Venting about parents on FB

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My friends in HR at my company talk of a trend they started seeing a few years ago - parents wanting to come to interviews with their college graduate sons and daughters, parents asking for the interview questions in advance so they could prep them, parents calling/emailing after a non-selection to find out why, candidates handing the phone to parents who wanted to handle the compensation negotiation, parents calling supervisors about performance evaluations. Granted, it's not everyone, but it's something that wasn't seen before. It's a topic that won't be settled to everyone's satisfaction any time soon. At what point does loving support and interest become an impediment to a son or daughter's ability and willingness to make independent decisions, right or wrong, and learn from them...
 
The sad part is some companies are supporting this by having parent open houses, inviting parents to open houses, etc. I mean reviewing your kids resume and giving advice, helping them prepare for an interview is one thing, but open houses and info sessions for parents... come on. As a person in a position to hire folks (and I hire folks from baby boomers to millennials) if a kid's parents called me or injected themselves, I would never hire them.

The other day I put a bid on a house and another couple had put a bid that same day. The realtor said that they had a contingency in their offer that said, "Parental approval required." What the heck! Let's just say they went with my offer.
 
Social media hasn't changed this an any way. What social media has allowed parents to do is share their half-truths more openly. No longer is it a whisper or an email to a few people. It's a post. It's a tweet.

Snip..

I'm not even sure the line is all that fine between a supportive parent and a helicopter parent.

So what does Facebook and Twitter allow you to see? How pathetic some parents are and why you don't want to be one of "those parents."

Wow, painting with a very broad brush there...

1) understand that Facebook has replaced email and forums for many parents and a majority of kids. It's a communication tool, no more no less.

2) communication is more real time now, with positive and negative consequences. For every bad example (toilet paper) I know of positive examples (roommates cutting/suicidal, son talking about quiting, etc) where information was provided by USMA to parent and club reps on what to do, when to contact, etc.

3) Accurate and timely info from authorative sources drives out the rumors, half truths, etc that you mention. There are newsletters and lists online that new cadets and parents find which are horribly out of date. The anecdotal experiences of parents and even grads is usually out of date regarding details, stuff changes that fast. (I've seen USMA BTD shut down a grad during a briefing on this type thing)

4) service academies are trying to deal with attrition of under represented groups. This results in changes. Not going to belabor the point, but its a real effect.

It would be easy for me to be condescending about even your college experience. I got on a bus, maybe received one package mid quarter from my mom. And would only talk to them immediately prior to quarter end to make arrangements if I was headed home. I'd tell my parents my grades when I went home or via letter. I also worked 20-40 hrs a wk during the school year.

I'm probably more independent because of that. I also did stupid things I was lucky to survive. It took me way longer to graduate then it should have, and my grades were not great because I did not put school first.

Things change. Deal with it.
 
When I was in the Army, one of my jobs was to oversee the research and formulate the responses to Congressional Inquiries that the Commanding General would ultimately sign off on. The MOC letters were accompanied by the original letters. I can't tell you how many of these came from family members in response to "Johnny can't get leave when he wants it" or "Johnny's CO is being unfair to him," etc. I couldn't believe some of the things that people would complain about to their MOC!! As we researched these, the letters went from the top down through the entire chain of command to Johnny's unit, where the responses would back up from there. I can tell you that these inquiries never helped those Johnny's careers.
 
hawk, you're preaching to the choir on the benefits of social media.

There difference between when you were a cadet and when I was a cadet is certainly there, but I think the difference between when I was a cadet and cadets now is even greater.

My parents traveled to Connecticut before my R-Day on July 1, 2002. We spent time with family in Connecticut. On R-Day they dropped me off and I saw them for about a minute or two before we were sent into Chase Hall. I wouldn't see them again until EAGLE pulled into Norfolk, VA. They have come up from Tennessee and I was able to hang out with them for a little while, while we were in port. I dazzled them with scary Swab Summer stories. I wouldn't see them again until Parents' Weekend.

