Usmma vs nrotc

[jasperdog]

I never understood why after training men and women for so long at KP, the DOT would allow mids to become anything other than a merchant mariner

DOT really has no say or choice in it - the way the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) and the laws that currently authorize the USMMA spell out the obligation and how it may be satisfied. That said, I am thankful for the latitude and the resultant "Options and Opportunities" it provides those who choice to attend upon graduation.

 

[kdbax]

KPEngineer: My ultimate goal is to go active duty, which they both offer, as for the major my plan is to be an engineer. As for marine engineering and naval architecture, which is what interests me, would these majors allow me to work on land at a port engineering ships or would I be working on a ship?

Just a note: The Navy may have very different ideas for you other than being a ship's engineer. DS the Ensign isn't in the engine room.

 

[KP2013dramamama]

That said, I am thankful for the latitude and the resultant "Options and Opportunities" it provides those who choice to attend upon graduation.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

 

[Spud]

When it comes to a job as a junior officer in the Navy, don't confuse "major" with "job". Upon graduation almost all Navy Ensigns go to one of the Big 5: Ships, Subs, Aviation, SEALS, or Marines. Their majors do not necessarily match the job such as: a pilot may be an English major, a Marine 2ndLT may be an engineering major, and a sub officer may be an international relations major. They are assigned a division of 15-30 sailors or Marines for a minimum of a sea tour (after any specialized training) and then if they choose, they apply to a specialty field that they majored in like Naval Architecture, Engineering, etc. The reason for the Division Officer/Platoon Leader sea tour before branching is that the Navy wants its specialists to have real-world experience before they start designing systems. Before an engineer in a shipyard begins to make decisions that affect a fighting crew, the Navy wants him/her to appreciate the sheer heart-pounding adrenaline of an onboard fire or flooding in the real world.

In doing so, the specialist gives up the chance to command ships, squadrons, battalions, and greater units in combat and will stay in their respective fields for their career and whatever promotion and command opportunities it may have. The nice thing about this system is the officer gets a chance to investigate the various specialties he/she maybe interested in and talk to people in those jobs over a number of years to really get to know the path ahead.

My major was Aero Engineering and after my shipboard tour, I realized I did not want to get near hard core engineering and it's math ever again. I found out my biggest satisfaction was being a "doer" and user of the Navy's weapons, not a spear carrier for guys that did. That was something I never realized until I got out into the fleet.

 

[jasperdog]

When it comes to a job as a junior officer in the Navy, don't confuse "major" with "job". Upon graduation almost all Navy Ensigns go to one of the Big 5: Ships, Subs, Aviation, SEALS, or Marines. Their majors do not necessarily match the job such as: a pilot may be an English major, a Marine 2ndLT may be an engineering major, and a sub officer may be an international relations major. ...

My major was Aero Engineering and after my shipboard tour, I realized I did not want to get near hard core engineering and it's math ever again. I found out my biggest satisfaction was being a "doer" and user of the Navy's weapons, not a spear carrier for guys that did. That was something I never realized until I got out into the fleet.

Spud:

All good points. I'd add though that in my understanding there are two of key things that are different in this respect about USMMA. At USMMA today there are only 5 choices of Major -1) 2 for aspiring Deck Officers (a)Logistics & intermodal Transportation or b) Marine Transportation aka "straight deck") or 3 for aspiring Engineering Officers: a) Marine Engineering (aka straight engine); b) Marine Engineering Systems or c) Marine Engineering & Shipyard Management. 2) By the time they graduate in order to be eligible to "sit for" your Merchant Mariners' License, each USMMA graduate will have spent a year at sea working as an apprentice officer or a "fourth mate or fourth assistant engineer" aka a "cadet" in what is the real "fleet" they will sail and work in should they choose to sail on their license to fulfill their service obligation doing so along with their time in the US Naval Reserve as a Strategic Sealift Officer. That's as immersive and as complete a so called "realistic job preview" as hiring processes discuss as possible. If they opt to apply for and accept an Active Duty Commission as the way to satisfy their obligation, the majority graduates of the 15 - 25% of each class to do so, have a clear understanding of which of the "big five" or in the case of the other services which career specialty they will be assigned before they agree to accept that "option".

That said, no matter which Active Duty option they may choose, their exposure to it prior to graduation is no more and may indeed be less that their Military Academy and/or ROTC Scholarship counterparts. But they do have the various Service Representatives on campus to work with to get as best an understanding of what their lives and careers on Active Duty, at least initially as junior Officers will be. Additionally, my understanding is the "class size" those mids are afforded when interacting, working and training (where applicable) with each of the various service representatives us usually much small than when one of their Military Academy do so with their Company Commissioned Officers on the Commandant's staff at those respective institutions.

 

[KPEngineer]

Their majors do not necessarily match the job such as: ... and a sub officer may be an international relations major.

No way do you get into the Nuclear Navy as an international relations major. You're point is generally valid, but to get on a sub you have to have a science degree along with the appropriate appendages.

 

[sprog]

No way do you get into the Nuclear Navy as an international relations major. You're point is generally valid, but to get on a sub you have to have a science degree along with the appropriate appendages.

I thought everyone at USNA had a science degree. Even with an English major, it's a BS in English (so they have to take all the engineering/hard science stuff required in the core curriculum).

