two things i've seen that need to stop

The reason the Regiment is so important to this school is that without it I believe it would be impossible to justify the Academy's existence. If KP is not producing officers for the U.S. Military how can you explain spending $200,000 per graduate. Any taxpayer could reasonably ask why our tax dollars are being spent to train middle class suburban kids for high paying jobs in the maritime industry when the state schools can produce maritime officers at ZERO cost to the taxpayers. The regimental system is vital to the survival of KP. One need only pick up a copy of In Peace And War, open to page 359 and start reading to see what happens when the right people decided that this academy should be closed. Unless KP is producing military officers with a commitment to serve it's days will be numbered.
 
Shellz - I can tell you for one, I'm very happy with the daily communication (IM) we receive from our mid. It gives him/her a chance to blow off steam, vent about things that went wrong and just plain talk to someone without worrying about what they say. We use this time to listen, advise, try to explain what's going on or just not let whatever/whomever's upsetting them get under their skin and affect their studies - grades are everything!

Believe me, the umbilical cord is cut, but our mid is suffering through the same Calc and Physics as discussed in other posts. Sometimes you can help tweak the way their studying, give them another avenue of approach or just remind them you're behind them no matter what happens.

I suspect once our mid survives plebe year and they are recognized, the IM's will begin to decrease significantly but, for the time being, we are enjoying them.

Holy Crap! A daily IM? I glean items from Facebook (few and far between now) and I hope I get a glimpses from the Barny square webcam. We get phone calls on Sunday too. I know they are working hard and are looking forward to the next step, but that's it.
 
With regard to the "quality" and the future of the KP midshipmen, I would just as much say this is something the midshipmen need to take ownership of. Don't like how someone is developing, then train them. Don't like how things are done, then change them.

I don't know exactly how things are done at KP, but as a cadre a CGA, we felt some "ownership" in how our swabs did, not only over the summer, but after, and into the fleet.

The old saying from the Commandant of Cadets while I was there was the "Corps runs the Corps". If we failed, it was because we failed. If our subordinates failed, we failed with them.

The Supe of CGA told the parents on my R-Day, that we were no longer their responsibility.

My parents didn't call me every day. I would call now and then, not so much that first year, but more so the second year, just to check in now and then. Heck, my mother thought my rank was "midshipman" three years after I graduated. Can you tell "rank" didn't mean much in our house?

Finally, we appreciated kids reporting with long hair, just more to cut off, and if their slouched, we were ready to correct that in a hurry.

Kings Point will develope the way it does because of the input and time you put into it. Take ownership, and steer her back on course. :thumb:
 
KPMarineopsdad said:
Any taxpayer could reasonably ask why our tax dollars are being spent to train middle class suburban kids for high paying jobs in the maritime industry when the state schools can produce maritime officers at ZERO cost to the taxpayers.

Yes, that's true. It's one of the biggest reasons that KP may one day cease to exist. How do you respond?
 
Perhaps the regimental system at KP should be abandoned?

Perhaps KP should simply become a full-time Federal maritime training academy, focusing entirely on maritime training, and completely eliminating all aspects of military indoctrination and military regimental adherence?

Or perhaps a "part-time" or "optional" regimental system can be placed for certain areas of study/majors, while others who are majoring in something else can "opt-out" of the regimental system, similar to the system at Maine Maritime?

:cool:

I had a similar thought. It does seem that service as a civilian mariner would not require an extensive military training program. However, since all the graduates are commissioned in, at least, the USNR, I can see how USSMA is different from the state academies regarding the need for a regimental system. Plus (and I think this true), I believe any mid/cadet at the state schools who is seeking a license as a Mate/Engineer is required to do a regimental program. As everyone at USMMA is required to get a license, they too must participate in a type of regimental program. I'm no expert though, so don't quote me.
 
I gotta be me...

Most strongly recommend RADM "Bear" Pickavance USN/Ret, be considered for the next Supe. ....

Since this is just one person's opinion, here's another - the last thing KP needs for a Superintendent is another USNA grad coming to us by way of Texas A&M - we do need a no nonsense, "Acta Non Verba", bona fide Maritime Industry leader and hopefully one who truly understands the traditions KP is rooted in and the excellence it strives for, ideally from starting their own journey to their current position of prominence when they themselves graduated from the USMMA.

