Update on disenrollment from NROTC

Just curious why anyone would want to know.

1. Det Commanders are AD military. Tours are usually 3-4 yrs. This occurred 18 months ago. Even if they were only in the position for 6 months. They would be PCSing 1 yr from now, or at least working on their next job.

~~~ Paperwork is not handled by the CoC, but the NCOIC, at least for AFROTC. That means they could be gone too.

2. If you are AROTC, and even if it is the same college, they were NROTC.

~~~ Different branches.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to understand why the college matters.

+1 to Pima. I had been thinking the exact same thing but didn't post that. Thanks for doing it for me Pima.
 
After learning of similar instances and the pitfalls of being an ROTC cadet at a civilian college/university, I am more convinced that given a choice between attending a SA and ROTC scholarship, this helps make the decision easier to make.
Keep in mind that there is also a possibility of being "dis-enrolled' from a SA and a resulting hefty payback. My son was just made aware of a Firstie that is being released from USAFA only days/weeks before commissioning.
 
Keep in mind that there is also a possibility of being "dis-enrolled' from a SA and a resulting hefty payback. My son was just made aware of a Firstie that is being released from USAFA only days/weeks before commissioning.

I have to agree with this one, and the payback can be a lot higher at a SA.
 
One of our family friend's kids just got into West Point. I have had this conversation with her and her parents numerous times - in fact, her parents were with me when we got the news of his disenrollment. She was considering applying for admission. They are nice enough about it, but I believe they think it could never happen to their kid. At least they know it is a possibility at the beginning.

I believe the payback could be potentially higher in a SA, as well. I suspect more cadets get weeded out early in process, though.
 
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Academies give you two years to leave with no obligation. But still it's a very hefty price tag if you leave later.
 
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Academies give you two years to leave with no obligation. But still it's a very hefty price tag if you leave later.

Your right, 2 years. never quite understood that completely. The SA's have such a high price tag but they allow two years with no obligation, and if they do leave there is not set amount for payback, it seems to be negotiated case by case.

Sorry to change the subject.

Gojira,

You could not be more correct, a lot of people think this will never happen to their kid, even those that have high grades, great PT, and meet all the requirements, sometimes find themselves in a situation that can cause dis-enrollment. Knowing this type of information up front is the best thing you can do. This has always been in the back of our minds and we let them know that from time to time.

A lot of people breath a sigh of relief when the son or daughter commissions, sort of saying whew they made it through without anything happening. What a lot do not think about is that they now have to fulfill their obligation to whatever service they are in. Should something happen and they are discharged they can still be on the hook for some repayment if they have not completely met their service obligation.
 
Your right, 2 years. never quite understood that completely. The SA's have such a high price tag but they allow two years with no obligation, and if they do leave there is not set amount for payback, it seems to be negotiated case by case.

Sorry to change the subject.

Gojira,

You could not be more correct, a lot of people think this will never happen to their kid, even those that have high grades, great PT, and meet all the requirements, sometimes find themselves in a situation that can cause dis-enrollment. Knowing this type of information up front is the best thing you can do. This has always been in the back of our minds and we let them know that from time to time.

A lot of people breath a sigh of relief when the son or daughter commissions, sort of saying whew they made it through without anything happening. What a lot do not think about is that they now have to fulfill their obligation to whatever service they are in. Should something happen and they are discharged they can still be on the hook for some repayment if they have not completely met their service obligation.

I'll breathe two sighs. One, when he gets to 21 next year and a second when he commissions.
 
How many college scholarships do you know that can taken away retroactively for previous years studies, besides ROTC and Service academies? Anyone? Anyone? There aren't any that I know of.

Very Important thought.
 
Keep in mind that there is also a possibility of being "dis-enrolled' from a SA and a resulting hefty payback. My son was just made aware of a Firstie that is being released from USAFA only days/weeks before commissioning.
Once they sign on the dotted line, they're active service. They're viewed as consenting adults. Anything they sign up for is legally binding. It is very unfortunate and very frightening to learn of such incidents but it is what it is. These anecdotes of disenrollment and getting in trouble whether in ROTC or at a SA serves a greater purpose of warning to others. It's not just the monetary payback or a diversion of direction in one's ambition that is disheartening but a demise of a noble dream of serving one's country as an officer.
 
