So sorry to hear this.
I think my brain would tell me to let him fail and then try and help him rebuild but my heart would be pulling me the other way. I think goaliedad gives good advice.
Again, so sorry.
Update on disenrollment from NROTC
- Thread starter Gojira
- Start date
I think my brain would tell me to let him fail and then try and help him rebuild but my heart would be pulling me the other way. I think goaliedad gives good advice.
Again, so sorry.
there are three things that are unsettling to me about how this Separation payback Obligation system is set up, and therefore in dire need of some reforms. I use Army as an example instead of Navy as that is the Branch with which I have more familiarity.
1) The amount owed, per my post on the prior page, is probably twice to three times as much as would have been paid directly to the school by the student who (outside ROTC Scholarship=Loan) accepts the school's original financial aid offer after admittance (e.g. a $40,000 tuition is lowered by the schools institutional funds to $15,000 for a family making $90,000 income). The reality is that at almost all Private schools, at least 65% of the students are on some sort of Financial Aid package. And the average American family makes much less in annual income than the $90,000 (2009 Census shows $52,000) I show in the example. Thus, after three years and then separation, the student would have paid the school $45,000 via financial aid, but by accepting the ROTC scholarship, the student will owe $120,000 payback. The school comes out the big winner by collecting $120,000 from the Army in tuition vs. the $45,000 the School would have collected had the student paid under Financial Aid. At a minimum, the Army could insert into their contract with the School a stipulation that in the event the student separates from ROTC, the School refund to the Army any amount over that amount specified in the student's original FA package, thus reducing the dollar amount the student would owe the Army in separation paypack. Alternatively, the school could charge the Army no more than what they would have collected from the Student with FA, from day 1.
2) One branch of our government (I assume the Dept. of Education) will only allow a student to accumulate a certain ceiling of Federal loan debt under their own name... I believe it is currently $28,000 total for the four years of college. Now we have another part of our government (Department of Defense) allowing a student to incur between five and seven times that amount of tuition debt, and legally. Now, in priciple, the ROTC 4 Yr. Scholarship is acts like a LOAN, since the amount must be repaid in full upon voluntary or involuntary failure to Commission. If the ROTC Scholarship acts like a loan in the event of separation, then Cadet Command should bow to the wisdom of its governmental counterpart and limit the Payback Obligation to the Federal Student Loan limit.
3) When a student contracts, whether that be at age 18 or 19, they are not mature enough to be allowed to legally drink, yet we ask them to sign a Contract with ROTC that will potentially cost them $160,000 in immediate debt. The student of that age normally does not have enough life experience to appreciate the magnitude of the risk they are incurring by signing a Contract that requires them to accept a debt of several years worth of after-tax income should they voluntarily or involuntarily separate from ROTC. I'm not sure what to recommend here... perhaps Cadet Command reimburese a cadet for an independent, Certified Financial Planner to have a 30 minute session with every Contractee to verify that the student understands the long term financial implications of the Separation Payback obligation. I recall the last time we took out a home loan, a Public Notary was required to certify that we had read and understood the implications of each and every one of the 100 or so pages attached to that loan.
And we do this to immature young Americans who are stepping forward to defend our freedoms. All three of those issues bother me. In other words, I think somebody at Cadet Command should look into the specifics of how this repayment obligation is structured and implemented. It almost borders on immoral.
Clarkson and Marist, I'd be interested in your opinion about my impressions. For the reasons I write above, I think the whole payback obligation is FUBAR.
