USAFA vs. ROTC programs? (in terms of life after)

jamestribe said:
Question - is USAFA the "SA" for med school? What about the marines? How are their competition slots? I dont mean to talk about this in the wrong SA area, since topic is already in the middle of the jam I thought I would ask
Also - alot of people just assume this because I am a new person and appear uneducated on this topic, but I am actually passionate about the AF and have wanted to do this for a long time. THis combines both my interests so naturally i am eager to take thisup. I pay my debts and am not a scholarship freeloader
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Nobody assume that because you are a new poster that you are uneducated.

What is throwing them for a loop, or at least me, is how you post.

I am passionate about the AF, but you throw in things like the Marines, and do not realize that they are part of the Navy. Or how your first post was about the Army on USAFA forum.
~ I get not knowing a medic is an enlisted position.

I pay my debts, and am not a scholarship freeloader? Huh? What? Where did that come from? Not one poster ever said or implied you were.

More importantly if you are in college, than why have you not visited the ROTC units on campus?

I am not a poster that typically asks for a posters background, but every post you write leaves me with trying to decide if you are 1 of the followin
1. 14 years old
2. International student
3. Troll

I apologize if that last statement offends you, but I just can't figure you out. I am sure within your next few responses I will get a grasp of your background.
 
FalconsRock said:
Thanks Hornetguy, again, great information. I was not aware that so many people went that route for pre-med. Did you end up in med school?
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I declined medical school and went to grad school instead. I'm a happy civilian now - kind of feel like a dodged a bullet with a long service commitment! hehe.

jamestribe said:
Hello, this is what I mean - Is AFA the only academy that has the potential to produce doctors? I know they offer courses like biology and chemistry to make the pre-med reqs, but does the USNA for example also offer the same capacities of getting all the premed requirements in to go to med school?
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AFA produces the most doctors of the 5 academies (pretty sure on this). Speculation beyond that is hard to say. Med school from any source is highly competitive and very difficult. A lot of people enter university thinking they have the right stuff but just can't measure up. That's why going to an SA for medicine is a BAD BAD BAD plan if you aren't also ok with ending up in another non-medical field in the military if things don't go as planned.
 
jamestribe said:
Hello, this is what I mean - Is AFA the only academy that has the potential to produce doctors? I know they offer courses like biology and chemistry to make the pre-med reqs, but does the USNA for example also offer the same capacities of getting all the premed requirements in to go to med school?
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AFA produces the most doctors of the 5 academies (pretty sure on this). Speculation beyond that is hard to say. Med school from any source is highly competitive and very difficult. A lot of people enter university thinking they have the right stuff but just can't measure up. That's why going to an SA for medicine is a BAD BAD BAD plan if you aren't also ok with ending up in another non-medical field in the military if things don't go as planned.[/QUOTE]

Can we all say:
SERVICE BEFORE SELF?
 
Okay, first I have to say I do not agree with all the aggressiveness. Yes, he does seem a little unfamiliar with military structure but that's why we are here right? I'm not saying we have to write long winded explanations but I am completely fine with pointing interested parties in the right direction to do their own research without giving them a hard time. If you don't think you are giving them a hard time then looking at Jamestibe's responses clearly shows that they are sensing some animosity from the posters of this forum. If they are 14, then I remember being 14 and super excited about my future and asking questions left and right and gathering as much info as possible. If they are an international student then hopefully we sent him down the right path. If he is a troll, then hopefully the info posted here will help the lurkers of this forum!

Yes, Service Before Self is one of the core values of the AF and no doubt a very important one, but that doesn't mean students need abandon any form of ambition!! If someone wants to pursue a medical profession in the military then they have full rights to do so and in no way do I look down upon them. Heck, if students weren't inclined to believe that hard work would get you where you wanted to go then no one would work hard, what would be the point? That is not the type of organization I want to be a part of. Service Before Self comes into play when the individual is completely dead set on one path and doesn't consider any other options whatsoever or is bitter because he was funneled into the wrong job/base. It's about accepting that you are going to be deployed for six months through the holidays away from your family, it is understanding that shift work might make it impossible to be there for your daughter's birthday party.

