USMAPS, USNA or ROTC scholarship?

[Zaphod]

One of the things she heard was "2.0 good to go". That is settling for mediocrity and something that doesn't appeal to her.

"2.0 and go. 1.8 and wait." - The battle cry of ANY Midshipman or Cadet.

Does this mean they don't TRY to shoot for 4.0? No, but it doesn't change the fact that the ultimate goal is to GRADUATE. The rest is gravy.

A word of warning: Wanting to excel is fine and expected. However, judging your classmates harshly because some have their eye on graduating first, exceling second, is a recipe for being tagged as a snob. Everyone goes in wanting to excel. Some do and some just pass, but in the end, they all leave together.

I guess all of this discussion is pointless. I can see that the majority of you think she should suck it up and go for it even though it wasn't her ideal situation. She wants nothing more than to work her but off and become a soldier.

If she wants nothing more than to become a soldier, then I fail to see how USMAPS is a bad thing. I don't mean to sound harsh, but your description of her is making me wonder if she's a bit spoiled. She wants West Point NOW, and that's IT! Well, West Point DOESN'T want her now, but will certainly take her next year. If she wants to be a soldier that bad, then what's the problem?

On a side note, she has been in JROTC for four years, worn a uniform several times a week for those years, understands ranks, chain of command and what is expected. She has won area awards for IDD, orienteering, gone to national JROTC symposiums, qualified for the National Junior Olympics two years in a row in marksmanship and the biggest honor this year was receiving the Army JROTC Legion of award this year (25 this year nationwide). She lives off of this stuff! I in no way am saying that JROTC is the same as an academy because it is not. I also know that this is something you don't announce at an academy because the majority of people think it is a dumb program.

Or because so many of them will simply reply, "So? I did all that, too. What's your point?"

 

[mom3boys]

One thing that I am confused about: I think you mentioned she didn't contact coaches...if she is an excellent marksperson, she may help her situation by contacting the coaching staff....she may end up at USMA yet. If she likes to shoot, please note there is MUCH more shooting at USMA than at USNA. ...unless you are on a shooting team. For what it's worth, it just seems to this outsider that she is settling.

 

[oneandfive]

Keep in mind - USMAPS is not just comprised of high schools students. There are a number of soldiers who have been out of high school for a couple of years. There also will undoubtedly be some who are combat veterans. When she meets these Cadet Candidates she will be in awe.
These soldiers who have been away from academics need to adjust. For them the 2.0 will not always be easy - not because of a lack of intelligence.

I had pretty much figured your daughter was in a great JROTC program in high school - kudos to them! Has she ever stood for a Saturday AM Inspection of her room?
Ahhhhhh - have no fear! She will still have much to learn.
I think it was last year that the First Captain at West Point was a USMAPS grad.

Good point Just A Mom about the incoming soldiers. That is something to truly respect. When she gets home this weekend I'm going to let her read this BIG, LONG DISCUSSION (even though she will probably be mad at me for sharing so much). You're all really great, and very intelligent. Thank you for your well thought out information.

 

[Zaphod]

For what it's worth, it just seems to this outsider that she is settling.

Not so much settling, IMO, as choosing what she thinks will be more prestigious rather than what will lead to what she wants. BAD WAY TO MAKE DECISIONS.

I hope I'm wrong!

My recommendation in all this continues to be for her to accept USMAPS and follow the original dream. DO IT!

 

[WAMom68]

I am thankful to all of you and your messages, but right now I feel like an outcast! Please don't think we are ungrateful idiots.

No, no, no - you are not an outcast! We are just trying to make clear that she needs to think about what she wants after the academy and then make the decision on how to get there.

As much as I would like her to go Army (can't tell I am biased ) I can understand if she decided Navy is for her. What I would hate to see is that she chooses Navy ONLY because she can go directly to the academy and not have to do that extra year.

As others have said, you are not the only ones in this situation. In fact a young man that graduated with my son applied to USAFA and USMA, with USAFA as his first choice. He was offered a direct appointment to USMA and prep school for USAFA. He choose the direct appointment at USMA. My son was concerned that he would not do well because it seemed he was "settling" for USMA. My son has crossed paths with this young man several times this year at USMA and he is doing great and seems to enjoy being there. Obviously he decided that this was the route for him and committed to it fully.

Good luck to your daughter which ever she chooses and God bless her for serving.