1) The amount owed, per my post on the prior page, is probably twice to three times as much as would have been paid directly to the school by the student who (outside ROTC Scholarship=Loan) accepts the school's original financial aid offer after admittance (e.g. a $40,000 tuition is lowered by the schools institutional funds to $15,000 for a family making $90,000 income). The reality is that at almost all Private schools, at least 65% of the students are on some sort of Financial Aid package. And the average American family makes much less in annual income than the $90,000 (2009 Census shows $52,000) I show in the example. Thus, after three years and then separation, the student would have paid the school $45,000 via financial aid, but by accepting the ROTC scholarship, the student will owe $120,000 payback. The school comes out the big winner by collecting $120,000 from the Army in tuition vs. the $45,000 the School would have collected had the student paid under Financial Aid. At a minimum, the Army could insert into their contract with the School a stipulation that in the event the student separates from ROTC, the School refund to the Army any amount over that amount specified in the student's original FA package, thus reducing the dollar amount the student would owe the Army in separation paypack. Alternatively, the school could charge the Army no more than what they would have collected from the Student with FA, from day 1.
2) One branch of our government (I assume the Dept. of Education) will only allow a student to accumulate a certain ceiling of Federal loan debt under their own name... I believe it is currently $28,000 total for the four years of college. Now we have another part of our government (Department of Defense) allowing a student to incur between five and seven times that amount of tuition debt, and legally. Now, in priciple, the ROTC 4 Yr. Scholarship is acts like a LOAN, since the amount must be repaid in full upon voluntary or involuntary failure to Commission. If the ROTC Scholarship acts like a loan in the event of separation, then Cadet Command should bow to the wisdom of its governmental counterpart and limit the Payback Obligation to the Federal Student Loan limit.
3) When a student contracts, whether that be at age 18 or 19, they are not mature enough to be allowed to legally drink, yet we ask them to sign a Contract with ROTC that will potentially cost them $160,000 in immediate debt. The student of that age normally does not have enough life experience to appreciate the magnitude of the risk they are incurring by signing a Contract that requires them to accept a debt of several years worth of after-tax income should they voluntarily or involuntarily separate from ROTC. I'm not sure what to recommend here... perhaps Cadet Command reimburese a cadet for an independent, Certified Financial Planner to have a 30 minute session with every Contractee to verify that the student understands the long term financial implications of the Separation Payback obligation. I recall the last time we took out a home loan, a Public Notary was required to certify that we had read and understood the implications of each and every one of the 100 or so pages attached to that loan.
And we do this to immature young Americans who are stepping forward to defend our freedoms. All three of those issues bother me. In other words, I think somebody at Cadet Command should look into the specifics of how this repayment obligation is structured and implemented. It almost borders on immoral.
Clarkson and Marist, I'd be interested in your opinion about my impressions. For the reasons I write above, I think the whole payback obligation is FUBAR.
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It's a hard spot to be in, but those reasons don't all add up to forgiveness:
1 - The student chose to accept a ROTC scholarship instead of regular financial aid. It's all the same to the school, since they would turn around and give that financial aid to someone else. Hard to see how the school benefits, and the student chose an option that looked better at the time.
2 - The ROTC scholarship is not a loan, but it IS a contract. The contract was broken. The government didn't mean to make a loan, and the payback terms don't have to look like a loan.
3 - Yeah, the students should think ahead, as should every other adult who gets in over their head with a house, credit card debt, whatever.
Practically speaking, I would not like to see a young adult's life ruined. It's hard to see how a graduate in exercise science will ever be able to manage $96k in debt. On the other hand, it was completely irresponsible to withdraw on those terms. I do think that students should follow through on their contract obligations, even if they no longer see military service as a career. As a taxpayer and voter, I don't want to see this conduct rewarded. Allowing enlistment, during a period of reductions in force, just adds to the government's expense.
I would like to see less draconian repayment terms, but I do think it should be repaid.
1 - The student chose to accept a ROTC scholarship instead of regular financial aid. It's all the same to the school, since they would turn around and give that financial aid to someone else. Hard to see how the school benefits, and the student chose an option that looked better at the time.
2 - The ROTC scholarship is not a loan, but it IS a contract. The contract was broken. The government didn't mean to make a loan, and the payback terms don't have to look like a loan.
