US Air Force Academy brawl injures 23

Christcorp said:
Damn ramius. You couldn't have posted 3 minutes earlier??? :smile:

You said in 1 sentence what I tried to say in multiple paragraphs. I started the post then had to walk away and come back to finish it. LOL :thumb:
Click to expand...

Christcorp.......worth following........and appreciate your candor, humility, and (mostly) common sense.
 
Christcorp,

You make a lot of assumptions about what I am assuming! One of the difficulties of this type of communication:)

First, I was in no way assuming or implying that a parent should be handling things for their child. And quite honestly, the incident that this thread originally addressed doesn't really bother me at all and I can't see how a parent would need to be involved.

I think I was concerned more for the student (or active duty) who was the victim of something much more serious and what their recourse would be IF the chain of command did not address the situation adequately. I think all of society has an interest in something like. Just my humble opinion.

Like you, when my kids come to me with a problem my first response is to ask them how they plan to handle the situation. My job is not solve their problems but to support them and cheer them on:) Goodness knows I don't expect them (or anyone else!) to solve my problems, but I think all of us benefit from the support of friends and family throughout our lives.

We are all imperfect and the groups and institutions that we belong to are imperfect as well.

I appreciate the time you took to reply to me:)
 
Tigger; as you rightfully mentioned:

"IF" the chain of command did not address the situation adequately.

That's the key. The chain of command. So, you basically answered your own question that you posed to me. Shouldn't the public, media, etc... ever question the academies, military, and what goes on there? Obviously yes; but only after the chain of command has had the opportunity to do their job. Like Raimius said.

And you are correct; forums are a very difficult place to properly communicate. The writer usually knows 100% what they WANT to say. Unfortunately, what we write and the way it's received aren't always the same.
 
This is an internal matter and I cannot believe this thread has drawn so much attention and coverage... And while I won't get too political, this has gotten more coverage in the media than the administration's failure to back our troops and diplomats in Libya.:frown:
 
Texasrocks said:
This is an internal matter and I cannot believe this thread has drawn so much attention and coverage... And while I won't get too political, this has gotten more coverage in the media than the administration's failure to back our troops and diplomats in Libya.:frown:
Click to expand...

Boy, that's not political at all.
 
JMPO, but I feel like this thread should be combined with another thread on this site.

http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=23015

It appears cadets and recent grads feel much differently than some older generation posters...:eek: my age.

As for my generation...we all raised amazing kids, we took pride when they flew the coop as a sign they were the best and the brightest. Now all of the sudden when they had a snowball fight where some were bruised and bumped we as a parents want them to be protected! We want traditions to end because our child might be hurt.

Honestly, I do see it as a helo parent issue.

Want to make issues with what is wrong in the SA/ADAF world, there are plenty...spice, sexual assaults, cheating, etc. Snowball fight, IMPO shouldn't even rank #999 out of 1000.

Yes, it is our tax dollars. Yes, they are the future leaders, but what does it say when you lambaste the system your child is in? It says to me...distrust.

They are 18-22 yr old kids. They had a flipping snowball fight that got out of control. Would you be calling the dean at HYPPSM if you read on Drudge 27 students out of 4000 were injured with minor injuries and demanding more from any of those schools? If so, you proved my point this is a helo issue. If not you need to ask why you wouldn't. Many of these kids take federal loans and grants...your tax dollars.

Before we go down the rabbit hole of injuries and AD world, please link any link that proves 1 cadet was medically turned back.

As Christcorp and Tigger have stated this is a forum, and it is hard to gauge intonation. I am doing my own pre-emptive strike. I am not trying to be antagonistic, just saying ask yourself why this is a huge issue. Why you would place these kids at a higher level than yourself. Are you willing to say you are not equal to them regarding personal values and leadership? I love our DS. I am dang proud of him as a person, but I believe he is the man he is because what Bullet and I instilled in him as parents. JMPO, but that is how I feel as a parent, and why I believe this is a non-issue.
 
