USMA vs USNA

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by gigamegaultra, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. gigamegaultra

    gigamegaultra New Member

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    Naval academy is a lot more popular.Facebook page likes,threads here at forums and ultimately the number of aplicants every year suggest that.
    Why?Is it because WP is harder?It seems to me(Mr. graduation percentage thinks the same).But than are the WP graduates tougher?
    West Point has a lot better ranking on Forbes college list?Why?

    Before this next sentence which expresses my opinion in whole i want to make clear that i am not comparing army with navy but only the academies,their four year experiance and results of it and lets say that I absolutely do not care wheater i would work on ground or on a ship.I think Annapolis is a lighter version of West Point and i dont want to be a lighter version officer thats why my first choice is USMA.

    And finnaly the reason why i posted this here is because i want opinions from more wiser and experianced people about my opinion.Am i wrong,illogical?
     
  2. Jeff62064

    Jeff62064 Member

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    i want opinions from more wiser and experianced people about my opinion.Am i wrong,illogical?[/QUOTE]

    Flattery will get you everywhere. It is because West Point is better, but I think I am biased due to my DS on his way. Read the threads, but make your decision base on where you want to be 15 years from now as an officer.
     
  3. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

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    In my naive opinion, I don't think either is "better." They are both service academies prepping their mids/cadets to be military officers, but the Navy and Army are pretty different, so I don't think it would be right if both academies did the exact same thing. Sure, West Point seems to generally do more down in the dirt type activities from what I've seen (if that's what you mean by tougher?), but again, their missions (preparing Army vs. Naval officers) differ.

    I don't really think you should base too much off of Facebook likes and Forbes college rankings.
     
  4. davidhwang

    davidhwang Member

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    like I said on previous posts, it's possibly due to the fact the WP graduates will be the first to be called to be sent to a combat/war zone. I mean, what are the ACTUAL chances of naval officers receiving direct fire from the enemy? We are no longer in WWII or Cold War. This is the 21st century. Chances are, naval and air force officers will have lesser chance of dying in combat.

    I mean sure, serving in the armed forces is really awesome. But I am also sure that people (especially the family) do care about their safety. What's the most safest way to serve? It's probably be in the navy or air force route.

    Brave people wants to fight for their country, but not necessarily want to die for their country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  5. 1984USNA

    1984USNA Member

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    I think we can settle this simply by looking at the football records and especially Army Navy contests. Kidding. It doesn't matter how many diverse opinions you get here regarding the best academy. All that matters is what you want to do when you grow up. Once you decide, one academy will make more sense than the other. Both are great schools. Both will not yield the same kind of officer. They are not meant to.


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  6. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Agree with '84. The end state is to produce Naval Officers and Army Officers. Two different missions. Neither school is better. Two separate missions, two services. I selected Marine Corps out of USNA, the majority of the training I focused on was field based. Probably much more in line with what West Point training is. With that being said, is being a Naval Officer "easier" than being an Army Officer. Sure, sometimes, sometimes not. 6-8 months at sea going in figure eights, little to no sleep gets old. Duty every 5-7 days when you are in port, that reallly sucks. For some they love it. Year long deployments being shot at, yeah that sucks. I have done both of these things. I would take the ground any day over being on ship. Yeah to the majority of people being on a ship probably seems "easier." Its not in any way. It gets old, tiring, mind numbing, and is taxing mentally and physically. Its just in a different way than what you do in the field. Being on a bridge while going in and out of a busy port was probably one of the most stressful and exciting things I ever seen in my life (and I have been shot at plenty and launched off of an aircraft carrier).

    I had a total of 4 exchance cadets as either room mates or next door neighbors. 2 Air Force and 2 West Point. I had two extremely close friends who were exchange Mids at USAFA and the other at CGA. My buddy who went to USAFA thought the whole semester was great. He said academically and militarily it was easier to him than at USNA. My buddy at CGA enjoyed his semester, said academics and military rigor were on par with Navy. He said CGA cadets had to do alot more there though in regards to cleaning common spaces, etc.