At that point cell phones were common, but not like today. This was pre-smart phones. At the Coast Guard Academy we were only able to use our phones in designated areas (just outside of the mailroom and in phone booths in wing areas). So we couldn't use our cell phones in our rooms. Essentially our phones would charge until we needed to use them or until we got an emergency call from home. And because running around the P-ways as a 4/c cadet was especially unpleasant, we didn't make many phone calls.

Facebook and Twitter hadn't been invented at this point. We could use email, of course, or snail mail. After our 4/c year AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) was an option too. Typically AIM was used to talk to friends back home, or to communicate with other cadets.

At the Coast Guard Academy the Parents' Association was involved. It was there to allow parents to ask questions and it would provide information. There were list serves for classes so the parents could talk too. Parents made friends with other parents. It was nice. They felt like they had SOME idea of what was happening, even if it was infrequent, it was still more than the little bits and pieces they heard from their kids when they had a chance to make a call.

In all of this, there is one list serve admin or comms are person to person. I send an email to my dad, he sends an email back. The list serve admin sends an email to everyone on the list, they read it. Done.

If I had a problem and I needed to talk to my parents, I could. That conversation would stay between us, unless they wanted to talk to another parent. Cadets talked to cadets and parents talked to parents, and the overlap was a cadet talking to his/her parents.

That no longer exists. First, the very nature of social media removes that one-to-one private conversation. I don't doubt that the conversations HAVEN'T changed all that much in the last 50 years…. but the medium certainly has. It's not private. So, while one of my profanity filled calls to my parents in 2003, where I said how much I hated CGA and how dumb everything was, died then and there after I calmed down….. now, if a cadet writes something or a parent writes something on Facebook…. it echoes in eternity. There are many things I've exaggerated on the phone in the heat of the moment that would have sent parents on a witch hunt…. had they heard it…. but they didn't. Now….. it's "OH NO, MY KID CAN'T HAVE HIS MINI FRIDGE AND GOLF CLUBS IN HIS ROOM AT USAFA" or "OH NO, THE FOOD IS HORRIBLE AT USNA." Why? Because there's no cool-down and some parents are drama queens.

Next, there is no division between cadets and parents on social media. I hated some of my cadre. I did. And I'm guessing I mentioned some of the things they did to my parents. You can imagine, had my parents been helicopter parents, the wonderful opportunity Facebook could give them to confront my cadre. "How DARE you treat my little baby LITS like this!!!" There's no bottleneck to correct information before it's posted and spread throughout the Parent rumor mill world. It reminds me of videos of parents rushing a soccer field to push down a little kid that tripped their kids…. come on folks.


The Coast Guard Academy has changed so much since I graduated, and I didn't graduate all that long ago.

I think "things change, deal with it." is a wonderful piece of advice for parents. Your relationship with your child has changed. Deal with it. The amount of control you have over your child's life has changed. Deal with it. You no longer have "approval authority" in your child's daily life. Deal with it. The relationship you had with you child in the previous 18 years has changed forever. Deal with it. You are now an observer, a cheerleader and a source of support, but you're done driving this bus. Deal with it.

The helicopter parent is someone not prepared to hand over controls. But things change. Deal with it.
 
When I was in the Army, one of my jobs was to oversee the research and formulate the responses to Congressional Inquiries that the Commanding General would ultimately sign off on. The MOC letters were accompanied by the original letters. I can't tell you how many of these came from family members in response to "Johnny can't get leave when he wants it" or "Johnny's CO is being unfair to him," etc. I couldn't believe some of the things that people would complain about to their MOC!! As we researched these, the letters went from the top down through the entire chain of command to Johnny's unit, where the responses would back up from there. I can tell you that these inquiries never helped those Johnny's careers.