Further, the person selected needs to come in with an industry vice military vantage point so they are comfortable, not resentful, of a reporting chain that basically is more corporate vice military in nature such that they understand they are taking the reins of an organization essentially as COO, where the Maritime Administrator is the CEO and both the CFO and the head of HR report directly to the CEO vice them. Such a disposition and experiential base will also likely better equip them to successfully address and MANAGE the institution's interactions with it's many, varied stakeholders including Alumni, Parents, and increasingly Oversight bodies and agencies like the DOT IG and the GAO. USMMA is indeed a unique institution with a unique mission and history and if it is to become the embodiment of DOT Secretary Ray LaHood and MARAD Administrator David Matsuda's stated vision - "the jewel of the nation's Service Academies" it needs someone that when his or her name becomes public the vast majority of interested persons react with "OF COURSE" ... "PREFECT" It really can't be someone who needs an bigger than cursory introduction. Don't mean to sound too snarky, and this is just my opinion as to what's needed for the times we are in. Oh and there are several of those kinds of people out there...

Fire Away....
 
Can someone define leadership?

Are we talking about providing purpose, direction, and motivation?

Does a leader really need a position or a title to do the right thing; to show others around them how to do the right thing; to get after the things that need to get down; to garner support to get those things done; to be excited to do it and to stir excitement in them?

Maybe is2day will be i'mNcharge starting right now: if in a calm cadence and a serious tone you repeat after me...

"We don't do that here. If you wanted to act like a ______ you should have lowered your standards an attended the Coast Guard Academy. We ___________ in order to get things done right, the first time, on time, every time. Now start acting like a professional and __________."
 
State academies

I know that in order to take the Coast Guard license exam, the cadets at SUNY Maritime need to be in the regiment. At Mass Maritime, all students must be in the regiment. I don't know about the other state schools.

Also, the state schools definitely receive big money from the Federal government per student. The states do not bear the entire cost of educating mariners. In addition, if your state does not have a maritime school, you can received in-state tuition to go to one of the state schools because the Federal government is subsidizing that training and education. A student can get further financial help if they participate in an ROTC program at the state school, usually NROTC.
 
Jasperdog,
Read my post a little more carefully, RADM Pickavance is not an USNA grad.

Would you be happier with ADM Buzby or ADM Greene? Both are USMMA grads who are still on active duty, the reason for not mentioning them.

KP is a military school and therefore needs an operator to run it. It need someone that understands this.

I'm not saying a civilian has no place as Supe. A strong civilian, Chuck Raymond as a possible example, would probably do very well as Supe. Do you think you can lure him away from current position, President & COO of Horizon Shipping Lines and USMMA Grad? I have my doubts any civilian of the quality you are interested in would be difficult to obtain.

Lively discussion, keep it going.
 
Being in a regimental system is not the same as having an obligation to the military when you graduate. A person can attend VMI or the Citadel and be immersed in what many would say is the most stringent regimental system out there but, unless you got an ROTC scholarship, on graduation day you owe the government nothing. The Federal Government is not going to pay for the education of these midshipmen unless they are getting something in return. In the case of KP the service obligation really isn't that burdensome compared to the other academies. The simultaneous departure of the Superintendent and the Commandant of Midshipmen last year left a huge leadership vacuum that needs to be filled.....soon!
 
Why A USMMA and Why A Regiment of Midshipman

Well it is indeed interesting that from these posts some of Kings Point's biggest fans really don't know what, when, why and how a United States Merchant Marine Academy came into being and then under Public Law was made permanent. I believe a brief review might be useful in answering some of the questions and responding to some of the points being made here.

Between 1874 and 1936, diverse Federal legislation supported maritime training through school ships, internships at sea and other methods. A disastrous fire in 1934 aboard the passenger ship SS Morro Castle, in which 134 lives were lost, convinced the U.S. Congress that direct Federal involvement in efficient and standardized training was needed. In response, Congress passed the Merchant Marine Act in 1936, and two years later, the U.S. Merchant Marine Cadet Corps was established.

The first training was given at temporary facilities in several locations to the "Classes of 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942 and 1943" until the Academy's permanent site in Kings Point, New York was acquired in early 1942. Construction of the Academy began immediately, and 15 months later the task was virtually completed. The Academy was dedicated on September 30, 1943, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who noted that "the Academy serves the Merchant Marine as West Point serves the Army and Annapolis the Navy."