Keep in mind that there is also a possibility of being "dis-enrolled' from a SA and a resulting hefty payback. My son was just made aware of a Firstie that is being released from USAFA only days/weeks before commissioning.

There is a thread going right now in the AFA forum regarding a cadet that is being released 22 days before graduation.

Violations were:
Tie too short
Missed a class
Girlfriend spent the night in his room.

Anyone thinking that the Academy is a safer route needs to make sure they really understand all the rules.
 
Not necessarily safer but with less distractions.
Unless discipline and good sense is internalized, it doesn't matter whether it's in a private college, public university or service academy. A lapse of good judgment has dire consequences.
 
I think the hardest thing to see in this ordeal was how this changed my son's trajectory on a dime. He had wanted to be an officer for so long - since he was 11 years old. When that possibility vanished, it sent him into Plan B mode.

When you have a plan for a decade, it s hard to shift gears. If he was not officer material in eyes of his command, I wish they would have told him two years ago. He could have had a different college experience. He could have been less wrapped up in all things Navy. It would not have been quite as personally devastating.

I honestly think even if it happened 1 year before commissioning, it would have been better on his psyche!

Our kids face difficult things all the time. He would have had stressful situations as an officer, possibly life and death decisions. Yet, that would have been easier for him, I think. It has been hard for him to talk with his friends about the Navy who are living the life he should have. Fortunately, they are a good bunch and have been great through this process.
 
Maybe not less, just different ones.

Agreed:thumb:

To the OP, It seems like he's going to bounce back from this and find his calling. Good luck to him and thanks for sharing your experience. It lends a very valuable lesson for those that are yet to begin their roller coaster rides.
 
I would say the only advantage besides cost to having this happen at a civilian university/ROTC is that the student has the option of completing the final classes and getting their degree.

When this happens at an Academy they leave with no chance of getting the degree from that Academy. The student now has to navigate transferring what credits they can to a Civilian college and then make up the classes that won't transfer, adding to the cost of the degree.

Gojira,

Best of luck to your son.
 
I do not visit this board very often, but happened to check in tonight.

Just to clarify since I am the OP of this thread...

Son brought before board 3 weeks before graduation/commissioning, not 6 weeks

No, he did not realize he was 8 pounds overweight

His original DFAS bill was 4,000 a month for 3 years. He asked to reduce amount to less - than it was 1200 for 10 years, plus interest

Not dischargable debt. Cannot deduct interest on taxes, either.

Yes, we would have qualified for substantial financial aid for at least two years, as my husband was downsized out of his job.

Our elected representatives were of absolutely no help, whatsoever.

We retained a retired military attorney, which has helped him in completing paperwork for appeals.

If he had left ROTC of his own accord after freshman year, they would not have billed him for that year. They do if dissenrolled after that time if seeking payback.

It s at discretion of commanders what kind of payback - money or service - tgat they want.

Ironically, even though son was told he was dissenrolled three weeks before graduation/commissioning, the CO was nice enough to sign those papers the day my son should have been given his stripes. What a really sweet gesture, to twist that knife just a little more.

I would love to say I have seen the contract, but as I previously mentioned many posts ago, his battalion "misplaced" it long ago. We know it exists, yet when he asked for his file, it wasn't there. It was missing when he originally signed it in sophomore year. A name mixup, supposedly. Lots of shoddy paperwork over the course of multiple years in that battalion. Reports signed by CO months - or even years (not kidding) before son saw reports.

Never failed PT, not once.

Takeaway is, don't send your kid to a school that you cannot afford if scholarship is lost.

The other thing to remember is, don't ever screw up in ROTC. Ever. Big mistakes, little mistakes can add up to you being booted.

How many college scholarships do you know that can taken away retroactively for previous years studies, besides ROTC and Service academies? Anyone? Anyone? There aren't any that I know of.

It was not clear to us at any time during the application process that normal financial aid would not be processed the same way as for other students. If we had known, we would have encouraged him to attend the much lower cost school that he was accepted to.