I firmly believe that serving in any capacity is an honor. I know that I personally would like to go to grad school, and be an operations analyst for the AF. I've been working my tail off for the last 3 years to make that happen. Would I be disappointed if I wasn't selected? OF COURSE. There is no way around that. The key would be to not stay disappointed for long, and instead attack new challenges head on, maybe looking for other avenues of getting where I would like to go (applying for an AFSC reclass). In my mind there is nothing wrong with pursuing a different AFSC or base or assignment as long as one does not neglect the duties of their current position.

I get that some of the members of this forum have been here for a long time and have seen it all and maybe these types of threads are a little tedious. The advice you give is undoubtedly invaluable, I just wish we could all be a little bit more friendly.

This isn't Baseops =P
 
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Oops, I forgot to address the "flexible AFSC" question. That is a loose term which probably refers to an AFSC which is not critically manned.

The AF calls critically manned fields "stressed". Here's a couple articles which talk about them:

From Feb 10th about current stressed career fields
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/02/10/air-force-stressed-career-fields/23167053/

No date on this one, so I'm guessing these are the career fields which are historically stressed
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blafstressedofficer.htm

The list changes every year for obvious reasons. A "flexible AFSC" would be one that is not on the stressed list, not critically manned such that you would be allowed to reclass into a medical position.
 
AFrpaso said:
Oops, I forgot to address the "flexible AFSC" question. That is a loose term which probably refers to an AFSC which is not critically manned.

The AF calls critically manned fields "stressed". Here's a couple articles which talk about them:

From Feb 10th about current stressed career fields
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/02/10/air-force-stressed-career-fields/23167053/

No date on this one, so I'm guessing these are the career fields which are historically stressed
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blafstressedofficer.htm

The list changes every year for obvious reasons. A "flexible AFSC" would be one that is not on the stressed list, not critically manned such that you would be allowed to reclass into a medical position.
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Thank you, very helpful information in both articles. Good luck to you and I hope you get the job you desire.
 
James, I am with PIMA... something just isn't adding up here. Come clean, be straight with us, and we will be totally straight with you.
 
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Why be so confrontational? It's unnecessary.

Yea, more information would allow us to give better advice.

As far as I'm concerned, the questions have been answered.
 
fencersmother said:
Hardly confrontational...

We can't really help him if we don't know more.
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I apologize, I must have read into the post the wrong way. It is so easy for that to happen in intenet conversation.
 
Everything mentioned by Hornet and paso are pretty much the same for USNA. Usually somewhere around 10-15 year go Medical Corps. Also, 1-2/year are selected for Medical Corps, but do not get into a Med School. I was thinking about this the other day; everyone I can think of who really wanted to Medical Corps and met all the requirements got it. I know just as many Navy docs and dentists who went to the fleet first and then transferred to Medical Corps. They all really enjoy it. For those thinking of taking this path, that is fine as long as you are willing to serve in your respective service and not be a doc. The chances are much higher this will happen as opposed to Medical School. Also realize you have much less control over your future specialty. Just because you want to be a heart surgeon doesn't mean the military will have a spot for you. Also know that even if you are a Pediatrician or something else you could go serve as a Battalion doc or Ship doc. Its all about the needs of the service. Also, there are no Marine Corps doctors or Medical Corps. The USMC gets all its docs from the Navy. The are attached to the units like any other support personnel and work side by side with us. Remember the USMC is a part of the Dept of the Navy and we draw all of our docs and Chaplains from the Navy. You will hear us call our Corpsman Devil Docs.
 
I agree it easy to not read intonation in any internet forum.

The thing is, even if this came off harsh, it is something every candidate that wants a life in the military needs to get used to if they want to survive.

The AF rated world is known to eat their young. IFS and UPT is not about coddling. It is basically being told on a daily basis you are the worse class ever!

There are some very funny videos on Youtube regarding what occurs on the bus ride on I Day.
~ The year before fencers twins went to USAFA. A cadet on an internet forum was blustering about how he was better than any female, and they wouldn't break him. The trainers made it their business to find out this guys name, and all you see is a female instructor in his face, basically asking him if he has a new opinion of what he thought.
~ There was also a cadet that was known as Moonboy. He had an attitude, and no problem posting all over social media.
~~ This site in the end just ignored him.

The thing is, if we didn't care we would just ignore him and let him fend for himself. We are not doing that. We are still here communicating with him, trying to assist as much as we can.

Are we being harsh? Maybe. Will our blunt posts help him? IMPO, yes!
~ Nominations in many states are competitive, including the interview process. Walking this gauntlet with us peppering questions, can make them stronger during the interview process. He will be ready to answer that question from left field. He will be able to walk in with confidence because he was peppered with questions here.
~~ They will be also interviewed by an ALO, and plan B ROTC PMS.

