UPT and types of planes

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by thehoaxbuster, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. thehoaxbuster

    thehoaxbuster Member

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    Seeing as close to 50% of AFA grads go to UPT, I was wondering if anybody could shed some light on what percentage of those going to UPT get fighter jets, transports, bombers, reconnaissance, etc.
     
  2. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    Great Question. :thumb:
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Traditionally only 10% get fighters. The way to figure out the % for each is to look at the inventory. For example, if 50% are heavies, than it is not a leap to believe 50% of airframes that will come down assignment night will have a large amount of heavies.

    Now, here is the part you did not add into the equation. 50% of AFA grads get UPT, but out of that group, the graduation rate is not 100%.

    When you get to UPT, they do not care where you got your commissioning source. They do try to give AFA grads some more slack, but that slack is not going to guarantee you anything.

    When Bullet went to 111 FTU, he was crewed with 2 AFA grads. The 1st was a FAIP, the 2nd was a straight shot to 111's. The 1st did fine. The straight shot busted and was forced to meet an FEB. He lost his wings.

    AFA is the best foundation for flying, but it is not going to be a factor when you get to UPT.

    Good look.

    OBTW you forgot to add FAIP and UAVs into that equation.
     
  4. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    I have read that people get something called NSA out of UPT. What is it?
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I have no clue. Even on this site for the acronym list there is no NSA.

    NSA to me = National Security Agency.

    Now maybe what they are talking about is the AWAC (Airborne Warning and Control) world. This is where they have planes (E-3s) that fly around the world and talk to fliers regarding the mission. They are also known as ABM (air battalion management).

    This field is stressful because they are deployed a lot, usually about 200 days a yr.
     
  6. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    "I knows there's a few dudes out there with some info on U-28 and NSA aircraft and what their specific mission entails and what type of missions they are currently running.

    I understand this can't be talked about on forum so I was wondering if you could PM me if you have any information you can tell me about. Thanks"

    I got the above question from another website. Just wanted to know if anyone knows anything about this?
     
  7. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    I got the above question from another website. Just wanted to know if anyone knows anything about this?
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Honestly, if it is classified missions nobody will discuss this over the net, be it on a forum or a pm. They would lose their security clearance if they did.

    Bullet works on the 35, and even in our home when I ask him about what his day was like, he will be silent at times. I immediately say, I know, never mind, if you told me you would have to kill me.

    I googled the U-28, suffice to say, that is basically a different world. You are not going to get that plane straight out of UPT IMHO. You will first live in the mainstream world and compete for it later on when you have operational flight hours under your belt.

    Think of it this way...you won't get to be a Thunderbird or TP straight out of UPT, and you won't get AF1 either. If I read the background properly, you would probably have to have 8-10 yrs in as an AD pilot to enter that world...AT LEAST.

    You need to clear a lot of hurdles...get into the AFA, graduate, get UPT, graduate, go operational and be the top performer, be selected to X train and graduate from that program.

    Great to have dreams, and goals, but also it is important to go with the flow.
     
  9. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Pima, your age is showing. ;) There have been some airframe changes in the last 3 years and the NSA question relates.

    We have some cool aircraft in the inventory now like the U-28, MC-12, and a couple others. These are super-secret squirrel ISR aircraft that we use in covert operations. These are being dropped often out of UPT follow-on training. People actually want them because the mission is really cool. Won't go into detail on the brief my old AOC gave us, but, yes, these are now another option out of UPT. They are not typically a career A/C. They take new hot shots out for a tour or two then return them back to the mainstream and more training for their final platform. It's like getting an RPA tour first, but SO much better!
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Okay, I am old Hornet, and you, I and everyone in the world knows it :shake:, but at the same time, if a 22 comes down infrequently, how often do you think that plane comes down?

    My point was and is:

    1. Nobody with true knowledge will discuss the mission because that is classified.

    It would be like Flieger or Bullet discussing their missions for Gulf I, ONW/OSW, Gulf II in full detail.

    2. There are so many steps to clear before this is even a part of the equation. The biggest is:

    TIMING

    You may want to fly that airframe, but come assignment night you don't get to say I take the U-28, you pick from what is offered. No U-28 on the board, you will not get a U-28.


    Finally, I think you would be the 1st one to say, when you applied to the AFA you had a career in mind, what you walked out of the AFA for 1st assignment was not even on your radar at 17/18. You grew, and utilized the time at the AFA to expand your horizons.

    Again, that's my point. Goals are great, but life has a funny way of changing your goal. On the best day, they are looking at 5 yrs out (4 AFA, 1 UPT), I am old, old enough to remember how quickly the 117 entered and left the inventory. Old enough to remember that the A-10 was DOA (bone yard) prior to Gulf I, but lived many yrs because of their success in the Gulf.