3 - Yeah, the students should think ahead, as should every other adult who gets in over their head with a house, credit card debt, whatever.
Practically speaking, I would not like to see a young adult's life ruined. It's hard to see how a graduate in exercise science will ever be able to manage $96k in debt. On the other hand, it was completely irresponsible to withdraw on those terms. I do think that students should follow through on their contract obligations, even if they no longer see military service as a career. As a taxpayer and voter, I don't want to see this conduct rewarded. Allowing enlistment, during a period of reductions in force, just adds to the government's expense.
I would like to see less draconian repayment terms, but I do think it should be repaid.
Glad you finally came out of the lurking shadows after all these years, but sorry to hear the reason. You are absolutely correct about the numbers not adding up. I suspect you will need to be the mentor of a math class.
And might I suggest a first lesson... He needs to design a spreadsheet of his financial life. Hopefully, you have a good working knowledge of Excel, because it can get quite complicated, but if he puts it together, he will definitely have the tools necessary to avoid making a similar mistake with other large financial decisions in his life (buying a house, getting married and having children).
He needs to chart and track over time his assets, liabilities (i.e. big loan), income (both when he gets a job and that support he may receive from you) and expenses. I suggest separate tabs in the same workbook for each financial category. I can describe each.
Asset Tab (the simplest).
First column heading - Date (Month/Year)
Second column heading - Description of activity (make any notes about what is different besides the change in the values like traded in old car on new car)
Third column heading - Total Asset Value (use Sum across the rest of the row
Fourth through Nth column heading - Current Value of X (X being the description of any asset can be liquidated like bank account, car, cash in wallet, etc)
On this sheet, he keeps track of the value of his Assets making single line entries for each addition or subtraction from the value from that asset (e.g. payroll deposit into bank account, interest added to bank account, annual depreciation of car from KBB book value)
Liability Tab (just about as simple)
Same first and Second column headings
Third column heading - Total Liability Outstanding (sum across columns like on the Asset sheet)
Fourth through Nth column heading - Balance of Y (Y being the description of any collectable debt owed like the Military payback, car note, etc.)
On this Sheet he make entries each time the amount of a liability is decreased (or increased) - typically monthly outstanding balance after principal payment is applied.
Income Tab (not too hard either)
First and Second Columns (like the above)
Third column heading - total monthly income (sum across row)
Fourth through Nth column heading - Income Source (job, gift, tax refund, etc.)
One row per month (like the above detailing the total money coming in)
Expenses Tab (the tough one)
First and Second columns (like the above)
Third column heading - total monthly expenses (sum across row)
Fourth through Nth column heading - Description of the outflow of money (payment on Govt note, car payment, clothes, entertainment, etc.)
Like the others 1 row per month will do.
You can pre-populate rows for known values (use a payoff schedule for notes). You can also project out future income streams once he gets a job.
On a 5th tab, create a table with 5 columns (date, total assets from 1st tab by formula, total liabilities from 2nd tab by forumula, and net worth as the difference between the 2 previous columns. Create graph showing the series of Total Assets minus Total Liabilities (a basic net worth calculation - this one will hurt) over the time laid out on your charts. Hint as his bank account grows, the net worth will improve more than the original projection).
On a 6th tab, create a table with 5 columns (date, total income from 3rd tab (by formula), total expenses from 4th tab (by formula), and net cash flow (difference between previous 2 columns). Chart this on this tab. BTW, this figure should also calculate to be the same as the net increase/decrease in Assets in previous tab if all the accounting is done correctly.
It is up to him to fill this out and make it balance out. Welcome to Personal Accounting 101.
With regards to providing support, if you are going to do so, I suggest that it be in kind (Room and board) over cash. You get to choose the location (home or other). If he is living at home, hopefully he can serve as an example to his siblings of the consequences of ones own decisions in a positive light.
