I don't know if CC meant exactly what he typed or not. Like it or not, money can get you a lot of things. I don't have enogh spare change to find out if I call up and tell MIT that I will write them their $250k check today if they admit my son.
Value of GPA?
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MN-Dad-2016
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This is an interesting conversation. You hit my main point in bold. Your school had a lot of Ivy offers. And the cycle will continue. As you accurately stated, they are looking for future endowments.
To expand on that point, a big reason why they want you to be giving back as a youth (volunteer hours) is because it PROVES you are programmed to give back to them. It's logical.I propose the reason why some HS students you see get bypassed by the Ivy's is because they don't fit a school (demographic) profile which is different that why they don't fit the SA profile. For Ivy's, follow the money.
Back the SA admissions. To get into a SA, they are looking for GREAT athletic students. I for one agree with this concept. After all, the leaders have to be fighters. Not as much with the Ivy's.
When I was talking about taking college courses, I was referring to Calc, Physics, Biology, Chemistry etc. Not a couple of history classes during the summer. It goes without saying that if you want the best RATED schools, you have to prove that you can handle the material.
Like high schools, the best rated colleges simply shed the bottom students. To assume that Stanford teaches physics better than the University of MN is a stretch. Additionally, to assume a school that has more Ivy admissions is "better" than our high school is also a stretch. I don't believe it for a moment. The best students in any college or any high school can be superior to a top ranked school. But that's not the perception.
Agree!
tradecraft
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It may be one of the pieces of the pie that's looked at by admissions but I feel that it should be reiterated that unlike civilian universities, the holistic approach with the added emphasis on leadership potential and athletics is unique to the Service Academies. What's the point of even considering a straight A letter hunter with a perfect SAT/ACT if he or she can not pull themselves up a pull-up bar nor run a mile under 8 minutes? The gist of the criteria used by admissions is that: to have a shot at an acceptance to USAFA,WP,USNA or USCGA, you don't have to walk on water or have perfect GPA scores. A well rounded candidate that shows leadership qualities and a balanced resume of athletic ability and above average academic performance may be the winning recipe.
MN-Dad-2016
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If you apply to an Ivy, they "know" the area demographics. So in MN, Blake HS and a host of other schools are from more affluent locations. While 75% of students at Harvard get financial aid, that doesn't mean that Harvard contributes (only that they take out loans). So assuming they follow the money, the area is going to be a good indicator of the parents income.
I have not verified this but I heard there was a legal battle years ago for some of the schools with the larges endowments. The government threatened to take away their non-profit status unless they started to give away the dollars. That's when they boosted their contributions to lower income families.
Christcorp
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Pima. The truth is, you DON'T have to fill out fafsa. That is the federal, nationally accepted, form for determining aid. You are totally free to walk into the registrar and write them a check. And if you walk up to the school of your choice, and are paying "FULL PRICE", without any aid, and you meet all their entrance requirements, you can pretty much go there if you want.
If you walk over to Columbia or the University of Chicago, with your parents, and are willing to write them a check for $59,000 for the first year, you will be surprised what will happen. Imagine the difference between 1st class and economy on an airline. The main purpose of FAFSA, is to determine the government's arbitrary expected family contribution. But there is nothing to say you can't simply pay for college.
Personally; I only know of a handful of people who can afford to walk into Sarah Lawrence or Columbia, write a $60,000 check (Plus all the misc living expenses), and not think about it. But it's definitely possible. And if you have that kind of money, getting into a college is the easy part. (Assuming you meet their minimum standards).
While you're at it, the next time you get a cracked windshield, and the repair center says how much it will cost and your deductible, ask them how much it is if you don't use insurance and just pay for it in cash. It's about HALF. I've paid for a lot of windshields. My wife and daughter went to the same doctor on the same day for a yearly checkup. Wife used tricare insurance and the price was "X" amount. My daughter, I paid in CASH, and the receipt was $100 less. Not trying to get off topic; simply saying, if you have the money, you can go to just about any school.
If you walk over to Columbia or the University of Chicago, with your parents, and are willing to write them a check for $59,000 for the first year, you will be surprised what will happen. Imagine the difference between 1st class and economy on an airline. The main purpose of FAFSA, is to determine the government's arbitrary expected family contribution. But there is nothing to say you can't simply pay for college.
Personally; I only know of a handful of people who can afford to walk into Sarah Lawrence or Columbia, write a $60,000 check (Plus all the misc living expenses), and not think about it. But it's definitely possible. And if you have that kind of money, getting into a college is the easy part. (Assuming you meet their minimum standards).
While you're at it, the next time you get a cracked windshield, and the repair center says how much it will cost and your deductible, ask them how much it is if you don't use insurance and just pay for it in cash. It's about HALF. I've paid for a lot of windshields. My wife and daughter went to the same doctor on the same day for a yearly checkup. Wife used tricare insurance and the price was "X" amount. My daughter, I paid in CASH, and the receipt was $100 less. Not trying to get off topic; simply saying, if you have the money, you can go to just about any school.
Christcorp
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The majority of financial aid students, at ANY university, is not the ones who contribute to the endowment or alumni funds. THAT'S why the universities like individuals who will pay 100% on their own.
personally, I think the premise of this conversation very generalized. From my graduating high school class, we have at least one kid at each Ivy league, not to mention the kids at MIT and other very prestigious schools. These kids are far from being entitled rich kids. Many of them come from families with fairly modest incomes. What got them into these highly ranked schools was their academic and extra-curricular performance, NOT their financials. Who knows, maybe these people, my friends, are exceptions to the rule, but I am proud of all they have accomplished (including winning academic competitions at the state, national, and international level.) The implications made in some of these posts seem to devalue the accomplishments of extraordinarily talented young people...
