Quite correct, but only within strict limits. In Maryland for example, they are allowed to consume *only* at their own homes and only when the parent is actually present and expressly allows it. For example, I can let my DS have a beer in my home but I cannot serve his BR whom he brought home for the holidays. It is a legislative recognition of the political reality that parents want a role in teaching their kids how to drink responsibly. Of course, if the parents serves booze to his children who then go out and get into an accident, the parents can reasonably expect to be defendants in the ensuing law suit. If my kid has a drink at home, he is home for the night.
Underage Drinking Project
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Quite correct, but only within strict limits. In Maryland for example, they are allowed to consume *only* at their own homes and only when the parent is actually present and expressly allows it. For example, I can let my DS have a beer in my home but I cannot serve his BR whom he brought home for the holidays. It is a legislative recognition of the political reality that parents want a role in teaching their kids how to drink responsibly. Of course, if the parents serves booze to his children who then go out and get into an accident, the parents can reasonably expect to be defendants in the ensuing law suit. If my kid has a drink at home, he is home for the night.
This is true but most are unaware of it. http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591
I agree the driving issue is completely different but I think it is what pushed the drinking age to 21.
I wouldn't think there would be much disagreement on here about the DUI laws other than how punitive they should be. They should be very punitive in my opinion.
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I agree with Luigi, scout and others that we've diverged from Roman's question, which was:
Should I run around and try to convince my classmates about the perils of underage drinking? Or should I just assume they're all adults and know the consequences of their actions?
For the reasons that I and others have intimated, your noble goal will likely be met with one of the following three responses: (1) "Who the hell do you think YOU are?"; (2) "Whatever."; or (3) "Okay, I'm willing to listen AND I KNOW THAT CONGRESSS DEBATED ALL OF THESE POINTS AT LENGTH AND ULTIMATELY COMPROMISED ON A "21" NUMBER, but let me debate you on this particular point that I recently read on www.serviceacademyforums.com."
Again, while your heart may be in the right place, I suspect that all of these responses are likely to leave you with fewer friends than when you started, Roman. If I were you, I'd leave it up to the established system to do their best at combating this problem.
Should I run around and try to convince my classmates about the perils of underage drinking? Or should I just assume they're all adults and know the consequences of their actions?
For the reasons that I and others have intimated, your noble goal will likely be met with one of the following three responses: (1) "Who the hell do you think YOU are?"; (2) "Whatever."; or (3) "Okay, I'm willing to listen AND I KNOW THAT CONGRESSS DEBATED ALL OF THESE POINTS AT LENGTH AND ULTIMATELY COMPROMISED ON A "21" NUMBER, but let me debate you on this particular point that I recently read on www.serviceacademyforums.com."
Again, while your heart may be in the right place, I suspect that all of these responses are likely to leave you with fewer friends than when you started, Roman. If I were you, I'd leave it up to the established system to do their best at combating this problem.
We could allow it, but honestly, the military wouldn't dream of taking a 15 year old. Not even Germany during the generation-wasting, bloodletting of the First WW drafted them younger than 18. Of course mental maturity matters in the military, as elsewhere. Mental maturity is particularly required to handle mind-altering substances. The point here is that an 18 year old service member is under the control and supervision of the military -- not his irresponsible buds who may think that drinking and driving is great fun. Can you imagine any 2nd Lt allowing any member of his platoon to drink and drive, much less drink on duty or to the point of impairment?
I agree and my statement was made tongue-in-cheek.
Why does driving keep getting drug into this?
Do you think a 21 year old is better equipped to deal with the stress and horror of battle than an 18 year old? Or is it not an issue because they are a part of an organization?
Both actually.
I mean think about it. Men do better in battle when properly led. The military excels at selecting and training men to lead. You don't have 18 year old officers. officers are especially trained to handle stress as they are responsible for the lives of their men . Those who can't handle stress are weeded out early on. More Mental maturity is required to lead than to follow.
As an aside What is so attractive about the SAs and the SMCs is that they instill that training early on and maintain it for 4 years plus of course the summer training. I hasten to that This is not say that regular ROTC or OCS doesn't do an excellent job. But for better or worse I think the SAs and the SMCs have more of an impact on an individual. Just MHO.
Now I think you are hitting it. It is about training over time and in a controlled environment.
With the drinking deal it is one day you can't the next day you can. It would really take a societal change to allow these kids to learn to drink responsibly over time. The illegal aspect of it just seems to insure these kids are going to end up in bad situations once they make the first incorrect decision of breaking the rule that says no alcohol.
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AP Style actually makes sense. Do I need to know what CPT means? Hell no. For me it's CAPT. You'll find your public affairs officers ALSO use AP Style.
Generally accepting the other services don't speak "Army" is hard for soldiers to understand.
I called a useless civilian employee with an attitude at Arlington National Cemetery (a **** show run by the Army, wish the VA would take it over)...