I am assuming here that you would have paid a certain amount for his college which Uncle Sam assumed for a while. Now that your son has created a situation where you will now need to pony up THAT amount, explain it to him as this is what I would have given you HAD you not received the scholarship, not as something that he gets for making a bad decision. You were giving him X percentage of his education. Here it is paid over time.
Hope this helps...
Right, I'm not advocating forgiveness. I'm advocating for a less draconian, to use your word, Contract.
As to the school not profiting, it is not true that the money they save from not giving Institutional Aid to this student would be given to another. That is not how it works. Each admitted student is evaluated independently of all other students, so the windfall of $75k the School received from this Student's attendance is simply put back into the overall kitty.
You are right, it is not technically a loan... however, it CONVERTS to a loan in a lot of quite reasonable circumstances, and therefore ACTS like a loan at conversion. If the Gov't won't allow a student to incur more than $28k debt in Federal loans (and rightly so), why does Cadet Command write a contract that would, in an instant, obligate a student to $120k in loan?
I am with you in: "I would not like to see a young adult's life ruined".
I am not so much responding to this one student's voluntary separation. I am referring to the many different reasons a student might separate. I think Cadet Command should revisit this Scholarship Agreement, and think of ways that would mitigate the ruination of a cadet's financial life for years and years. I don't write this as a parent to whom this has happened, because it hasn't, but as an observer, businessman, and citizen generally concerned about the welfare of all of us.
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In my opinion the problem is less with the government and more with the schools themselves.
When my older son started college there was a scholarship program that allowed students from certain western states to attend a college in a neighboring state at a reduced rate for tuition, almost what instate cost. When my son got his first college accounting statement it showed the Army paying the full OOS tuition, we asked about this and were told that they charged the Army the rack rate. For the four years my son attended the college he kept his GPA in the range needed for the cross state scholarship but the school still charged the Army the full tuition amount.
This seems to be something the Army and every service should look at, I don't think the colleges should charge the full tuition to the government for a student that meets the requirements for the reduced tuition.
The Army is in a tought situation, they paid what was charged, if the cadet leaves or is dis-enrolled then they are required to get back what they paid. The issue to me is that the Army should never have been charged the full amount in the first place, providing the student meet all the requirements for reduced tuition. This is where I think the fault is with the college and how they charge.
The same goes with many other expenses as well. When my son went to North Carolina for CTLT I looked at his travel papers. The Army was charged $1300.00 for the round trip ticket, I could get the same flight on the same airline for $345.00 through Expedia. Not hard to see why the budget is so high.
One thing to consider regarding private schools with high tuition, many, not all, will give the student free R&B if they are on a scholarship, I guess it's their way of giving the student the money they would have discounted their tuition had they not received the scholarship.
I have always advised that any student applying for the scholarship, pick schools you can afford if you happen to lose the scholarship. I see too many students pick high priced schools saying "This is great, now I can afford this school with the scholarship" Storys like this bring hope the point, don't over reach beyond your means.
My wife and I invested money early on to pay for four years in state tuition for both sons. We have always told them that if something happens and you lose your scholarship because of your actions, we will pay the equivilant of the four years instate tuition, the rest is on them. Both chose a school that would be affordable without the tuition, lowered a lot of stress.
When my older son started college there was a scholarship program that allowed students from certain western states to attend a college in a neighboring state at a reduced rate for tuition, almost what instate cost. When my son got his first college accounting statement it showed the Army paying the full OOS tuition, we asked about this and were told that they charged the Army the rack rate. For the four years my son attended the college he kept his GPA in the range needed for the cross state scholarship but the school still charged the Army the full tuition amount.
This seems to be something the Army and every service should look at, I don't think the colleges should charge the full tuition to the government for a student that meets the requirements for the reduced tuition.
The Army is in a tought situation, they paid what was charged, if the cadet leaves or is dis-enrolled then they are required to get back what they paid. The issue to me is that the Army should never have been charged the full amount in the first place, providing the student meet all the requirements for reduced tuition. This is where I think the fault is with the college and how they charge.