I had this exact same job. Can't remember, but we had 24 or 48 hours to respond and it was like everything was put on hold until this done. It sucked. We had so many of them overseas it was ridiculous. As mentioned many times, 90% of these were parents or family getting only part of the story and kids venting (sort of what LITS is saying in his comments). It then turned into full all out inquiries over half truths. We never had one kid "win"one of these and it just ended with the kid ridiculed by his fellow Marines for making life miserable for 48 hours, especially mine as the person in charge of these!
 
Roger.

Helicopter parents existed long before (MacMom), and will still exist when we have quantum wave implants.

Parent groups and social media make them more visible, but also allow for some preemption before damage is done. But some will be idiots no matter what.

Brigade tactical at USMA wants parents to know when and when not to call, as an example. That info needs to be disseminated. Can't count on cadets to tell them.

So I strongly believe accurate and timely info will displace rumor and anecdotes given the chance.

To be clear, never was a cadet or military. Did not mean to imply I was... Just pointing out that experiences vary over time. And school, branch, etc. In the academies, even companies, Reg, etc

Comms come and go. DS saw 3, with each largely reversing the trend of the prior. So 2 yr old experiences/info has often morphed, and by 3-4 years can be flat out wrong. But was right at the time for that particular situation.

DS was in a "hot" company as a plebe, next door to the 1SG. I'd hear prouncements here and elsewhere about cadet life/experiences that just seemed flat out inaccurate relative to his. Then he scrambled to a "chill" company in a remote barracks, and you'd think he was at a different school! Almost to the point of culture shock.

So many of the "half truths" alluded to in earlier posts were really just different cadet experiences.

We can go back to the horror stories. Just recognize there are also positive counterexamples you don't hear about, for some specific reasons.
 
Boy, I can relate NavyHoops. When those congressional inquiries come in, all else stops. They have the highest priority and I remember having just 24 hours to respond back through the chain of command. I, too, can not remember a situation where it worked out in the individual Marine's favor as they were most often half truths or incomplete information. Besides the hassle for the individual's reporting senior, the reason these often bode poorly for the serviceman is that it completely jumps the chain of command which is never a good thing. Constituents have a right to make inquiries via their elected representatives and I believe it is probably a good process in unique situations but for matters regarding a member of the armed forces this should be a last resort. (I offer this perspective for any posters, lurkers, parents, spouses, etc that may be reading this thread)
 
Oh ok Hawk, I has assumed you went to West Point.

What's the story about someone telling lies? Something like each lie was written down on a piece of paper and the papers were torn up into tiny pieces. The paper was tossed in the air and the little scraps of paper when everywhere. Then the person was told to collect all the paper, to stop the spread of the lies. I'm sure I butchered that.

Or there's the "a lie goes around the world once while the truth is still putting on its shoes". I probably butchered that too.

Social media can certainly be positive. Lies and rumors fill information voids. If an organization isn't filling that void with the truth, then rumor will find its way in. Being proactive is far better than trying to catch up with a lie that has a head start.
 
Social media can certainly be positive. Lies and rumors fill information voids. If an organization isn't filling that void with the truth, then rumor will find its way in. Being proactive is far better than trying to catch up with a lie that has a head start.

Ha - Sounds like its right out of your PR books! And it is so incredibly true.
 
Social media can certainly be positive. Lies and rumors fill information voids. If an organization isn't filling that void with the truth, then rumor will find its way in. Being proactive is far better than trying to catch up with a lie that has a head start.

Ha - Sounds like its right out of your PR books! And it is so incredibly true.

HAHAHA, I live this stuff now. This was one of the issues we had during the BP/Deepwater Horizon oil spill response. There was a lot of misinformation, but the Obama administration reps at DHS weren't comfortable giving the responders the ability to actually engage…. so the void filled with lies and rumors and we could do nothing to correct it.
 
DS was in a "hot" company as a plebe, next door to the 1SG. I'd hear prouncements here and elsewhere about cadet life/experiences that just seemed flat out inaccurate relative to his. Then he scrambled to a "chill" company in a remote barracks, and you'd think he was at a different school! Almost to the point of culture shock.