 

[oneandfive]

One thing that I am confused about: I think you mentioned she didn't contact coaches...if she is an excellent marksperson, she may help her situation by contacting the coaching staff....she may end up at USMA yet. If she likes to shoot, please note there is MUCH more shooting at USMA than at USNA. ...unless you are on a shooting team. For what it's worth, it just seems to this outsider that she is settling.

We are well aware of the outstanding marksmanship team at USMA. However, we have looked at their scores and they are more than AWESOME! Even though my daughter is very good nationally, we didn't think she was quite at the same level to be considered for recruitment.

 

[jamzmom]

I guess all of this discussion is pointless. I can see that the majority of you think she should suck it up and go for it even though it wasn't her ideal situation.

Aw, no way. This is good discussion as so many others might be in your daughter's same position & it could give them comfort to know of it as they struggle with their decisions. I think we all here just kinda picked up on you saying that WP was your daughters first choice. Just showing concern that she might be trading one second choice (the Prep school) for another (USNA). Now don't get me wrong.... I LOVE NAVY & I'd say grab it baby!!! If she was all about Army, how do you feel in your heart of hearts that she will do going Navy with a direct appointment?

I don't think the JROTC kids get hammered too badly. Lots of them there. They tend to help alot from what I've heard. Showing kids how to duct tape their corners down on their racks, march, snap & pop a corner, ect. Most often times, they are alittle ahead & get put into squad positions & such.

 

[Zaphod]

We are well aware of the outstanding marksmanship team at USMA. However, we have looked at their scores and they are more than AWESOME! Even though my daughter is very good nationally, we didn't think she was quite at the same level to be considered for recruitment.

They weren't born that way. They may very well have learned to shoot that well while at USMA.

It can't hurt to ask.

 

[oneandfive]

"2.0 and go. 1.8 and wait." - The battle cry of ANY Midshipman or Cadet.

Does this mean they don't TRY to shoot for 4.0? No, but it doesn't change the fact that the ultimate goal is to GRADUATE. The rest is gravy.

A word of warning: Wanting to excel is fine and expected. However, judging your classmates harshly because some have their eye on graduating first, exceling second, is a recipe for being tagged as a snob. Everyone goes in wanting to excel. Some do and some just pass, but in the end, they all leave together.



If she wants nothing more than to become a soldier, then I fail to see how USMAPS is a bad thing. I don't mean to sound harsh, but your description of her is making me wonder if she's a bit spoiled. She wants West Point NOW, and that's IT! Well, West Point DOESN'T want her now, but will certainly take her next year. If she wants to be a soldier that bad, then what's the problem?



Or because so many of them will simply reply, "So? I did all that, too. What's your point?"

My point ZAPHOD was left off of your quote. I just was basically saying she was "ready for the next step". Also, please don't think she is a snob or stuck up. She has had a part time job working at least 20hours a week since her 10th grade year (including the school year) while she has been doing all of the extra-curriculars. She has done this to help our family financially. We come from a very abusive past situation and she has done nothing but rise above it, overcome it and get past it (not to mention, I am the one and the other five are my daughters, she being the oldest and the one who has taken on the most responsibility of them). In my eyes, she deserves everything she has EARNED so far!

 

[jamzmom]

A good coach can take a kid a long way! Son was 10th at Navy Nationals but doesn't shoot at the academy. They did away with their precision rifle team. Dang it. I still have no sport to root for after 3 years. Make her join up so you can root for something!

 

[oneandfive]

Aw, no way. This is good discussion as so many others might be in your daughter's same position & it could give them comfort to know of it as they struggle with their decisions. I think we all here just kinda picked up on you saying that WP was your daughters first choice. Just showing concern that she might be trading one second choice (the Prep school) for another (USNA). Now don't get me wrong.... I LOVE NAVY & I'd say grab it baby!!! If she was all about Army, how do you feel in your heart of hearts that she will do going Navy with a direct appointment?

I don't think the JROTC kids get hammered too badly. Lots of them there. They tend to help alot from what I've heard. Showing kids how to duct tape their corners down on their racks, march, snap & pop a corner, ect. Most often times, they are alittle ahead & get put into squad positions & such.

I think if she took the direct appointment to USNA and went Marine option, she would love it. She will dedicate herself to the mission and the final goal. That's good to hear about JROTC kids getting a chance to help others out. It's all about working together!

 

[jamzmom]

I can hook her up with another young lady who also has four sisters (& one completely spoiled baby brother) who is at USNA in her second year looking to go the Marine Option. If your daughter would be interested in asking her some questions, have her let me know. This young lady was NJROTC in high school before going to Marion Prep to get her appointment.