The same goes with many other expenses as well. When my son went to North Carolina for CTLT I looked at his travel papers. The Army was charged $1300.00 for the round trip ticket, I could get the same flight on the same airline for $345.00 through Expedia. Not hard to see why the budget is so high.
One thing to consider regarding private schools with high tuition, many, not all, will give the student free R&B if they are on a scholarship, I guess it's their way of giving the student the money they would have discounted their tuition had they not received the scholarship.
I have always advised that any student applying for the scholarship, pick schools you can afford if you happen to lose the scholarship. I see too many students pick high priced schools saying "This is great, now I can afford this school with the scholarship" Storys like this bring hope the point, don't over reach beyond your means.
My wife and I invested money early on to pay for four years in state tuition for both sons. We have always told them that if something happens and you lose your scholarship because of your actions, we will pay the equivilant of the four years instate tuition, the rest is on them. Both chose a school that would be affordable without the tuition, lowered a lot of stress.
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Hewson: I don't have anything to add in terms of advice on how to deal with your son, but I did want to say I'm sorry to hear of his situation. Since you mentioned he declined a board I assume he saw the writing on the wall that he was going. Nevertheless, it is a rather draconian situation he is in.
Dunninla: I agree that something ought to be done. If nothing else, since they can drop at the end of freshman year, the military could decline to include at least that amount in any repayment. Not as far reaching as what you suggest, but I wouldn't be adverse to your suggestion either. If not the $28K as an upper limit, then some upper limit. Of course then you have to worry about folks gaming the system in either case, but the way it is with college costs now someone will pay the piper, either the student or the military. Repayment perhaps made sense when college costs were more reasonable. Not so now. I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a loan for their entire college tuition, and I don't think the government should treat them as if they did.
Dunninla: I agree that something ought to be done. If nothing else, since they can drop at the end of freshman year, the military could decline to include at least that amount in any repayment. Not as far reaching as what you suggest, but I wouldn't be adverse to your suggestion either. If not the $28K as an upper limit, then some upper limit. Of course then you have to worry about folks gaming the system in either case, but the way it is with college costs now someone will pay the piper, either the student or the military. Repayment perhaps made sense when college costs were more reasonable. Not so now. I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a loan for their entire college tuition, and I don't think the government should treat them as if they did.
@dunninla - I don't think it converts to a loan. This is a penalty for breaking the contract. It's more like a court judgement that can't be paid all at once. Nobody intended to lend or borrow money. Regarding the financial aid going back out, my opinion is based on the idea that schools spend their financial aid budgets and that adjustments are sometimes made for individual students. Yes, they evaluate each student separately, but statistically they have to stay on budget. I guess we agree on the main idea that a student in this situation ought to be able to live outside his/her parents' home while paying this back.
@jcleppe - that's interesting about the out-of-state rates. My son is at TAMU and I think, but am not sure, that the school charges in-state rates to the Army. They do for my son because he's already got the in-state waiver and it shows on the school statement that way. But I don't know if this applies to everyone on scholarship. We also have money saved to nearly cover his "payback" if something goes wrong, but it's in a 529 plan. Wonder if that would be a qualified withdrawal?
@hewson - I heartily second goaliedad's idea. Your son needs to get into a mode of planning ahead.
@jcleppe - that's interesting about the out-of-state rates. My son is at TAMU and I think, but am not sure, that the school charges in-state rates to the Army. They do for my son because he's already got the in-state waiver and it shows on the school statement that way. But I don't know if this applies to everyone on scholarship. We also have money saved to nearly cover his "payback" if something goes wrong, but it's in a 529 plan. Wonder if that would be a qualified withdrawal?
@hewson - I heartily second goaliedad's idea. Your son needs to get into a mode of planning ahead.
Dunn is spot on
Dunn, your last two posts are very thoughtful.