Last edited:
So, I'm reading along here and then into my small brain pops this wonder:

Had this been 1954, none of the parents would have known ANYTHING about this entire topic! Even 1964 or 1974. Now, we're all up in it as are the cadets who post here.

Time does change things.
 
fencersmother said:
So, I'm reading along here and then into my small brain pops this wonder:

Had this been 1954, none of the parents would have known ANYTHING about this entire topic! Even 1964 or 1974. Now, we're all up in it as are the cadets who post here.

Time does change things.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing, fencersmother, as well as focusing in on how an "internal" email (that sounded like it was to staff?) happened to make it to the news outlets. I am guessing BG Born is learning, as many others have, that the "convenience" of email isn't worth it for anything sensitive or even just "juicy." (And I'm sure she regrets using the very juicy noun "brawl," which provided a built-in headline.) Nowadays, if you wouldn't enjoy reading it on the front page of the paper, you almost have to make a phone call or call an in-person meeting (and hope, like Mitt Romney, nobody records you on their cell phone!).

I'm sure trying to balance tradition while thinking "how will this play in Peoria" is a real concern for the Service Academies, as they rely on Congressional funding and do have to worry about public opinion as it impacts Congressional oversight and funding. If you've ever read some of the comments on the funny videos that mids/cadets post on YouTube (e.g. the recent Gangnam style parodies from the various SAs), you'll see that at least a few are of the "our tax dollars at work" angry criticism. When the top brass say "what will we tell your parents about how you got hurt," they may also be thinking "and what will we tell the AP, and Fox News, and CNN, and the Congressional committee."

(With all of this said, First Shirt/First Snow generally sounds like a blast.)
 
While we like to talk about it here, I think we'll find a majority of the country doesn't know the Air Force Academy exists, and the VAST majority of the country either partially read the story and ignored it, or never heard the story at all.

Other than that, the emails of midshipmen and cadets are subject to FOIA requests, so if you don't want it out there, don't email it with an official government email account. I KNOW there are many things I emailed friends as a cadet that I wouldn't want getting out.

If it's not classified, not confidential or not FOUO.... then you have no protections on a government computer.
 
wow

Thats crazy!!! And kinda funny but if it has been getting more violent why does the USAFA not know about this and stop it?
 
alpine,

I know this is a long thread, and you might not have read the 13 pages, but yes the AFA leadership knows about it, this is a long standing tradition. The Supe is not only an AFA grad, but his 2 sons commissioned only in the last 5-7 yrs or so, thus, as a Dad he knew about it even if it didn't exist when he was a cadet.

I won't answer the 2nd part, because we just got the thread to temper down on why they have not stopped it, let's let that sleeping dog sleep.
 
LineInTheSand said:
While we like to talk about it here, I think we'll find a majority of the country doesn't know the Air Force Academy exists, and the VAST majority of the country either partially read the story and ignored it, or never heard the story at all.

Other than that, the emails of midshipmen and cadets are subject to FOIA requests, so if you don't want it out there, don't email it with an official government email account. I KNOW there are many things I emailed friends as a cadet that I wouldn't want getting out.

If it's not classified, not confidential or not FOUO.... then you have no protections on a government computer.
Click to expand...


I would not say it is a "VAST majority", probably not quite as VAST as the number of people that don't kow there is a Coast Guard Academy, come to think of it, or even a Coast Guard they probably think it is the Navy.
 
This video of USAFA (back in my day! ;) ) shows hall brawls and first shirt, first snow to give an idea. May be violent, but boy it was fun! When I was a group supt, the 4 digs in my group decided to come get me as the closest group version of the first shirt.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lan5lLN_GKo
 
DevilDog said:
I would not say it is a "VAST majority", probably not quite as VAST as the number of people that don't kow there is a Coast Guard Academy, come to think of it, or even a Coast Guard they probably think it is the Navy.
Click to expand...

Ha, I don't doubt that for one second! Heck I'm sure a few New Londoners are confused to this day.

That said, I think you may be giving our fellow Americans too much credit. When we look at the "vast" in America, it get's a little sad.

I'll stand by "vast majority."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top