 

[oneandfive]

I can hook her up with another young lady who also has four sisters (& one completely spoiled baby brother) who is at USNA in her second year looking to go the Marine Option. If your daughter would be interested in asking her some questions, have her let me know. This young lady was NJROTC in high school before going to Marion Prep to get her appointment.

Okay, thanks. They do have some things in common don't they?

 

[jamzmom]

If you can wrangle her to sit down & read here, there is some great advice & food for thought. As you can see, no one will pull any punches or be biased. I have no way of knowing her heart but I sure don't think she should rush to tell the Prep School no just yet. I'd talk it out some more cause these people have great insight. They've been there done that whereas she hasn't yet. Keep an open mind!

 

[Zaphod]

In my eyes, she deserves everything she has EARNED so far!

...and please don't, in any way, think that I am minimizing that in the slightest. From what you describe, she has a right to be proud.

So do you.

I think if she took the direct appointment to USNA and went Marine option, she would love it.

Now THAT is a GREAT reason to attend USNA!

The Marines are better than the Army anyway.

 

[jamzmom]

Strike that whole unbiased thing I said.

 

[Zaphod]

Hey........ Facts are facts.

 

[The Commissioner]

First, my daughter has had the opportunity to attend classes at both USNA and USMA on official college visits. This week, she's been able to go to USMAPS classes as well. She just feels that the level of instruction (difficulty) isn't the same and that the cadet candidates don't respect the instructors the way she thinks they should, it's not about them respecting her.

This observation is bothersome to me as a USMAPS 'Dad' but not unbelievable. The faculty I met during two visits to the prep school were impressive. For example, my son's AP calculus instructor is a retired LTC and formerly taught calculus to plebes at West Point. What better teacher to prep a cadet candidate in calculus than one who knows exactlywhat the plebes are going to experience?

I'm going out on a limb here but it's possible that the CC's your daughter shadowed are either getting burned out at USMAPS or the atmosphere is getting relaxed. Both happen as the school year progresses.

The mission of the faculty at USMAPS is to remediate what caused the CC's to be disqualified from WP and put them in a position to earn an appointment on the second try. CC's know this and why some of them would behave in a way that would suggest disrespect to men and women who are trying hard to help them achieve a dream doesn't compute unless someone was having a bad day. I wish your daughter could have shadowed my son because I think she would have left with a much different impression of the place.

She really loved the academy classes and the SS's because "she was with kids that were just like her and wanted the same things she does". She felt like some of the "prepsters" didn't have the same level of dedication. This is a kid who can't wait to graduate because she is so tired of being with students who don't care, don't try, and mock those who do. We come from a HS that is very integrated and it is not the average suburb school.

In no way do I mean to lump all "prepsters" into this idea, but I am just expressing what she has said bothered her. She wants to excell, be challenged and be around those who want the same things.

There are a few CC's at USMAPS right now who don't have high dedication. Chances are they won't be on the bus in June heading to R-Day. There are very many CC's there right now who are highly dedicated. Quite a few of them come from backgrounds that are 'challenging' to say the least. It is amazing to hear what these kids have had to overcome in order to make it this far. Once again, it appears your daughter didn't get to hang out with the kids at USMAPS who could just have easily been at West Point this year but for a few more SAT points or a higher grade in math. I strongly encourage her to not judge the prep school or its student body by the comments of a few if her dream is to truly become a member of The Long Gray Line.

 

[Antoinette]

Hey, great dicussion. The career options AFTER the SA's is a very important factor in choosing a Service Academy.

The Marine option from USNA is very selective. Will your daughter be happy with her career choices in the Navy if she does not qualify for the Marines? How many midshipmen qualify for Marines? What were their class ranks? Will she be happy with the major that will allow her to attain the class rank so that she can be selected for her choice of careers?

 

[jamzmom]

Antoinette brings up a good point. Marine selection is selective. My special friend told me that she had to be towards the top of her class to reach that goal. She gave me the percentages but I'm afraid the old brain didn't retain the numbers. I recall that she was deeply concerned about it going in. Maybe our resident BGOs can answer as to that?

She felt like some of the "prepsters" didn't have the same level of dedication.

I lean more towards understanding the Commish on this one. I can almost promise you that she will feel this way about academy life as well many times. It takes all kinds of crazy people to make the world go round & some of them end up at academies. Heck, they even end up on here!