So many of the "half truths" alluded to in earlier posts were really just different cadet experiences.

We can go back to the horror stories. Just recognize there are also positive counterexamples you don't hear about, for some specific reasons.

One of the things many of us non-military parents are learning is how the experience can differ between squadrons at the USAFA. Some squadrons are very "Huah" while others are more "Chillax." Some have a great cohesion while others are very dysfunctional. It really all depends on what upper level cadets are in charge. For instance, the Cadet Wing Command decided to make very difficult and unreasonable k-tests (basically, the entire c4c wing would fail. other c2c and c1c complained and said these are unreasonable. the entire c4c wing failing is not a tradition, but an anomaly). Some squadron cadre were "look we know you are trying your hardest, these are difficult tests. keep pushing forward and we will help and support you. Others said you are restricted and we will give you an honor violation if this continues, and we are going to go hard core old school." (I paraphrase in the quotes, but it is the point) Different approach to a difficult situation. Also, squadron leadership changes each semester, so within a squadron the "culture" could change one way or the other each semester.

Social media has been an educational experience for me, as I find the USAFA works differently than I thought it would. I definitely have a better insight into what my son is experiencing and thus I am better able to understand and support him.
 
…. so the void filled with lies and rumors and we could do nothing to correct it.

Think you might have hit the nail on the head with some of these helo-parents LITS. They were such a part of their DS/DD lives and now that they've gone away there is a void and these lies/rumors/half-truths fill the void and they feel the need to land and rescue their DS/DD.

What I would like to know from those of you which had to deal with this during their careers if once those helo parents land and realize it's bad intel and get burned for it do they keep hovering or do they pull back? Have you guys had to deal with the same parent twice in a row?

Sorry for the extend use of the landing analogy! I just want ot make sure that this thread stays light and people don't start turning on each other!
 
One of the things many of us non-military parents are learning is how the experience can differ between squadrons at the USAFA. Some squadrons are very "Huah" while others are more "Chillax." Some have a great cohesion while others are very dysfunctional. It really all depends on what upper level cadets are in charge. For instance, the Cadet Wing Command decided to make very difficult and unreasonable k-tests (basically, the entire c4c wing would fail. other c2c and c1c complained and said these are unreasonable. the entire c4c wing failing is not a tradition, but an anomaly). Some squadron cadre were "look we know you are trying your hardest, these are difficult tests. keep pushing forward and we will help and support you. Others said you are restricted and we will give you an honor violation if this continues, and we are going to go hard core old school." (I paraphrase in the quotes, but it is the point) Different approach to a difficult situation. Also, squadron leadership changes each semester, so within a squadron the "culture" could change one way or the other each semester.

Social media has been an educational experience for me, as I find the USAFA works differently than I thought it would. I definitely have a better insight into what my son is experiencing and thus I am better able to understand and support him.

100% agree MombaBomba. FB is a good resource for information and that's why I joined some of the groups so I can learn and have info on things. I guess my problem (and over it thanks to you guys) with FB isn't the sharing of the information it was how that information was being used and at what lengths parents would go. And after some of these stories I sure as hell shouldn't be complaining about what the parents are saying on FB! It's the ones that are calling that scare me.
 
One of the things many of us non-military parents are learning is how the experience can differ between squadrons at the USAFA. Some squadrons are very "Huah" while others are more "Chillax." Some have a great cohesion while others are very dysfunctional. It really all depends on what upper level cadets are in charge. For instance, the Cadet Wing Command decided to make very difficult and unreasonable k-tests (basically, the entire c4c wing would fail. other c2c and c1c complained and said these are unreasonable. the entire c4c wing failing is not a tradition, but an anomaly). Some squadron cadre were "look we know you are trying your hardest, these are difficult tests. keep pushing forward and we will help and support you. Others said you are restricted and we will give you an honor violation if this continues, and we are going to go hard core old school." (I paraphrase in the quotes, but it is the point) Different approach to a difficult situation. Also, squadron leadership changes each semester, so within a squadron the "culture" could change one way or the other each semester.

