Up, Up and Out

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Just_A_Mom, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Haha, my other favorite publication.
    I'm going to have to read this. Sure would free up A LOT of money for the other services, although I really appreciate America's airpower (makes you feel a bit safer.)
     
  3. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Wow, I read it, and I can't imagine that article will make many AF supporters happy. I also can't see what this person's qualifications are.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Okay I only made it through a few paragraphs b/c as soon as I read this quote, I knew the guy knew absolutely nothing

    I think Prince Harry who called in Strike Eagles from the 4th FW would beg to differ. For yrs upon yrs, since 90 the AF has never left the sandbox. Was ONW and OSW a war? NO, but to suggest that they are not there is moronic.

    So his suggestion is to bring it back to the 1940's scenario, each branch will have their fighters, carriers, etc. How exactly does this save money? Actually it would cost more because, each branch will buy whatever plane they think is best for their branch. The Army will need not only fighters to do CAS, but heavies to tranport these guys. The same is true for the Marines, what is not necessarily true is that they will buy the same plane. Look at the 22 and why it is dieing, it is b/c it is only for the AF, whereas the 35 will be truly joint.

    Okay back to reading this moron. I have to take it in doses!

    IMHO the Grey lady is worse than the WaPo, and that is not an easy feat!
     
  5. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    Unsupported and insulting.:thumbdown:

    Apparently, this Marine hasn't been watching the skies over the ME...
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Just finished the article and googled the guy. He is a Marine Iraqi war Vet, but I am assuming it was Gulf I. He also is/was a WaPo reporter. Shocker:eek:

    He proposes that Gates get rid of the passed over 2x and out, to keep good officers, well I too have seen good officers passed over, but those that were forced to retire at 20, didn't follow the suggested path...i.e. no Masters, no joint assignment, no PME. All they wanted to do was fly, they put themselves first and the service second, in the corporate world that would be called dead wood! His suggestion is to keep them instead of moving foward wiht new blood. For the military to keep them, the Congress will have to change the rule of % of Flag/Field/Company. It is not realistic.
     
  7. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    God, I hate morons. And I hate the fact that we're all suppose to "Respect" everyone's opinions. Sorry, but I don't respect everyone's opinions. I respect their "Right" to HAVE an opinion. But I only respect opinions that are thought out, educated, and knowledgeable. His is neither, so I don't respect him or his opinions. The main reason for establishing the Air Force as a separate entity in the first place was to provide a more specialized and efficient means of providing Air support. The mission of our military, no matter the branch, has not changed once since WWII. How we do it may have changed, but the mission itself is still the same.

    This idiot sounds like many who have signed up in the military for "non-patriotic" reasons. Sorry, but there are many who sign up for the military strictly for personal and economic reasons. We had this discussion in different forms with "Why people apply to the academy". This is no different. I can't tell you how many people I seen in the military; officer, enlisted, active duty, guard, reserve, air force, navy, marine, and army; who only complain. They complain when they have to deploy. Complain when going TDY. Complain about getting called out. And saying stupid things like; "This isn't what I signed up for". I despise them all. This idiot included. (Maybe when I calm down I'll tell you how I really feel).

    And the whole reason our military is as GOOD as it is, is because it's an all volunteer force. Draftees are NEVER as good. That's not to say that draftees haven't performed well in Vietnam and other engagements; just that most of the time, their performance wasn't motivated by their desire or choice to be there. When you're FORCED to be there, you have the right to complain and perform substandard. When you volunteer, the responsibility of your actions rest solely with you.

    So, this POS, thinks it's best to go back to pre-WWII and let each branch of the military take care of all their own air/space/technology needs. And, he believes that manning our military with people who don't want to be there is better quality. Granted; because of economics; a large portion of the military is made up of individuals who don't come from wealthy or prominent families. But I'd choose a VOLUNTEER inner city black man/woman or southern red neck white trash; than a drafted mandatory Hampton liberal silver spoon fed pompous *** named Biff or Buffy. Especially if they walk in with some arrogant belief that they know better because their family is well to do. This guy should not be allowed to reproduce. This is not just because of the Air Force comments, but all his comments. Including the mandatory service. later./.... mike.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2009
  8. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I've heard some good things about Gun ships.....that sweet set up with an AC-130.
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I'm just impressed when an aircraft has bigger artillery rounds than some ships. :eek:
     
  11. SubSquid

    SubSquid Member

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    Continuing, WAY off topic

    Yep, I can think of a few Marine Airdales that would love to get their hands on these birds!