Yes, he is an adult, now. He wasn't when applying for NROTC. I did a huge amount of research and never even heard of disenrollement orbit's ramifications until that day he contacted us with the news.

Every branch is different, and every CO s different. What is a kicking out offense in one battalion may get a warning in another.

Lots of things to learn from our situation. The only reason I post here periodically is to remind kids and their parents to use caution and read the fine print. We were dazzled by this dream come true for our son, not realizing that he would face this difficult situation at this age. This kid had wanted to serve since he was 11 or 12, and it was pretty shattering when that dream ended.

Ironically, we pushed him to apply for NROTC scholarship. He really had initially wanted to enlist.

Thank you again for supplying further insight into the situation you and your son face.

I guess the 10-year payback is progress, if you can call it that.

And I guess calling it a "scholarship" when it isn't until you complete your commitment is a stretch. Perhaps a "forgivable loan" might be more accurate, but somehow that big loan document doesn't look as appealing at Senior Awards Night as a big check.

And the crazy thing is that if they administered the program like a big government loan (on top of your current financial aid), most students who wash out (for reasons good and bad) wouldn't be in as deep of a hole because they often get generous FA from the school (see recent stories about how the average discount to tuition at high-cost privates approaches 45%). Not only that, Uncle Sam would actually put less money out of his pocket not paying "rack-rate" when almost everyone else attends for less.

The CO was leaving a few months after this decision, so yes, he is gone, now. His first CO during the first two years was absolutely amazing. Morale was high in unit, too.

It takes only one poorly placed officer to screw up something (see recent stories about controversial rape convictions being overturned). You'd think when they decide that someone isn't living up to standards and is subject to dismissal, you'd have a panel of officers convened to review the facts and determine penalties...

One of our family friend's kids just got into West Point. I have had this conversation with her and her parents numerous times - in fact, her parents were with me when we got the news of his disenrollment. She was considering applying for admission. They are nice enough about it, but I believe they think it could never happen to their kid. At least they know it is a possibility at the beginning.

I believe the payback could be potentially higher in a SA, as well. I suspect more cadets get weeded out early in process, though.

I think everyone going into the service has to be an optimist, even those who are exposed to the worst of experiences. And at the academies, I think they get closer scrutiny and early corrective action than in the ROTC units, so washouts aren't left for the bitter end.

I think the hardest thing to see in this ordeal was how this changed my son's trajectory on a dime. He had wanted to be an officer for so long - since he was 11 years old. When that possibility vanished, it sent him into Plan B mode.

When you have a plan for a decade, it s hard to shift gears. If he was not officer material in eyes of his command, I wish they would have told him two years ago. He could have had a different college experience. He could have been less wrapped up in all things Navy. It would not have been quite as personally devastating.

I honestly think even if it happened 1 year before commissioning, it would have been better on his psyche!

Our kids face difficult things all the time. He would have had stressful situations as an officer, possibly life and death decisions. Yet, that would have been easier for him, I think. It has been hard for him to talk with his friends about the Navy who are living the life he should have. Fortunately, they are a good bunch and have been great through this process.

His friends are a credit to the service. They know the issue and have not gotten into the awkward situation of the bad experience affecting either their careers or their friendship.

Once again, best wishes to your family and thank you for all of your candid experience.
 
True - on plus side, he had his degree very shortly after this incident. That definitely would not have happened at a service academy!
 
Glad you see the silver lining.
Good luck to your son in his future endeavors.
 
There is a thread going right now in the AFA forum regarding a cadet that is being released 22 days before graduation.

Violations were:
Tie too short
Missed a class
Girlfriend spent the night in his room.
I believe that this is far from the whole story. Let's wait until we hear what the total demerits were before deciding how easy it is to be disenrolled from a SA.
 
I believe that this is far from the whole story. Let's wait until we hear what the total demerits were before deciding how easy it is to be disenrolled from a SA.

I definitely agree that there is most likely more to the story, there always seems to be in these cases.

I did not intend to suggest it was easy to be disenrolled, The sleep over was more then enough to get him thrown out, the rest I'm sure was just the nails to close the lid. I was just illustrating that the rules are different and applicants should make sure they understand them.
 
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