I also laughed at Hornets response about baseops.net and it illustrates how the readers can perceive it differently than what the poster intended. I do not know what his intention was, but the way I read it was:
Yea, this site is cookies and milk, and puppies. Baseop is real AF.
~ I only lurk on baseops.net I would never ever post there. I think this tread would have lasted for a day, and no advice would ever be given. Instead after the 1st post he would have had every response belittling him for not knowing that medics are enlisted and the AF is not the Army.

Jamestribe,
If in anyway I have made you feel belittled, than I apologize. However, if this is the life you want, the only way IMPO that you can survive the process to commissioning is stepping up and defending yourself when you are attacked by strangers. If a stranger can make you run away, than this is probably not the life for you.

This is also true for college and life. Profs are not HS teachers. They will not hold anything back.

If you want the soft touch only, than may I ask, how does that help you in the future when you face reality? I will gladly give you the soft touch, but I will also know that by doing so, you only delayed your emotional/mental growth. Your choice.
 
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NavyHoops said:
Everything mentioned by Hornet and paso are pretty much the same for USNA. Usually somewhere around 10-15 year go Medical Corps. Also, 1-2/year are selected for Medical Corps, but do not get into a Med School. I was thinking about this the other day; everyone I can think of who really wanted to Medical Corps and met all the requirements got it. I know just as many Navy docs and dentists who went to the fleet first and then transferred to Medical Corps. They all really enjoy it. For those thinking of taking this path, that is fine as long as you are willing to serve in your respective service and not be a doc. The chances are much higher this will happen as opposed to Medical School. Also realize you have much less control over your future specialty. Just because you want to be a heart surgeon doesn't mean the military will have a spot for you. Also know that even if you are a Pediatrician or something else you could go serve as a Battalion doc or Ship doc. Its all about the needs of the service. Also, there are no Marine Corps doctors or Medical Corps. The USMC gets all its docs from the Navy. The are attached to the units like any other support personnel and work side by side with us. Remember the USMC is a part of the Dept of the Navy and we draw all of our docs and Chaplains from the Navy. You will hear us call our Corpsman Devil Docs.
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Can we all just keep repeating from here on out....

SERVICE BEFORE SELF
 
YEs hello,

I am in high school junior and will apply for scholarships right now. In the fall i will go for the service academies. Im ok with being soldier because apprently that is what MAY happen if I go my path, but I want to become a medic in the air force. Or a medical career in the navy. Do I know what im going to do yet? No. Not really.
This is why i am here - to seek guidance and then pick which path I want to go. I thought about attending the SA's because they are very high level and prestigious, but i get trashed around and everyone saying im a troll... and that SA is not the best bet to choose... ok jose
I guess ill go ROTC college -> civ med school -> armed force commitment
sorry if i appear upset im not, but thank you everyone for posting (really) it means alot to me that people are here to help
 
Pima, I understand where you're coming from and I've experienced it in the active duty world.

I'll send you a PM so we can talk about this offline. I think this thread is ready to be done.

Jamestribe, good luck and be prepared to encounter the type of situations Pima talked about.
 
jamestribe said:
YEs hello,

I am in high school junior and will apply for scholarships right now. In the fall i will go for the service academies. Im ok with being soldier because apprently that is what MAY happen if I go my path, but I want to become a medic in the air force. Or a medical career in the navy. Do I know what im going to do yet? No. Not really.
This is why i am here - to seek guidance and then pick which path I want to go. I thought about attending the SA's because they are very high level and prestigious, but i get trashed around and everyone saying im a troll... and that SA is not the best bet to choose... ok jose
I guess ill go ROTC college -> civ med school -> armed force commitment
sorry if i appear upset im not, but thank you everyone for posting (really) it means alot to me that people are here to help
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Some corrections and advice for research.
1) In the Air Force, members are called Airmen. Army says soldiers.
2) Medics in the Air Force are enlisted. Medical Corps includes officers who are doctors, nurses, physicians assistants, and dentists (along with non-professional medical careers). If you mean you want to be a doctor in the Air Force, say that.
3) Going to an SA is a risky way to become a doctor - if you don't make the cut, you will be doing something else for quite awhile. Not so with the other commissioning options.