    West Point exchange cadets all thought the military rigor was less at Navy, but academics were harder for them. They also thought West Point focuses more on physical activites than Navy. From what I have seen at Navy, I think they stress the physical aspects more now, than when I was there. Air Force all thought the academics were on par, but much more military rigor and less privledges.

    These are just 4 opinions and they are just that... opinions. Does that make either school better? No. They are different, which is good.
     
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Not bothering to take sides in the debate but you seem to forget than the Marine Corps is part of the Navy and a percentage of USNA grads go to the corps. You also seem to discount the situation in East Asia where DoD talks about Air/Sea battle as no one in their right mind would put troops ashore in mainland East Asia.
     
  8. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    Ahh, Kinnem, I know what you meant - "part of the Naval Service" but, as I'm sure your son will tell you, Marines are quite sensitive about the verbiage. :biggrin:
     
  9. SpikeGamer2018

    SpikeGamer2018 Member

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    Don't also forget the USNA grads that become Navy officers, then successfully become Naval Special Warfare officers, and take part in various direct fire combat situations and are in combat zones.






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  10. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    You don't join to die, you join to serve. Shouldn't put a condition for your service. I hear it all the time, I want to serve my country by becoming a naval aviator after Naval Academy . If i don't get into Naval Academy, I am going to a civilian college.
     
  11. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    "I mean, what are the ACTUAL chances of naval officers receiving direct fire from the enemy? We are no longer in WWII or Cold War. This is the 21st century. Chances are, naval and air force officers will have lesser chance of dying in combat."

    I find the cluelessness of youth so...so...so... refreshing. Within 24 months of graduation from USNA I found myself OFF my destroyer and wading through the mud of Vietnam with an M-16 as a part of the Riverine Forces. In that time I experienced plenty of personal and direct fire, body bags, ambushes, and mortar fire. Mr. Wang, you have no idea what is in store for you when you serve at the pleasure of the president. I wish you luck in your path because sometimes that is all you have.
     
  12. davidhwang

    davidhwang Member

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    I apologize if you've misunderstood my post, but let's try to not get defensive here, I think any academy school is a great school. My post meant no disrespect to anyone by any means.

    I am a junior military historian, and I study military history for fun on my own time. I have plenty of knowledge of military history already and I could say I have pretty good understanding of the changing mechanics of warfare throughout history. I already know about naval operations during the Vietnam War, especially the river patrols of the Mekong Delta, one of the most deadliest areas in South Vietnam at the time, crawling with enemies. I am not clueless about the military, and my uncle was the ROK Vietnam veteran, a Captain.

    In post WWII world, the United States was actively, and aggressively sought to stop Soviet expansions. It was very likely that America would be involved in yet another armed conflict (i.e. Korea and Vietnam). Any academy students, regardless of USMA or USNA or whatever, would know its potential call into combat zone during the Cold War.

    In 21st century, we have so much information that can be obtained in a matter of seconds. The world leaders can no longer act as openly as they could have many decades ago. We are no longer firing our weapons at the unseen enemies in the jungles, or by river banks, or in the forests. Our current military now possesses the capability to assassinate or take out the enemy with an unmanned drones, or annihilate their base camps from miles away, safe from anti-air missiles. In addition, the United States is fighting a new kind of warfare since September 11: counter-terrorism.

    You can call me naive and clueless, sure whatever, but I do have the general idea of what 21st century warfare will look like in the coming decades. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan for example, did the terrorists carry stinger missiles or SAMS that shot down multiple US warplanes or helicopters? Our enemy doesn't stand a chance against our military, and honestly, ships will be far away from direct fire/combat and our jet planes would be far out of range of terrorists' anti-air missiles, if they even have one, that is.