The sad thing is that the escalation of costs in higher education is eerily reminiscent of the property bubble of the mid 2000's, escalating health care costs and the dot com bubble. The student loan bubble is right around the corner.
While we can argue about reasons or reaponsibility of the victims(?), the enablers are many and they profit hansomely. Unfortunately, the gov't has provided much of the money, cover and protection to make the system run as it does. Go take a look sometime at the figures on how much GI Bill $ ends up with for profit colleges and institutes.
Sadly, this is what we demand: a bigger house, an immediate MRI for our 12 year old, a prestigious college for the kids.
Dunn, your last two posts are very thoughtful.
The sad thing is that the escalation of costs in higher education is eerily reminiscent of the property bubble of the mid 2000's, escalating health care costs and the dot com bubble. The student loan bubble is right around the corner.
While we can argue about reasons or reaponsibility of the victims(?), the enablers are many and they profit hansomely. Unfortunately, the gov't has provided much of the money, cover and protection to make the system run as it does. Go take a look sometime at the figures on how much GI Bill $ ends up with for profit colleges and institutes.
Sadly, this is what we demand: a bigger house, an immediate MRI for our 12 year old, a prestigious college for the kids.
I think TAMU is in a different situation since it is a SMC, I'm sure if payback became necessary it would be charged at the in-state rate the Army was charged.
Luigi59
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Pima
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Luigi,
Did you read the sentence before what you quoted??
That's the gift I was talking about. I also talked about how this debt is going to impact his credit. Thus, why I said:
Financial advisers, tax attorneys, etc. can help him navigate this path.
If his birthday is coming up, give it as a gift. He will probably resent you now for doing it, instead of that new Xbox game, but in 15 months from now when he wants to buy a car, he will appreciate the gift.
Hewson, the parent even understood what I was saying. They stated hiring a financial adviser is probably the way to go.
Did you read the sentence before what you quoted??
That's the gift I was talking about. I also talked about how this debt is going to impact his credit. Thus, why I said:
Financial advisers, tax attorneys, etc. can help him navigate this path.
If his birthday is coming up, give it as a gift. He will probably resent you now for doing it, instead of that new Xbox game, but in 15 months from now when he wants to buy a car, he will appreciate the gift.
Hewson, the parent even understood what I was saying. They stated hiring a financial adviser is probably the way to go.
Oh, I just thought you were one of those disconnected 1%ers.
What happens if he cannot pay? Can he declare bankruptcy? Most kids straight out of college don't make 50k per year, and are in no position to pay back 4000 per month. Why is the repayment not over a longer term like most student loans? I definitely believe there was ,at best, a communication problem, and ,at worst, a total failure of leadership at the unit.
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Although I agree the results of what occurred are somewhat draconian there is no way you can support that last statement. We have no idea what occurred to cause the kid to withdraw from the program. The fact that he declined a board indicates he was in some kind of trouble or at least did not meet standards. Other than that we know nothing. And certainly it isn't the unit that sets the terms of repayment. Finally, these kids are made aware of the risks... like all kids they are immortal and don't consider it might happen to them. Although I feel for this young person who has gotten deep into debt one cannot legitimately claim there was a failure of leadership at the unit.
It is my understanding that bankruptcy will not affect government debts like the note on his ROTC withdrawal. That debt payment probably would be considered in bankruptcy in his ability to pay back other (non-government, non-student loan) debt. Most likely though, he probably doesn't have other debts to discharge.
Agree with Kinnem as to the fact that we don't have enough information to make the judgement on the rest of the situation.
Remember, cadets are in ROTC at least 1 year before they get themselves into this mess. If they haven't figured out they are a bad match for ROTC by then, they will pay the price for not completing their obligation. It is an adult decision with adult consequences.
Pima
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+1 to kinnem and goaliedad.
Before answer is your child on scholarship? If so, did you read the fine print?
For AFROTC at least, it is in the writing what constitutes a breach of contract. The unit had no obligation to remind them. They did not meet the mark that they signed on for as an 18 yr old when they contracted.