Okay now that my rant is over, I think it is a fair time to point out that this thread has very little to do with SAs... you know, with the whole free education thing and all...
Okay now that my rant is over, I think it is a fair time to point out that this thread has very little to do with SAs... you know, with the whole free education thing and all...
MN-Dad-2016
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Your username is bmw17. My DS's username would have been UsedChevy17.
No BMW's were in his HS parking lot. All in fun of course.
From http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/02/08/how-college-coaches-pull-strings.html
“I’ve known most of the admissions directors I work with for 30 years. We’ve become friends— when they come to town, we go out for drinks, have dinner. Of course if there is a student I really want off the wait-list, they take my call.”— A private San Francisco high school college counselor
I am simply saying that a high school reputation rounds a person up. It's a reality of life. Same goes with what college you attend. There are also a lot of relationships that help get some kids into colleges. The quote that I listed above should not be surprising. It happens all around us in life.
Here is my generalizations. People who have more money usually are more educated. College educated people on average have more money and they like to live in nicer areas. It's easier to live in nicer areas when there is a traditional family structure. Motivated family cultures produce higher class room achievers.
My point is that Ivy's take the easy route. If you go to a tier 2 or 3 high school and you get in, you have to be even more impressive of a person to get in. That is NOT to take away from your classmates accomplishments nor the student who's money influenced them getting in. They don't let dumb students into Ivy's. At the same token I hope we all can admit that relationships help some people get into the SA's too.
To CC's point. colleges want future endowments. Those stockpiled billions of dollars didn't happen by accident.
Their system works for them and it isn't perfect. Life isn't fair and if you are reading this you don't really want it to be fair.
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Your username is bmw17. My DS's username would have been UsedChevy17.
hahahahahah my initials are BMW... I too drive a used chevy... Now I feel like I should change my screen name so people like you don't assume I'm an entitled rich kid!
MN-Dad-2016
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You are going to a SA. I'd never consider you as an entitled rich kid.
But good thing your name wasn't RollsRoyce17.
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Christcorp
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In my day, I would have had to change my name to "Yugo". LOL!
I do understand that school profiles matter. However, a lot of this is based on opportunity. If a youth attends a private school and does well it does not necessarily indicate that a youth whom attends a public school in a reputable area cannot have an equal or better chance at attending an Ivy or a service academy. For example, my son attends a public high school in California (about 550 in graduating class). He currently has a 4.2weighted gpa and a 4.0 unweighted gpa. Right now, there are 4 young men that will be attending the AFA in our county alone (Athletes and scholars) and he is being considered for the prep school. In California it appears that the "public Ivies" which are the UC's (Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego etc) are what most desire to attend. Most of the youth out here do not really think of even applying to the Ivies back East. The UC's, whom are public are amazing Universities. Although, Stanford and USC are pretty popular alternatives to the UC's, most Californian youth don't apply back east as much as one would think. In fact, my son was accepted to UC Berkeley(average freshman applicant has a 4.2gpa and 2200 SAT), but has his heart set on the AFA, so if given a prep school option or a Falcon Foundation Scholar option, will forgo the UC/ROTC route. Nonetheless, we are very proud of the youth in our county whom will be attending the AFA. Go Falcons!!
MN-Dad-2016
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Sorry for taking it off course.
I realize that there is some overlap but I think that many Ivy students cannot get into a harder SA and many SA students cannot get into an Ivy. Both are difficult to get in. But the SA lean on athletics more than the Ivy's. There is no doubt we all know people who were offered spots to both but that is the exception to the rule.
Christcorp
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1. I've never heard of the UC's being referred to as the "Public Ivy's". I've heard of the "West Coast Ivy's" such as Stanford, Gonzaga, Cal-tech, and loyola marymount.
2. The best non-Ivy schools would probably be Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Tufts, and a few other.
3. If your son is sitting on a 4.0-4,2 gpa; unless he BOMBED the ACT/SAT, or he's being recruited as an athlete, or he's a minority; I wouldn't keep my hopes up for a prep-school slot. Other than minority, athletes, and enlisted air force; it's usually a place to help a high potential individual who has an academic deficiency in an area. A 4.0-4.2 gpa doesn't sound like someone with an academic deficiency.
2. The best non-Ivy schools would probably be Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Tufts, and a few other.
3. If your son is sitting on a 4.0-4,2 gpa; unless he BOMBED the ACT/SAT, or he's being recruited as an athlete, or he's a minority; I wouldn't keep my hopes up for a prep-school slot. Other than minority, athletes, and enlisted air force; it's usually a place to help a high potential individual who has an academic deficiency in an area. A 4.0-4.2 gpa doesn't sound like someone with an academic deficiency.
College grades
Hi CC
When does the academy consider college grade point average. Is there a set number of credits needed before it is entered into the calculations? OR If low high school GPA and High college GPA does the academy use both or just the college? Assuming the student is still in high school.
Regards
John
Hi CC
When does the academy consider college grade point average. Is there a set number of credits needed before it is entered into the calculations? OR If low high school GPA and High college GPA does the academy use both or just the college? Assuming the student is still in high school.
Regards
John
My GPA wasn't that great and i still got in. they weigh everything. my academic went up because i got a degree before finishing high school. just stay involved. do the best you can.