    Now, to my defense of the post, I was addressing those who specifically wanted to join the Navy or the Air Force, not the Marine Corps or Special Operations (I mean thats mad respect, and that's good for them, it's their choice). And Im NOT JUST saying people go to other academies just cuz they fear of being sent to a war zone. It just one part of the equation of each and every candidate's decision. And yeah, most reasons is their branch preferences... they like being on ships, planes, or in tanks, job networks in the civilian world, etc.

    But I am just saying there are really people out there who do choose to go to the school because of non USMA school is considered "safer" from being sent to current wars (as a secondary reason why they chose to go to the school they wanted to go). But who knows, WWIII might happen. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Idk, could happen, then Im really wrong. I may not know the future of coming wars, but I can guess how wars would be fought in this decade.

    Anyways, I apologize if I sounded stupid or clueless or not being clear about my position, but I do want you guys to understand why I made that statement.

    Actually, I am clueless and young, so just disregard my statement as if nothing ever happened. My apologies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  13. gigamegaultra

    gigamegaultra New Member

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    I am sorry but i just can‘t settle with those "can't compare these two academies" answers.
    Yes the one is Naval the other is Military but why can't they be compared?Is it easier to compare USMA with USNA or lets say USNA with Harvard?
    I mean they even got a LOT of same majors.I think it is just a way of avoiding to answer.
     
  14. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    If so what are we comparing for - food, social life, life style, career prospect . . . .

    Many things can be easily compared. But we can't compare two academies for someone if we don't know what he or she wants.
     
  15. FlyBoy1993

    FlyBoy1993 Member

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    Granted, they are far fewer in number versus their Army counterparts, but the Marine Opts come from Annapolis, right?

    If you're using that as a qualifier, Navy has their share too.

    #jarhead father of WP Cadet#didn't have combat MOS so my service doesn't count
     
  16. gigamegaultra

    gigamegaultra New Member

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    Yes,exactly: food,social life life style,career prospect and every other thing that can be compared.
     
  17. Iowa 73

    Iowa 73 Miner

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    If you want to attend either academy I would suggest working on your grammar and spelling.
     
  18. Craig

    Craig Member

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    I would classify the attack on the USS Cole as direct fire


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  19. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    The reason no one is giving a definitive answer is there isn't one. These are all opinions. If you want to serve as an Army Officer, then go to USMA. Do not go to a SA because one school is "better" than another. You go to become an officer in that service. The SAs all provide a unique experience and can vary for each Cadet/Midshipman. It depends on their class, the current environment of the world, the leadership at the school all the way down to Company/TAC Officers, instructors you encounter, and most importantly what each person puts into the effort. If you want to skate through, do the minimum and graduate... you probably can. If you want to challenge yourself, take the opportunity for what its worth and truly prepare to be an officer, then it will be harder, but in my opinion better experience.

    These are my opinions only... from one person who graduated not yesterday, but not a million years ago. I served pre-9/11 and post 9/11. I am a female, former Marine Corps Officer who played basketball at USNA. I had two years of forward deployed time in the Middle East and a year in Okinawa. I am a civilian today and use my USNA and USMC lessons daily at work...

    Food, who knows. I never ate USMA. I think USNA has stepped up their food from what I can see. I think some of the recent CVW folks said Navy was better. Don't think you will starve anywhere and seriously, no SA is going to win culinary awards, but it isn't that bad.

    Academcially... I think they are all on par. West Point had alot more majors when I was at USNA. USNA has increased its majors since I graduated. I guess the key question is, does one have a major you want? The great part of Navy being close to major areas is their proximity to great universities like John Hopkins, GTown, GWU, etc. VGEP opportunities, seminars, etc are right at your door step. In my experience I think USAF and USN encourage education for their officers more than the Army and USMC. As numbers continue to drop in the services, promotions will tie to advanced degrees more and more. My friends who service selected Navy I think had a lot more post grad ops than we did in the USMC during our careers. That is just my opinion. The Army is a bigger service therefore their opportunities are larger and more diverse. That has pros and cons. All services and even each branch, communities, platform, etc have their own unique personalities and traditions. Its important to understand those because that is what is important when selecting a school, branch, service, platform, MOS, etc.

