USNA player’s failed test causes ‘uproar’

bruno said:
...unless of course you know something that the rest of us don't- mainly that his continued eligibility to play for Navy was the reason he was not disenrolled? If you know that, then please enlighten us- otherwise you are just setting up a straw horse to demolish without shedding any actual light on the issue.
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Is your contention that it he was retained because it had nothing to do with him being a star D1 football player who is getting special treatment?

Can you show any statistics that would support your theory? Any statistics, especially ones that show how many non-D1 football payers who tested positive for drugs and have 335 demerits AND at least one honor violation that have been retained?

If so, please enlighten us as to what you know that we don't.

Until then, we have what we have - a positive drug test, multiple conduct violations, multiple honor violations (yes, I believe he lied about the "accidental ingestion") for a D1 football star at the United States Naval Academy who remains.

Zero tolerance. :rolleyes:

Must mean something else to Fowler.

Go Navy, rah rah. :rolleyes:
 
Do you think the issue is mostly D1 football, mostly race, or a good combination of the two?
 
Luigi59 said:
Is your contention that it he was retained because it had nothing to do with him being a star D1 football player who is getting special treatment?

Can you show any statistics that would support your theory? Any statistics, especially ones that show how many non-D1 football payers who tested positive for drugs and have 335 demerits AND at least one honor violation that have been retained?

If so, please enlighten us as to what you know that we don't.

Until then, we have what we have - a positive drug test, multiple conduct violations, multiple honor violations (yes, I believe he lied about the "accidental ingestion") for a D1 football star at the United States Naval Academy who remains.

Zero tolerance. :rolleyes:

Must mean something else to Fowler.

Go Navy, rah rah. :rolleyes:
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Luigi, IMHO it's not D-1 Football, it's the precedence that this case: http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2006/12/vadm-rempt-petard-some-assembly-reqd.html set, and Fowler doesn't want to retire early. Do a little research on that case and you'll see that there were actual recordings of the accused, apologizing to the alleged victim, and when the accused was acquitted, the Academy took huge heat for throwing him out even though he was guilty of unbecoming and sharing furniture. This case is a walk in the park compared to that one, there is no "victim" and the needs of the Navy will trump silly rules and honor.

Again the Fleet suffers.
 
Interesting reading.

MalachyMarine said:
I agree demerits aren't everything. I have about 200 myself. However, the times have changed. Most MIDN get through USNA without a SINGLE demerit. I got mine for two major conduct offenses that I was extremely guilty of and readily admitted my mistakes. Perhaps it was the only reason I managed to graduate. Having 335 demerits is a significant issue. It doesn't just happen overnight or because you forgot to shine your shoes or get a haircut. It signifies severe refusal to follow the rules. I know Mr. Curry. I had to work with him (and not just from the Honor aspect). I can tell you that he does not get it. He has no desire to serve as an officer, and I doubt that he even has any idea what an officer does other than order people around. Additionally, he is an habitual liar. While his history doesn't indicate it, MIDN are very reluctant to accuse others of offenses so it isn't fully indicative of his true nature. He regularly tries to say small 'untruths' in order to escape punishment or even admonishment. I would not trust him if he said he brushed his teeth in the morning. He is not fit to be a Naval Officer.
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http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064028656-post38.html
 
mom3boys said:
Do you think the issue is mostly D1 football, mostly race, or a good combination of the two?
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IMHO, yes both.

1. D1 football at USNA is HUGE money making machine. We're talking multi-millions. Having a successful team means recruiting star players, grooming them through a prep school to qualify them, and putting up with multiple conduct and honor violations to ensure a competitive D1 football team . Beat Army! :rolleyes:

2. The Chief of Naval Operations and the Superintendent of the US Naval Academy have both stated that "Diversity is the #1 priority at the USNA."

Not honor.

Not character.

Not integrity.

Not fitness to serve as a United States Naval Officer.

But diversity.
 
Maximus - actually you could be on to something here.

The Navy threw out Lamar Owens. He was accused of rape and acquitted of rape but found guilty of lesser offenses. Back then folks said he was being court martialed because he was a black football player. he was being picked on. When he was not allowed to graduate - because of his other separable offenses and the Navy didn't want him as an officer - the Academy took a lot of grief for that.
They were accused of a double standard etc.
Now that the tables have turned - which is it?
You can't have it both ways...... USNA is in a lose/lose situation.
 
I agree with Just A Mom ...

plus it is easy to try, condem and execute from the sidelines. The "instant off with his head" or it's favoritism and racist coddling ... may make YOU feel better to write, but it is not how the system works. Nor should it ... Everyone claims they know what is right. Well, none of US is in charge. Sometimes the wheels of justice move slow ... but they do move. Getting it right, really right -- not ranting reactonary lynching -- should be the goal ...
 
It would not be much a knee jerk reaction, as the midshipman has had more than his fair share of "run ins". We had a kid two years behind me that just couldn't stay out of trouble. He was gone by his second year. There is no justification to retain this kid. He's taking on water, and he's going to take more people down with him. Scuttle him now, let him drown and save the midshipmen he's hasn't negatively influenced yet.
 
Just_A_Mom said:
Maximus - actually you could be on to something here.