World War II required the Academy to forego its normal operation and to devote all of its resources toward meeting the emergency need for Merchant Marine officers. Its enrollment rose to 2,700 men, and the planned course of instruction was reduced in length from four years to 18 months. In spite of the war, shipboard training continued to be an integral part of the Academy curriculum, and midshipmen served at sea in combat zones the world over. One hundred and forty-two midshipmen gave their lives in service to their country, and many others survived torpedo and aerial attacks - they did this as Cadets on Merchant ships, not as active duty military. From 1942-1945, the Academy graduated 6,895 officers. As the war drew to a close, plans were made to convert the Academy's wartime curriculum to a four-year, college-level program to meet the peacetime requirements of the merchant marine. In 1948, such a course was instituted.

Authorization for awarding the degree of bachelor of science to graduates was granted by Congress in 1949. The Academy became a fully-accredited as a degree-granting institution in the same year. Subsequently, the United States Merchant Marine Academy was made a permanent institution by an Act of Congress in 1956. Over the years in response to the nation's needs for increased numbers of USCG Li scened Merchant Mariners, the Academy accelerated graduating classes during the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Today Kings Point remains one of if not the primary source of USCG Licensed Deck and Engine Merchant Mariners.

As far as the nation's need for a viable, well led and ably staffed transportation industry, particularly the maritime sector - the need for and general economic benefits of such a thing is while generally quietly acknowledged is also generally well acknowledged as well. Anecdotally, every so often there is something that either disrupts the flow of goods and commodities being transported by ships and other marine conveyances or significantly impacts the routing of it in a way where the need is well illustrated. A recent example would be the "shutting down" of the Port of Long Beach - the nation's largest port on the Pacific by labor actions. It took less than 3 weeks for the effects to be visible everywhere around the nation from grocery store shelves to auto factories. Other recent examples were Operation Desert Shield and Storm as well as Iraqi Freedom where numerous Merchant Marine Reservist (USNR with specialized designators vice "Unrestricted Line Officers") were called to man cargo ships activated from our Nation's "Ready Reserve Fleet or staff billets like providing harbor pilots for the Ports in Kuwait and liberated Iraq. The list goes on and there is no doubt some military aspects (predominately USNR) to them but there are also many, many unique commercial based aspects for which only Kings Point responds fully do exist.

Now onto why a Regiment of Midshipmen, while the Merchant Marine is most definitely not a military organization, the traditions of a seagoing merchant Marine exist within the confines of a relatively strict hierarchal structure that a Regimental Training program is clearly well suited as a training tool. However, it's important to not there are marked differences between Military Chains of Command and those in either "Merchant Navies" and more directly applicable, US Merchant Ships. For example on US Merchant Ship's today while technically the Chief Engineer works for the Ship's Master as a ship can only have one Captain, the management and operation of the Engine Department is generally conducted without any direct involvement of the Captain in the decision process. The Ship's Master is as much or more the Chief Engineer's day to day customer as he is the Chief's "Boss." Also with regard to a ship's unlicensed personnel, especially on union ships, the tasks a Captain or any other Licensed Officer can and does assign an member of a vessel's unlicensed compliment are far more constrained than would ever be imagined, let alone tolerated, by a Military Officer managing his or her enlisted personnel. Further, even when the the tasks are clearly in the responsibilities of an unlicensed person, when dealing with union members with seniority, the interactions between Licensed and Unlicensed personnel on their watches or under their management are far, far different than Officer - Enlisted interactions. As such while in residence at the Academy, a Regimental construct and training is useful. However, of even more benefit to most Kings Pointers is the Sea Year experience, which, in most cases is something uniquely "Kings Point" as many State Maritime Graduates do not set for onto an actual working merchant ship until getting their first job after graduation, and many State Maritime students "opt out" of the licensed options altogether.

So I know there's lots of debate and we Kings Pointers and KP advocates need to be active and vigilant in our support and defense of the ongoing need, utility and value to the taxpayer of the USMMA but I believe even without any undue emphasis on it as a source of highly qualified military, particularly Maritime Services (USN, USCG, and NOAA) officers at very competitive (to the other Academies) "prices," Kings Point is a very justifiable federal expenditure.
 
Being in a regimental system is not the same as having an obligation to the military when you graduate. A person can attend VMI or the Citadel and be immersed in what many would say is the most stringent regimental system out there but, unless you got an ROTC scholarship, on graduation day you owe the government nothing.

Actually, you don't have to have a scholarship to take a commission. You just have to go through the ROTC program and decide that you want to pursue a contract. But yes, you're right, the choice to go into the service or not is with the individual cadet at VMI/Citadel. There is no mandatory commitment. Neither of those schools are federally run, and both charge tuition, so that is the reason for that.
 
Can someone define leadership?

Are we talking about providing purpose, direction, and motivation?