    Lifestyle... this one is completely subjective. I would take USNA any day. Campus is closer to civilization. But West Point is close, yet so far away, from NYC. Navy is close to Washington DC and Baltimore. Navy seems to have more of a "personality". West Point seems more serious to me. AFA is known to be the most relaxed of all the SAs. Doesn't mean Navy doesn't take things seriously, its a pesonality thing. I think the "work hard, play mentality" fits well for Navy. I think USMA stresses physical fitness more than Navy. But, I do not think USNA PT standards are a joke in anyway. They are much harder than the Navy fleet standards. They are different than the USMC's.

    Networking post military I think is on par at either school. I have lived in a large city in my post military life and one medium city. The large city had a huge alumni network that was very active. It was a ton of fun with a range of class years. We even created a program for our just graduated alumni who were released from the Navy to help with jobs, interviews, resumes, etc. We often did things with West Point Alumni Assoc and I got the feeling they had a similiar Assoc, except they rarely saw football victories at their viewing parties! Joking! When I moved, the first thing I did was email the local president. He immediately called me, sent me links to a real estate agent who was an alumni, and sent me a list of my classmates in the area. There are less events, but I know I could pick up the phone for anything and they would be there to support or help me find the needed support. Once again, you put the effort in to attend events, meet people, volunteer, you will have a better network, then just signing up. I think alot of Alumni groups tend to be more heavily older year groups, but I know USNA has really stressed trying to bring in younger members. I think that both groups I have been involved with have done a great job integrating all class years.

    As far as the whole getting shot at thing... Not sure what you want to hear. Yes, Army and Marine Officers have a better shot at being forward deployed on the ground to hositle environments. This also varies greatly with Branch, MOS, assigned unit, etc. With the current wars and the length of them in two countries, the gaps are being filled by Navy and Air Force Officers on alot of staffs and other billets. I have seen plenty of Navy Supply, Intel, SWO, Subs, HR, etc be sent to forward billets. Yes, by the numbers the Army has had more forward deployed, but don't discount the efforts by the other services. The wars we have faced since 9/11 have not exactly matched anything in history. Just because ships and fighters/cargo/support aircraft haven't been facing SAMs or other threats, doesn't mean the next war won't. The Navy faces threats daily dealing with piracy, boarding parties, and just plain navigating waters (this is more dangerous than anyone thinks). The next war could have a huge air threat. You never know. So understanding the history is great, but be prepared for our next wars to have its own unique challenges. This is where thinking on your feet, thinking "outside the box", and learning as much as possible is important.

    As the wars wind down and reset the force, the Navy will still be forward deployed as will the other Services. They Navy will still see 6 month deployments. The Army still has overseas missions such as Korea. The USMC will focus on returning to its Naval roots. The USMC with its MEUs will always be at the ready for things like Haiti and the Navy sent a great deal of support to the Hurricane efforts last year. The missions will range for all services from peacekeeping, humanitarian, to possible full scale war. But with wars ending, so are large budgets and forces. These will create new challenges.

    Like we have all said, all these items are subjective. Just like when people on this forum say its important to visit each place if possible, its because all these items are so subjective and vary for each person. Don't just look at all the "cool" things, the intangibles like personality, traditions, and other nuances are critical to your happiness and success in whatever path you choose.
     
  20. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Navyhoops best summarized it as to pick a service. So you compare all this things than what? Unfortunately, your life is not not like a math equation. So Navy is close to civilization, but what if you don't get passes or have money to enjoy it? What if West Point has an academic major you want and Navy doesn't.

    Many things in life are subjective, as much as you want to make the decision objective, you can't.
     

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