The Navy threw out Lamar Owens. He was accused of rape and acquitted of rape but found guilty of lesser offenses. Back then folks said he was being court martialed because he was a black football player. he was being picked on. When he was not allowed to graduate - because of his other separable offenses and the Navy didn't want him as an officer - the Academy took a lot of grief for that.
They were accused of a double standard etc.
Now that the tables have turned - which is it?
You can't have it both ways...... USNA is in a lose/lose situation.
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Oh I'm not asking for it both ways JAM, I'm only pointing out the information. As I stated in my post above: I doubt Fowler wants to retire, so he took the easy road, turn a blind eye. Where did that come from :confused:
The Navy was not accused of a double standard back then, they will be now though.

BTW, back then was about 4 years ago lol
 
I just wanted to add this as it was a little hard to find on my first link. JAM probably just gave a cursory search on the Owens case, and drew the simple conclusion that he was framed, but this article shows the evidence where he admitted to the incidents of that night. Whether it was rape or consensual doesn't matter either as he was acquitted even with the taped evidence, the academy was completely in the right for expelling him for unbecoming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030901400.html
 
The Naval Academy won't release the record because only administrative action was taken.
 
MJOmom said:
I agree with Just A Mom ...

plus it is easy to try, condem and execute from the sidelines. The "instant off with his head" or it's favoritism and racist coddling ... may make YOU feel better to write, but it is not how the system works. Nor should it ... Everyone claims they know what is right. Well, none of US is in charge. Sometimes the wheels of justice move slow ... but they do move. Getting it right, really right -- not ranting reactonary lynching -- should be the goal ...
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Reactionary? End of debate folks. :shake:
 
His three star rank is a result of the position he holds as Superintendant of USNA. While yes, in the Military chain of command, he reports directly to the CNO, he also has to entertain and work with the USNA Board of Visitors. Have you taken a look at that list?
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Right - however, someone correct me if I am wrong, but the CNO answers to the Joint chiefs. If this midn is not fit to be in the Navy then the Navy can kick him out. I don't think the BOV can say to the Supt - NOT to kick out a midn; or influence the CNO. The CNO doesn't answer to the BOV - he serves at the pleasure of the President.

Hey if this Curry fellow really wants to set the record straight…..all he has to do is release his record!
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it could be that he can't. If he was facing separation from the Navy and sought legal counsel (as all midn and cadet have a right to) he could have been advised not to talk.

Maximus - my apologies - the "You" I was referring to was not you but a collective "you" to all those who are up in arms - the alums etc...

I recall the Owens case - and you are correct he was acquitted. When that happened the CNO refused to Commission him and he was expelled in the spring of his senior year. The Alums circled their wagons - said the Supt was basically picking on him for being a black, male, football player. They fought the $90,000 bill he was presented with (and probably paid it for him), some even sought a presidential pardon.

Owens was expelled in spring of 2007 just before Fowler came to USNA -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/13/AR2007061300652.html
Rempt's tenure will undoubtedly be defined by two high-profile sexual-assault cases involving Navy football players in 2006. Critics -- some of whom are academy alumni -- say that Rempt went too far in cases such as that of former Navy star quarterback Lamar S. Owens Jr.
They have assailed the superintendent online and threatened to withhold contributions. Rempt expelled Owens, who was cleared of raping a female midshipman but convicted of related misconduct charges that included having sex in a dorm.
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I didn't take the time to search CDR Salamander's blog but IIRC - he was on this band wagon.
And that was AFTER the events became public. None of Curry's events have become public. Folks just believe what they want to believe.
 
Just_A_Mom said:
Maximus - my apologies - the "You" I was referring to was not you but a collective "you" to all those who are up in arms - the alums etc...
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JAM: the confusion in your post could be eliminated if you would simply use the Southern pronoun "y'all."
 
We here in the private sector can all express our outrage by not buying tickets/attending USNA football games next season. In my mind that is a good way to demonstrate an opinion on the final decision. Unfortunately though for the mids, they can't use this approach.

Another thought, what are the chances that this young man will even be in the academy next football season? Possibly the incident is going to be allowed to work itself out in that the accused will transfer to another school or be encouraged to transfer. This may be more wishful thinking than anything else, but it is a consideration as to why the final decision was made.

GoNavyMom
 
Owens had sex in the barracks....gets him the boot in my book. I can name a few Firsties that got the boot at my Alma mater for the same thing.
 
mom3boys said:
JAM: the confusion in your post could be eliminated if you would simply use the Southern pronoun "y'all."
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You DO keep trying to make me a Southerner! lol

Luigi - now I am forced to confess that after having lived in PA for 22 years, I have never been further west than Harrisburg. :eek:

GoNavyMom - you have an excellent point.
Folks should also remember this is not over. The Navy Coach could kick him off the team. That certainly seems to be the sentiment at gomids.com.
Coach Ken can put his money where his mouth is and suspend Curry - at least until he proves he is worthy of wearing a Navy Jersey.

If that happens he can either stay and change his ways dedicating his life to being a good midshipman and Naval officer or he can transfer. I'm sure he can find a college that will take him, he just will have to sit out a year and then he gets back in the game.
 
Curry proved he's not worthy of wearing any kind of uniform, neither was Owens.
 
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