    Nobody here predicted the impact that UAVs would have back in 2000, but now they are a big player.

    The variables are so large and so many that the best advice is to say...get into the AFA, graduate, get UPT and do well so IF it is on the table you can get it.

    To discuss anything more is just pipe dreaming.
     
  11. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    There is an old saying in the AF: Timing is everything. Based on casual observation on requirements, my best guess is that for you young pups looking to one day fly a fighter in the AF, the timing is starting to look better in your favor.
     
  12. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    yes, yes, Pima. Not disputing the gist of your statement! Just unknown knowledge these airframes. They are also much more common than a 22 drop. I would say they are dropped much more like helicopters in terms of frequency. My entering UPT classmates could probably be more specific.
     
  13. bandit

    bandit Member

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    Bullet, with all the talk of the UAS program, RIF and cuts to the F22 program and everything else. Would you care to elaborate on your comment at all?

    I know from a civilian perspective. Watching the news footage of the 5th generation fighter in china made me think exactly what you just said, but I don't know if that really has any bearing or not.

    It seems there is "stuff' starting to crop up everywhere that just makes me think, we are going to need lots and lots of fighter pilots for a long time to come. I type this as I am watching footage of riots in the streets of Cairo...
     
  14. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

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  15. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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  16. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Rather simple analysis, if you know where to look. So, let me tell you where to look:

    - The UAS requirement: Pretty high right now becuase of the current conflicts we are in. In fact, this requirement right now is HUUUUGE, and the build up of this requirement was sudden. Thus the push over the past several years to man the UAS operator fleet by diverting a LOT of the current aviators and the folks coming out of UPT to the UAS field.

    The situation now? We've finally caught up with the requirement, and continue to pump out new UAS operators at a tremendous rate.

    The situation in the very near future? The UAS requirement is gonna drop as we pull more and more assets from the two theaters we are currently engaged in. Thus the need to keep pumping out new operators will reduce.

    - The Fighter requirement? Well, when the UAS requirement became so huge, we solved it by taking folks form fighter cockpits and putting them in UAS trailers. Folks that would have been the backbone of the 2nd and 3rd tour cadre of aviators we normally rely on as our tip of the spear int he fighter community (flight leads, instructors, ect.) The AF also adjusted the proverbial "spiket" at UPT, where we reduced the number of floks going to fighters to meet that UAS requirement.

    Now, with a smaller cadre of young flyers in the flighter communities, and an aging cadre of experienced guys moving either up or out, the AF will discover (very soon) that they will need to somehow get more fighter aviators to man the fleet (whose size HAS NOT changed, over 2000 fighers currently in the AF fleet).

    Bottom Line: the Fighter requirement has NOT changed, but the manning levels of our younger and mid level aviators has been reduced.

    Result: expect the AF to start pumping out new figher pilots out of UPT at a higher rate int he veyr near future. What is currently at 2-3 folks per class will most likely double, if not even higher...

    And that is the good news for folks who may want a fighter in the near future (2 - 6 years from now) :thumb:
     
  17. bugsy

    bugsy Member

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    Bullet makes a good arguement.

    The AF personel pendulum tends to swing too far on things. We got rid of all the Navs in the early 90's and then realized we really need navs. Back in the day special ops was scoffed while SAC got all the funding. Now we stood up global strike command to regain the SAC edge. And Special Ops (AFSOC) is taking on new missions and new aircraft. So if history holds true Bullet's prediction of additional fighter opportunities as RPA (remotely piloted vehicles) stabalizes will be recognized.
     
  18. Strike Eagle

    Strike Eagle USAFA Cadet 2015

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    Ew. :thumbdown:
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Before you say ew and:thumbdown: think about how you will feel if all you wanted was the flying world and they gave you PAO?

    We are here for everyone, to support everyone, ew and :thumbdown: hurt the AF. If one day you get a 22 or 35, you will want that RPA member.

    Lesson 1:

    To achieve your mission goal, you need everyone, that includes the E-3 maintainer to that RPA pilot at Creech.

    Just a spouse, and a Mom, who has 2 loved ones that were/are in the AF world. I get the bravado. However, to me that comment was offensive. Be careful life has a funny way of biting you in the arse...in other words you might be that RPA pilot. How would you feel if the candidate for AFA (you) said ew :thumbdown: ?

    Throw it in the circular filing cabinet, I just hope you get that no mission is successful without every rank and every member including RPA.

    Sorry for getting on my soap box
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  20. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Brother Bullet: That's actually really good news for my little-one. He's a C2C currently, and most likely will get a UPT slot. But he wants to do grad-school first. "That's what he's applying for". That would put him at UPT in about 3-3.5 years. Hopefully his dream can come true. I believe they find out their AFSC in the next couple months. I know flying is his 1st dream. Then medical. Hopefully, it will all work out for him. Thanks. Mike....
     

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