I know a guy with an Econ degree from USNA who was on a nuclear sub. This was long enough ago so that he interviewed with Rickover, and the Admiral gave him sh#t over the degree. He had a very funny story about it (the octogenarian 4-star sent him out of the interview room three times). At any rate, he was still selected for the program. Maybe that's changed?

Certainly, though, your typical NROTC liberal arts major won't have the required classes to enter the nuclear Navy. I know a few guys from my college (VMI) who are now on subs, and they were all engineering majors.

 

[skipsdad]

I'm sure the Navy prefers engineering majors, but at the end of the day, even these engineering majors will go to one year of nuclear power school. Non-engineering majors could also go, either by choice or by draft (depending upon the "the needs of the Navy"...) At any rate, even the non-engr majors will have had the fundamental courses needed by power school, (calc, physics, thermodynamics, etc).

 

[skipsdad]

Just a response to myself,..., previous post referred to USNA grads, not NROTC. I don't know of many Econ programs at NROTC schools that require thermodynamics...

 

[kinnem]

Just a response to myself,..., previous post referred to USNA grads, not NROTC. I don't know of many Econ programs at NROTC schools that require thermodynamics...

And yet 85% of NROTC "liberal arts" students are actually STEM majors.

 

[a_alburrito]

Hello everyone! I am a senior in high school from California and I have a big decision. First off as of today I was rejected from USNA. But I received an appointment to USMMA in January. Also I was not awarded the NROTC Scholarship but I do have the opportunity to join as a normal college program student at the University of California, San Diego. So my question is should I attend USMMA or join the NROTC program and attend UCSD? What are the positives and negatives? I need help this is the biggest decision of my life!

Right now I am in the exact same situation you were in a year ago. Back in March I received my USNA and NROTC rejection letters on the same day. My hopes of going to an Academy or going into the Navy were dwindling until my KP appointment arrived in the mail. I have accepted my appointment to KP but I am going to prep school for a year. I just want to make sure I am making the right decision because as of now my ultimate goal is to go AD Navy and hearing from someone who was in my position would be a great help.

 

[beyond]

Right now I am in the exact same situation you were in a year ago. Back in March I received my USNA and NROTC rejection letters on the same day. My hopes of going to an Academy or going into the Navy were dwindling until my KP appointment arrived in the mail. I have accepted my appointment to KP but I am going to prep school for a year. I just want to make sure I am making the right decision because as of now my ultimate goal is to go AD Navy and hearing from someone who was in my position would be a great help.

I can get into more detail if you like, but just by the numbers 35 applied for AD Navy and they took 18. GPA while you're at KP matters.

 

[a_alburrito]

I can get into more detail if you like, but just by the numbers 35 applied for AD Navy and they took 18. GPA while you're at KP matters.

More detail would be wonderful. I would like to have as much information as possible before I put myself in a place that may or may not be for me.

 

[Swabthedecks]

Hello everyone! I am a senior in high school from California and I have a big decision. First off as of today I was rejected from USNA. But I received an appointment to USMMA in January. Also I was not awarded the NROTC Scholarship but I do have the opportunity to join as a normal college program student at the University of California, San Diego. So my question is should I attend USMMA or join the NROTC program and attend UCSD? What are the positives and negatives? I need help this is the biggest decision of my life!

May 1st has come and gone and if you plan on rejecting the Appointment you should act without delay as your decision effects others in the pipeline awaiting final adjudication. This time of year things happen quickly and deposits to school are lost so please let KP know soonest.

 

[KPEngineer]

More detail would be wonderful. I would like to have as much information as possible before I put myself in a place that may or may not be for me.

Acession numbers for Active Duty change from year to year. The 50(ish)% acceptance rate of this year will almost certainly be different four years from now. How different is the real question and it wont be answered for another three years.

 

[beyond]

More detail would be wonderful. I would like to have as much information as possible before I put myself in a place that may or may not be for me.

What do you want to know? We're not an active duty program... it is a nice option but like KPEngineer said.... it varies year to year. By 2020 it could be at 100% or 0% you just have to realize you're taking a gamble and you could end up sailing if you lose the bet.

 

[a_alburrito]

What do you want to know? We're not an active duty program... it is a nice option but like KPEngineer said.... it varies year to year. By 2020 it could be at 100% or 0% you just have to realize you're taking a gamble and you could end up sailing if you lose the bet.

If I understand correctly, are you implying that the Academy is scaling down the number of graduates that are able to go AD?

 

[Capt MJ]

The ability to go AD goes right to "the needs of the Navy/AF/Army/USCG," etc. Some years the aperture is larger than others, and there is no way to predict what percentage of slots from KP as a smaller accession point will be made available. There is no sure thing.

 

[beyond]

If I understand correctly, are you implying that the Academy is scaling down the number of graduates that are able to go AD?

The number of people who graduate and go AD has nothing to do with the Academy. KP has no say in who gets an active duty slot and who doesn't, nor do the total number of slots. It's not like KP is scaling anything up or down. The number of people the service wants year to year goes up or down. I'm not making any predictions about the future. I'm just telling you what the numbers are right now, going AD isn't guaranteed for anyone.