    • Crew: 13
      • Officers: 5 (pilot, copilot, navigator, fire control officer, electronic warfare officer)
      • Enlisted: 8 (flight engineer, TV operator, infrared detection set operator, load master, four aerial gunners)
    • Length: 97 ft 9 in (29.8 m)
    • Wingspan: 132 ft 7 in (40.4 m)
    • Height: 38 ft 6 in (11.7 m)
    • Wing area: 1745.5 ft² (162.2 m²)
    • Loaded weight: 122,400 lb (55,520 kg)
    • Max takeoff weight: 155,000 lb (69,750 kg)
    • Powerplant:Allison T56-A-15 turboprops, 4,910 shp (3,700 kW) each
    Performance
    [edit] Armament

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Gunners loading 40 mm cannon (background) and 105 mm howitzer (foreground)


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    AC-130H Spectre


    AC-130A Project Gunship II
    AC-130A Surprise Package, Pave Pronto, AC-130E Pave Spectre
    • 4× 7.62 mm GAU-2/A miniguns
    • 2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
    • 2× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
    AC-130E Pave Aegis
    • 2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
    • 1× 40 mm L60 Bofors cannon
    • 1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer
    AC-130H Pave Spectre II
    AC-130U "Spooky" Gunship
     
  12. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    The Bofors cannon is terrifying with white phosphorous rounds.
     
  13. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    ANYTHING is terrifying with white phospherous rounds! :eek:
     
  14. packermatt7

    packermatt7 USAFA Cadet

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    He looks at the Air Force as if it is just made of bombers and fighters. What about transports, intelligence, and many other types of support? The list goes on and on.

    Space and Cyberspace also make up that list.
     
  15. jbrown

    jbrown Member

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    I hear you on this. It was almost always Marine or Navy. It just made since in the MAGTF. There were no delays, no lack of training together, etc.

    On the bombers, man you got that right. We would just look at each other when the thunder started and would say "Better them, than US" Just couldn't find any better words for it.
     
  16. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Read Mr. Kane's opinion piece this morning off the Early Bird. Gave me and the rest of the folks in my office a good chuckle. Let's just say my opinon on the matter tends to differ slightly from Mr. Kane's on the subject of the utility of the Air Force. :rolleyes:

    For the sake of keeping it friendly and avoid getting into an unnecessary heated debate here , I'll just remind Mr. Kane that he's has broken one of my Dad's favorite adages: "It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people THINK you're an idiot than to open it and PROVE it for them." :redface:

    Here's hoping the next Marine unit looking for some airlift out of theater has the good sense to offer a cold one and an apology to the crew as they board their "freedom flight". It's a long hump from BIAP to Kuwait... :wink:

    Two other quick thoughts:

    #1 - During my time as an Air Liaison Officer with the 82nd, got to get a couple of rides on an AC-130 mission (The words I'm looking for here are "Darn Impressive, and LOUD!"), AND control AC-130 strikes from the ground (The words I'm looking for here are "Holy Shnickees!!!"). Great plane, and it brings the Heat in ways that would make Angels weep in fear. :thumb:

    #2 - Mike, you really need to learn not to bottle up your emotions when you post! Holding all that anger and ridicule up inside you can get your blood pressure up! Come on, Man! Let us know how you REALLY feel about this article! :shake:
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You're right brother Bullet. I think I'll look on line for a class in "Assertiveness Training". Need to break out of my shyness. :sofa:
     
  18. ds52262

    ds52262 Member

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    I cannot believe I read that trash. CC you are right a complete MORON. As for the virtue of an independent Air Service I think it has been proven many times over dating back to Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold. And I know more Airmen then I care to think about who have made multiple trips to the various sandboxes to play.

    These days you would be very hard pressed to find an SF team that wants to go anywhere without their ETAC. Helps to have him along to bring on the heat from Spooky, The Warthog, and the rest. Yeah there are a whole lot of A/C I never wnat to be beneath on the wrong side, but an angry AC130 tops the list.

    As for the Marines and all there own assets I seem to remember the Fire Protection from the AF helping them out in Somalia during our last misadventure in the God-Forsaken place.
     
  19. jbrown

    jbrown Member

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    I didn't read it all.

    When I saw the response from CC, I got the full jist of it. And for a Marine to have written it, personally makes it a little worse. Kind of like when Murtha attacked the Haditha 8.

    Marines are a tight bunch, and it hurts to see someone who should be a brother behave in this way.
     
  20. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Packermatt - I have to honestly say I have wondered about this "Space and Cyberspace" stuff. I have seen the commercials but I don't recall it being mentioned on this forum.

    Can someone in the know (Bullet??), please explain what the AF does in "Space and Cyberspace"?
     

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