have an earlier chance to play and even start. I can tell you at USNA, USMA and USAFA there are nearly as many former athletes as there are active D1 athletes, that is the nature of the beast at them. With prep entries and no scholarship caps its a different numbers game. I played basketball… we had 10 recruits in my class. 3 of us were "blue chipped." At senior day only 3 of us were left, the 3 blue chips. The others got tired of all the work, little to no playing time, or wanted to focus on other things. I highly recommend he really evaluates the service he wants, what major he wants, and then the football program. Best of luck to your DS.
     
  9. KappaPiSigma

    KappaPiSigma New Member

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    To Be Honest

    Ill give it to you straight. Toop cannot guarantee anything post graduation, and if he is telling you he can... well then he is lying. Not to mention the Air Force Liaison here at KP isnt much help either. Not one single person got a Air Force spot, and there was about 13 applicants. Some more points include that the football team is the most funded part of Kings Point with a budget larger than the Deck and Engine Departments. This is some what ironic considering the football team is actually really bad. Toop was also lying about sea year. There is a 99% chance that he will spend a couple weeks on the Kings Pointer, then be assigned to what ever ship is available. This ship could be going to Alaska, around the world, or even to Antarctica. When you are out at sea, there is not really any time for football. Yes most ships have a gym, so you can stay fit. But most of the time is taken up by projects and work.

    All of these things aside. USMMA is probably one of the best schools. Graduates are more well rounded than any other school. Not to mention you get to travel the world and post graduation potentially make 130K starting. I think that is pretty good. But hey if he wants to go chair force let him.:smile:
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  10. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Imagine that!
     
  11. beyond

    beyond KπΣ15'

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    I am 100% confident that 2015 and 2014 were offered 0 rated Air Force slots. I'm not sure about 2012 and 2013, but I only know of two people going Air Force and none of them got rated slots.


    The mariners went 2-8 this year... we could use D1 caliber athlete.

    Your suspicions are correct. No one can guarantee any active duty slots here. Not Navy, not Coast Guard, not Air force.
     
  12. Privateer

    Privateer Member

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    But the coach can get him out of band Co...;-]
     
  13. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    ... and inspections. God knows, standing still outside your door can be soooooo physically taxing!:rolleyes:
     
  14. cmakin

    cmakin Member

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    Yes. . . . don't want them to wear themselves out. Wait. Don't they have AC now? Takes all of the fun out of a Plebe Beat. . . .
     
  15. AMF

    AMF Member

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    For what it's worth, aside from the obvious branch of service decisions stated above, there is currently a player on KP who was in the same position your son is football recruit wise, and he went KP. Don't think his goal was to be a pilot, but he is starting and showing well.
     
  16. Meehan161

    Meehan161 New Member

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    I started at USMA an my son is plebe at USMMA. My oldest played D3. To me, football is vehicle. Knowing what I know now I would've gone to the USMMA. Lots of opportunity there. But again it's what you want. If playing in front of 86,000 people and on national TV is your thing then Air Force would be better. My oldest went to regular college and is now going off to be a medevac helicopter pilot in march. The world is your playground is what sold my youngest and that is why he went to the merchant Marine Academy. My dad and my sister were Air Force. Football can be good or bad no matter you are at. So look long-term and decide what's right for you. If you want to know more let me know, if not good luck.


    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
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  17. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    First, I simply doubt Mike Toop said what you think you heard. Toop is a 1978 KP grad and as far as I know a stand-up guy, as noted he can't guarantee anything post graduation. So I don't think he really said he could, I've talked to him a few times over the past 7 years and he just doesn't seem to be "that guy."

    As noted USMMA plays D-III so any high school athlete being recruited by D-I schools would indeed be a very welcome addition to the D-III Mariners, or any other D-III squad. As such that athlete would likely get a lot more playing time at KP earlier in their four years than at any D-I alternative including USAFA, USNA or USMA.

    That said one generally doesn't attend USAFA or USMMA looking for a spot in the NFL draft so the decision your son is making isn't (or shouldn't be) about football as anything but a vehicle. There are a lot of other things in the decision loop, first if he's dead set on an active duty career as an Air Force Pilot, let me say there is likely no place better to start that career than at USAFA in Colorado Springs. I say that as a USMMA grad with a son who is also a USMMA grad. I'll also say that there is a long long way from I-Day to getting USAF wings - regardless of which path he chooses. I'll also say there is no wrong or bad choice between the choices you are looking at it's a case of better or best for your son. However I'll say this as most of the respondents here highlight (and should be expected on this forum) there is, IMO, no better choice when it comes to post-graduate "options and opportunities" than USMMA, and to me given that I don't think it's realistic to think any 18 year old intelligent enough to attend and succeed any of the Academies often know what they want for the rest of their lives with that level of surety. That's why so many Service Academy graduates leave active duty in their choose service before reaching retirement. As such I'd really suggest your son explore those options and opportunities with a USMMA Admissions Field Representative (preferably an Alumni) for KP, just like he's probably doing with the AFA equivalent, in addition to talking to the football coaches. This way just as the academies re looking "at the whole person" you and he will be doing a similar exercise.

    Good Luck in your family's journey and hope this helped.
     
  18. kpdad2015

    kpdad2015 Member

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    I'm not sure how the Coach is flying out, he told my wife and I at the last game of the season that he had no money for recruiting and he and his crew were not going to be able to travel anywhere to recruit this year. Also I'm confident, like jasperdog, that the coach would make no post graduation promises. During our years with our DS playing under the Coach he has stated many times that graduating from the USMMA takes precident over how the team performs. I'll admit it was a tough year with some serious injuries in key positions costing a few games.
    Actually I'm think any coach would be lying if they promised any opportunities after graduation. If it was a true guarantee then it wouldn't matter how the student performed in the classroom or on the field. How could anyone do that at any academy or at any school for that matter.
     
  19. KP2013dramamama

    KP2013dramamama Member

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    It's nice to see someone "tell it like it is"

     
  20. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Sure ... except for the assumptions being made about what may or may not have actually been said by whom as well as the simply erroneous statement.

    Other than that - all sarcasm aside there was/is a ton of good information and advice in all these posts and it's great to see current students and recent grads posting that's why I didn't comment on this particular point earlier. Also there is no disputing the fact that today, NO ONE can make any guarantees as to any specific opportunity at graduation 4 - 5 years from today for any student at any of the five Federal Service Academies.
     

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