Time to beef up your understanding of the services. Go to http://airforce.com to read up on careers, joining, and other information about the Air Force. Better to understand a bit more about the service given your desires. I wasn't super informed about the AF before going to USAFA, but I wanted to be a pilot and it was pretty likely by the odds that I would be. It wasn't until the last min that I was medically DQ'd. You want to become a doctor in the AF - that's super hard and you need to know what happens if you don't make it.
 
jamestribe said:
YEs hello,

I am in high school junior and will apply for scholarships right now. In the fall i will go for the service academies. Im ok with being soldier because apprently that is what MAY happen if I go my path, but I want to become a medic in the air force. Or a medical career in the navy. Do I know what im going to do yet? No. Not really.
This is why i am here - to seek guidance and then pick which path I want to go. I thought about attending the SA's because they are very high level and prestigious, but i get trashed around and everyone saying im a troll... and that SA is not the best bet to choose... ok jose
I guess ill go ROTC college -> civ med school -> armed force commitment
sorry if i appear upset im not, but thank you everyone for posting (really) it means alot to me that people are here to help
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Please note the bold.

AFROTC is not I walk on and 4 years later I commission. It is 2 years later I will meet a board, and if not selected it is usually buh-bye. Get a USAFA appointment and 4 years later you probably will commission.
~ Attrition rate at USAFA as a cadet is much lower than AFROTC.
~~ When I say much, I mean USAFA retention is @80%, AFROTC closer to 30%. There are a lot of reasons why it is so much lower, but still that is around the rate.

Okay, I believe you are not a troll, BUT your latest posts illustrates that you have yet to grasp how competitive this process will be as a senior in HS.

1. I am assuming your posts here are the typical 17 yr. old use to social media by the way you write. Or maybe it is you are using your phone to post
~ Want to be taken seriously, than post that way.
~~ 1st impressions matter. Please re-read your last post...I am in high school junior.
~~~~That sends red flags up to many of us from a grammatical aspect. Not trying to offend, just comparing you to other 17 year old posters.
2. Armed force commitment
~ It is a commitment, but as hornetguy replied, it appears you have yet to understand the difference between branches.
3. Your posts continue to illustrate that you have yet to take the advice from many posters.
~ This thread probably has the most blue links I have ever seen regarding researching either the SA or ROTC.


IMPO, by this time this thread should have moved by you to the okay... can you chance me, or if X happens what is the next step. Yet, I feel we are still spoon feeding you at this point just on the basics regarding the simplest aspects.
 
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Jamestribe, there are many different paths to get to your goal. As long as you go in with open eyes, know all your options with the understanding the needs of the military come first, then you will be making an informed decision. IMO, you apply to all and then make your decision when the time comes, by next April you may decide something different. I know that the AFA and ROTC applications are open right now. I am unfamiliar with the other SAs as my DD is only interested in AF (for shame :p), but you should be starting your applications now if you will be a senior in the fall. Not many 17/18 year olds know what they want to do with their lives, heck, my DD changes her mind every 6 weeks, but if you don't apply, you can't get in.

I took a path different from any mentioned here. I enlisted first in the Navy as a Corpsman and loved my job for the most part, but there were some I had that had nothing really to do with medical. I did my best and gave 110% at those jobs because I had a plan and I wanted more. I went to school at night whenever I could and then applied for the MECP (Medical Enlisted Commissioning Program). I did not get selected until the third year I applied. At my 10 year mark I went to nursing school on the Navy's dime and was commissioned in the Nurse Corps with a 4 year payback. I later earned a Masters as an FNP via DUINS (Duty Under Instruction) where the Navy paid my salary and tuition in exchange for a 2 year obligation and retired after 20 years. It was not a direct route, but it got me to my goal. The Navy was very good to me and it was an honor to serve.

My husband also took a different route. He took pre-med at a civilian college on his dime and while there, he decided not to pursue medicine but earned a Masters in Spanish instead (even he did not know what he wanted to do). It was not until later, at 27, he decided to go to medical school via HPSP. Upon graduation he was commissioned as a LT in the Navy Medical Corps and retired after 28 years.

So, as you can see, many different paths to your goal and the good thing is you don't have to choose today, but if SA or ROTC is in your sights, apply now as well as your plans B, C, D and make your decision later. This forum is not only for those wanting to attend an SA, but also for those who are unsure and perhaps will decide it is not for them. Good luck to you!
 
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