The scholarship contract is tilted to giving the military every option out, and little to no option for the cadet.
Basically they can leave at the end of yr 1. Hewson's DS, decided to leave at end of yr 3. Nobody asked him to dis-enroll. 12 months prior to commissioning. They were down the rabbit hole.
An assumption is being made that he was not counseled on the impact before asking to be disenrolled.
Finally, just a quick question. Many kids take student loans. Would you fault the college for at best a communication failure, at worst leadership if a student takes 3 yrs in loans and leaves without a degree? My math says 3 yrs in, they are 21. When does responsibility fall on their shoulders for their decisions?
I am not trying to be hard. Just saying, he was suppose to commission next May...13 months from now.
I am also trying to illustrate that these kids not only sign the scholarship paperwork, but sign again when they contract. They re-sign again when they become a POC. It is not OMG I didn't know. They had outs.
Gojira's DS was very unique. It basically came down to timing. He got the short end of the stick, and I adore Gojira, but I am sure she would agree...her DS knew he was 8 lbs overweight and risking commissioning. They do watch weight...i.e. taping.
The Navy was cutting commissionings. Had he been under the max, he probably would have had a different outcome. The cadre should not be held responsible for that issue. They are not monitors.
Caveat here: Her DS was showing progress, but in the end of the day...cadre support matters more than anyone can imagine.
040726 said:
Before answer is your child on scholarship? If so, did you read the fine print?
For AFROTC at least, it is in the writing what constitutes a breach of contract. The unit had no obligation to remind them. They did not meet the mark that they signed on for as an 18 yr old when they contracted.
The scholarship contract is tilted to giving the military every option out, and little to no option for the cadet.
Basically they can leave at the end of yr 1. Hewson's DS, decided to leave at end of yr 3. Nobody asked him to dis-enroll. 12 months prior to commissioning. They were down the rabbit hole.
An assumption is being made that he was not counseled on the impact before asking to be disenrolled.
Finally, just a quick question. Many kids take student loans. Would you fault the college for at best a communication failure, at worst leadership if a student takes 3 yrs in loans and leaves without a degree? My math says 3 yrs in, they are 21. When does responsibility fall on their shoulders for their decisions?
I am not trying to be hard. Just saying, he was suppose to commission next May...13 months from now.
I am also trying to illustrate that these kids not only sign the scholarship paperwork, but sign again when they contract. They re-sign again when they become a POC. It is not OMG I didn't know. They had outs.
Gojira's DS was very unique. It basically came down to timing. He got the short end of the stick, and I adore Gojira, but I am sure she would agree...her DS knew he was 8 lbs overweight and risking commissioning. They do watch weight...i.e. taping.
The Navy was cutting commissionings. Had he been under the max, he probably would have had a different outcome. The cadre should not be held responsible for that issue. They are not monitors.
Caveat here: Her DS was showing progress, but in the end of the day...cadre support matters more than anyone can imagine.
We do not believe their was a communication or leadership error in my sons dis enrollment situation.
Just trying to figure out how the debt can be repaid. Again, he intends to assume financial responsibility, but without a full time job or degree, not sure how he can do that.
Any suggestions or experiences anyone can share regarding dfas and their terms....interest rate, length of loan, ect as well as dealing with them old be helpful.
Thanks.
Just trying to figure out how the debt can be repaid. Again, he intends to assume financial responsibility, but without a full time job or degree, not sure how he can do that.
Any suggestions or experiences anyone can share regarding dfas and their terms....interest rate, length of loan, ect as well as dealing with them old be helpful.
Thanks.
P-Flying17
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Call 866-912-6488. You can take up to 10 years to pay it back that I am aware of. They review it case by case. You can request a lower payment. You can probably get that down to $750 a month. Still not great but better than $4000. If he can get within regs, maybe discuss enlistment option????