Underage Drinking

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by nfalipio, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. nfalipio

    nfalipio New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a friend who wants to sign up for AFROTC next semester, however, he got into some trouble with the cops for underage drinking in the summer. Would that disqualify him from getting commissioned?
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    Don't know about commissioning, but he will have some work to do proving himself to the command!
     
  3. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    343
    If I were the PAS (Think AF ROTC Commander at the detachment) I would not "deny" him the opportunity to better himself and prove himself worthy of "our" trust.

    HOWEVER...his choice to willfully violate the law would make me VERY doubtful of his possessing the essential qualities of self discipline, judgment, and trustworthiness.

    Of course (as you would probably point out) I should also take into account his age...young college "kids" typically do silly things, things that are considered "okay" or "cool" with their peers but are minor legal deviations.

    But then again I think of the young SrA, age 19 (if I remember correctly) whose court martial I sat as a board member on, that was arrested for:

    a. Underage drinking
    b. D&D (drunk and disorderly)
    c. Resisting arrest
    b. Assault & Battery

    This came from a "weekend party" with his friends on base. It got a little loud, the military police were summoned, they spoke with everyone, this kid was drunk, got a bit mouthy, it escalated a bit, and he was ultimately arrested after an altercation with the AF military police.

    Care to guess how the Air Force looked at this?

    1. Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) Article 134-13
    a. Drunk & Disorderly, Bringing Discredit to the AF: maximum punishment is 6 months confinement

    2. UCMJ Article 92
    a. Failure to Obey Order or Regulation: maximum punishment is a Dishonorable Discharge, 2 years confinement, total forfeitures of all pay and allowances

    3. UCMJ Article 95
    a. Resistance, Flight, Breach of Arrest, Escape: maximum punishment is Bad Conduct Discharge, 1 year confinement, total forfeitures

    4. UCMJ Article 128
    a. Assault consummated by Battery: maximum punishment from all aspects is Dishonorable Discharge, total forfeitures, 5 years confinement

    Those are the charges I remember. I had to look up the articles, I simply remember the charge sheet. There may have been a couple more for my memory seems to recall something like 6 charges total.

    Remember, this "kid" if I remember correctly was all of 19, maybe 20. The prosecutor wanted him destroyed. "Dishonorable Discharge and something like 1 year in prison" was the request, again, if memory serves.

    If this happened at "City University" he'd get a misdemeanor ticket and perhaps a few hundred dollars in fines and community service.

    This young man, who by all reports was an excellent worker, progressing well in his job, becoming the "go to guy" in his squadron, was instead court martialed and given a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) and several months confinement.

    Unlike a Dishonerable Discharge, the BCD I do not believe is treated as a felony conviction, HOWEVER it is a PUNITIVE discharge and you lose your Veterans Benefits. And...try explaining a BCD on every one of your job applications in the future. Want to be a lawyer? Check the state bar to see if this will automatically disqualify you, for LIFE.

    So you see, I would hold your friend to a VERY high standard to earn my trust, and my recommendation that he be considered for a commission. It would NOT be an unattainable goal, but he would have to PROVE to me that he was worthy.

    Just my $1.50 worth.

    Steve, Lt Col, USAFR
    DLOD, AZ
     
  4. Cycling1222

    Cycling1222 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do ROTC students part?

    Lets face it, the drinking and party scene is a part of college and also a part of high school. Do the ROTC kids not go to these "social events", what happens if they do?
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    Of course they go to these parties, and yes underage drinking occurs, but to get involved with the law means they did something STUPID without thinking out the consequences. I told DS all the time...you sign an agreement with UMD, and you do something stupid say goodbye to the whole enchilada! NO UMD = NO ROTC = No military career...kiss by bye to your dream.

    Besides you laugh more when you are sober watching the idiots!
     
  6. air_power

    air_power Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would it really be wise to watch them though?

    Here in my state, the policy is that if you are even around any illegal consumption of controlled substances you are just arrested there on the spot, even if you do not support what is going on.

    So, my question is that as soon as you detect that there is underage drinking going on, it would probably be a good decision to leave?
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    You are correct, that is the most sound decision...MY FAUX PAS
     
  8. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    343
    I'm 100% certain that was the reason.

    I knew another young airmen; this one immediately comes to mind because he was in my squadron. He liked to party; he drank "underage", etc...etc...fortunately for him he was a "childlike" drunk. When he got drunk (and when he was caught), he was the nicest, most obedient person you met.

    He received "Non Judicial Punishment" (NJP) under Article 15 the first time. Yes, the FIRST time.

    The second time we sent him to "correctional custody" for a "remotivation" period of reflection. For those of you NOT familiar with "CC" let me put it this way: think "jail" where the WORST "rumor" you've heard of USMC Boot Camp is considered a birthday party celebration in comparison.

    He was there for 3 weeks.

    We received back this incredibly motivated super airman!

    The NICE part of the story?

    After the Article 15 and the second "alcohol related offense" his career would pretty much be over and when his enlistment was up, he'd NOT be allowed to reenlist. Not this guy.

    He COMPLETELY changed and became a model member of the AF. He earned awards of "Airman of the Quarter" and "Airman of the Year" more than once after this.

    And he's still serving to this day, but he's got a different title; no longer "airman."

    He's now commonly called "Chief."

    Yes, this is a true story.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    You should also understand the military takes alcohol abuse, i.e. drinking and driving very seriously even when you are old enough to drink. An AFA graduate that was on casual status awaiting his UPT class, got a DUI...he lost his pilot slot and an Article 15...career was over before it started.
     
  10. felixbed

    felixbed Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    College age kids are still developing their sense of judgement, good idea/bad idea. Add this to the "what's the worst that could happen to me" belief usually ends them in a heap of how do I get out of this. Don't tempt fate, if you know something illegal will be there, don't go. If you find out something when you are there, leave. It is so much easier to prove you did not do something when you were not there, then trying to explain you didn't when you were there. The party is over in a night, you don't want your career to end the same way.
     

Share This Page