Good question....
"We don't do that here. If you wanted to act like a ______ you should have lowered your standards an attended the Coast Guard Academy. We ___________ in order to get things done right, the first time, on time, every time. Now start acting like a professional and __________."

Good answer? Not someone like yourself who chooses to cast stones rather than discuss the issue rationally, and with respect for the other service academies. I certainly hope you don't represent KP directly.
 
I remember a corporate leadership program from a few years ago that had a theme that is appropriate here:

Lead from where ever you are standing.

I hope Is2day is still reading this thread . . .
 
I remember a corporate leadership program from a few years ago that had a theme that is appropriate here:

Lead from where ever you are standing.

I hope Is2day is still reading this thread . . .

I like that....Lead from where you are standing...:thumb:
 
To Luigi -

Yes, that's true. It's one of the biggest reasons that KP may one day cease to exist. How do you respond?

How do I respond, I'll take the high road - Stop baiting people....it's beneath you.
 
How do I respond, I'll take the high road - Stop baiting people....it's beneath you.

Not bait at all, it's a position many people wonder about.

If the state maritime schools are producing merchant marine officers, and the students are PAYING to attend, the need to have a federally funded maritime training academy becomes blurred in many eyes - eyes much more imporatant to mine. Many of those eyes belong to the 535 members of Congress.

I recognize the need for licensed merchant marine officers, and understand why a commitment of service is needed to ensure an orderly transition to military command and structure if they are called to act in war time, as they have been before.

However, there are many other voices, much louder than mine, and in places that matter, that question the need for continuing funding of a federal academy, at taxpayer expense, that duplicates the state schools where tuition is paid by the students.
 
Not bait at all, it's a position many people wonder about.

If the state maritime schools are producing merchant marine officers, and the students are PAYING to attend, the need to have a federally funded maritime training academy becomes blurred in many eyes - eyes much more important to mine. Many of those eyes belong to the 535 members of Congress. ...

Fair enough so I offer:

Look at the stats as to how many USCG Licensed Mariners actually come out of the state maritime academies. While two: Great Lakes and Cal Maritime have large percentages of their graduating classes come out as licensed mates and engineerings, my understanding is that most of the others struggle to turn out 80+ of the class with their licenses in hand. I say that with a bit of a loaded gun because I haven't looked at this data for more than 2 years but when I did the facts I state were substaniated.... I also risk hearing cries of foul from stakeholders at Maine, Mass, Texas, and New York Maritime, I especially fear Mass now they have Capt. Philip's, a legitimate hero and life-long mariner, to point to as a standard bearer...

Further, as has been explained earlier, while the students there do indeed pay tuition, the reason why state maritime academies generally have low tuitions and are rated as good undergraduate college buys is they too are well, some would say, heavily subsidized by MARAD. Further one could very easily argue, those students that opt not to pursue a license still reap the benefits of those subsidies at least in part while incurring NO OBLIGATION what so ever.

The issue IMHO is indeed one of "education" whether that be of say a key player like your Alma Mater's favorite MOC - the Hon Mr. Cummings or "John Q. Public" ...

I know what you say is correct but to me the question seems like someone asking you USCGA guys "Why do we taxpayers have to foot the bill for that over-sized yacht the USCGC Eagle for Coast Guard Academy Cadets to play on - it's not like Coast Guardsmen ever have navigate a vessel under sail to apprehend those drug smugglers or anything and the USCG has plenty of moder cutters and vessels for them to train on." To some folks I'm sure that could be a legitimate question and they probably also see the Eagle not as what she is but a symbol of an elitist institution that is resistive to Congressional Oversight and even more resistive to Congressional input as to the make-up of it's student body.

Your turn.:biggrin:
 
I know what you say is correct but to me the question seems like someone asking you USCGA guys "Why do we taxpayers have to foot the bill for that over-sized yacht the USCGC Eagle for Coast Guard Academy Cadets to play on - it's not like Coast Guardsmen ever have navigate a vessel under sail to apprehend those drug smugglers or anything and the USCG has plenty of moder cutters and vessels for them to train on."



Coast Guard Academy cadets and Coast Guard Officer Candidates both use EAGLE. Not only is it an oversized yacht, but it is also a war prize.

Decommissioning EAGLE? That wouldn't be the only decommissioned Coast Guard vessel (or five) in the next year.

EAGLE had a SAR case not too long ago.

The Coast Guard has one of the oldest military fleets in the world. My last cutter was built in 1969. The first of it's class was built in 1964. USCGC ACUSHNET is a WWII era cutter, commissioned only three years after USMMA was founded, and we're still using it.
 
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