As the discussion fell apart I told the lady I was more than willing to have my captain call her an discuss the issue (which was being arranged for the Commandant of the Coast Guard). "That's fine, my supervisor is a Lt. Col." (uh oh....I just used AP Style...do you know what rank I'm referring to).
"Um, you understand a Capt. outranks a Lt. Col., correct?"
"But you said Captain."
"Correct, and I'm calling from the Coast Guard, which like the Navy used 'Captain' for O-6."
She moved a little quicker, but unfortunately remained a prime example of how some useless federal employees never get the pink slip.
The fact that an employee at a unit that REGULARLY services every branch has absolutely no idea how to convert an officers rank from Army to one of the other 4 services is pathetic.
So, soldiers are welcome to refer to everyone else as "soldiers" but the response they'll get is likely to be something with four letters (and not found in the AP Style book).
scoutpilot
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Boy, you showed that little old lady! Way to hang tough! By the way, in 3 out of 5 services, a captain is an O-3. Looks like you both need work converting ranks.
I do think it's funny that you looooove to bag on the Army, but the moment anyone speaks of the CG in anything less than laudatory tones, you lead the hue and cry brigade (you know I mean brigade as a group of people and not an actual brigade, right? Sometimes words have multiple meanings).
Your point is that AP style makes sense? Maybe to people who spent half of their time behind a PR desk. To everyone else it makes no sense. Why is a Private First Class a "Pfc."? I don't see them referring to the disease we call AIDS as "Aids." or its causal virus as "Hiv." I don't see them calling General Motors "Gm." but Pfc. makes sense, right?
The fact that the military PR hacks use AP Style doesn't make it intelligent or useful. In fact, many seasoned journalists (both my folks hold MAs in journalism) will tell you it's actually stupid and is intentionally dumbed down to be understood by the barely literate.
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4 out of 7 uniformed services use naval ranks, guess you (USA, USMC and USAF) may want to change it, join USN, USCG, USPHS and NOAA.
My issue isn't with the Army. It's my second favorite branch of the military. My issue is that, in general, soldiers believe everyone should speak in Army.... I'm guessing a number of the NON-Army members of SAF can attest to that experience.
Given the fact that military PR "flacks" (not hacks, those are journalists) use AP Style (for writing, not because they can't figure out how to capitalize), does not mean grunts have to.... just means those military PR flacks KNOW how to speak to the 99% of people who don't really give a **** if an Army captain wants something to be PFC or Pfc..... that 99% of the American population who know what they know not because of a helo pilot or a Coast Guard cutter CO said it, but because once they said it, a newspaper or news channel said it too... and those people are going to use AP Style.
Again, I'm as comfortable writing LCDR as I am Lt. Cmdr. or LT v. Lt. or CAPT v. Capt. It's not a huge leap.... and the cool thing is... it's easy to look up.
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I know you guys like to bag on the Air Force...and at the risk of giving you more ammo...
There is a document called "The Tounge and Quill" (which I assume is still around) that the Air Force uses for its official writing. An Airman (E-2) is an "Amn." An Airman First Class (E-3) is an "A1C."
A Second Lieutenant is a "2nd. Lt." A Captain is a "Capt."
This is how I remember it from around 9 years ago. It might have changed, as things always change in the Air Force.
I prefer how the Army does it. All caps/numerals, and abbreviations are max three letters. "2LT, " "CPT" etc.
This thread is well into crazy land, so I don't mind contributing to the third or fourth tangent from the Op's post...
There is a document called "The Tounge and Quill" (which I assume is still around) that the Air Force uses for its official writing. An Airman (E-2) is an "Amn." An Airman First Class (E-3) is an "A1C."
A Second Lieutenant is a "2nd. Lt." A Captain is a "Capt."
This is how I remember it from around 9 years ago. It might have changed, as things always change in the Air Force.
I prefer how the Army does it. All caps/numerals, and abbreviations are max three letters. "2LT, " "CPT" etc.
This thread is well into crazy land, so I don't mind contributing to the third or fourth tangent from the Op's post...
scoutpilot
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You know society has changed a lot in that regard. Police used to take the drunk home. Now it is to jail. Judges would let them off with a warning. Not anymore. Kids still drink to abuse but the consequences are far different and some kids at least don't think it so cool to get falling down drunk. It will take a lot longer but maybe we will get there
I meant "Tongue," of course. I must be becoming dyslexic.
I have no idea what the Bluebook says, as I haven't had occasion to write the abbreviation in a legal document. The USAF regulation, as far as I remember, uses "2nd Lt."
Yes it has changed. When I was that age, if somebody (probably me) wasn't actuall causing any trouble they looked the other way most of the time. There are far more consequences today than there used to be. I think this is mostly good but sometimes common sense gets lost and the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
The older I get the more I realize how rare common sense is.
Anyway I want say to all how much I enjoy and appreciate the "common sense" and wisdom so common on this forum. Merry Xmas to all. May God protect you and yours in the coming new year!