Social media has been an educational experience for me, as I find the USAFA works differently than I thought it would. I definitely have a better insight into what my son is experiencing and thus I am better able to understand and support him.

And this goes for operational forces too. Every unit down to the smallest element in each Service is different... some for the good and some for the not so good. Alot of it is personality driven on likes and dislikes. This isn't any different than outside the military either. A fire team in one squad could be great and the fire team standing next to them in the same squad could hate life. It all depends. You could have the exact same job on a ship/squadron/battalion and PCS and hate it. I guess that is the beauty or the angst of the military. The SAs are a leadership lab and the upperclass are learning to lead, while Plebes/Knobs/etc are learning to follow. Some Cadets get it right and others don't. They will learn that idle threats such as honor offenses are not good leadership. Patting them on the head and telling them that it will be ok might be too light... I don't know. There is a happy medium and Cadets are learning how to find that to motivate their troops, earn their subordinates trust, and learning when to push and when to let up.
 
Boozebin, I know you started this thread based on the AP test "waste" the parent complained about, but come on, what about the mom who got a call on Doolie Day Out about her DS losing his retainer and the mom wanting to know how he could get out of Jack's Valley to go to an orthodontist and get a new one? I thought the responses were suprisingly very kind but predict a very LONG 4 years for that mom.
 
100% agree MombaBomba. FB is a good resource for information and that's why I joined some of the groups so I can learn and have info on things. I guess my problem (and over it thanks to you guys) with FB isn't the sharing of the information it was how that information was being used and at what lengths parents would go. And after some of these stories I sure as hell shouldn't be complaining about what the parents are saying on FB! It's the ones that are calling that scare me.

Were you around for the "got to do something about boxing because it is unsafe petition" that some parents pushed because they heard of another kid getting and/or their kid got a concussion during boxing? Eventually, a letter regarding boxing, its purpose and how it is run was distributed via news letters and parent groups. I can't remember if this response was from General Johnson or Williams.

Boozebin, I know you started this thread based on the AP test "waste" the parent complained about, but come on, what about the mom who got a call on Doolie Day Out about her DS losing his retainer and the mom wanting to know how he could get out of Jack's Valley to go to an orthodontist and get a new one? I thought the responses were suprisingly very kind but predict a very LONG 4 years for that mom.

I read them. And I took it all as mom being very worried and concerned. She asked is it possible and how to address this. Part of this worry is probably due to the whole BCT cut off from communication. Perhaps they spent 10K on braces and are seeing the money go down the drain. To me, this implies she is new and doesn't understand the military or how the USAFA works. There are going to be a lot of those type questions in the future, especially with health care issues (Tricare is such a joy <heavy sarcasm>). When they ask can I? or may I? or how does this work?, those to me scream newbie military parents like me. It's when they go "lets get a petition going" or "I am calling the AOC/AMT" or other such action that my eyebrows go up to my hair line.

I think, in the future, the packing list might want to include "extra retainer" if one is needed.
 
This has been an interesting thread, makes me wonder "Who are some of these parents" I try not to jump right in to believing most parents operate from a Helicopter, but hearing about those that actually make calls to the command or ignite a Congressional Review, well that's just a few steps off the deep end.

I guess we were lucky being from the ROTC side, there was no Parents facebook page of any parents group, so there was really no source of rumor other then what our cadets would tell us, when they told us anything at all.

Over the seven years we had sons in the program I can only remember one time I actually made a phone call. My older son was heading for LDAC, the battalion HR was late in sending his travel orders for the follow on training to Ft. Bragg and then back to school, he was due to leave Bragg 2 days before school started. We were going to already be at school since our younger son was starting that year. Our son said to watch for the orders because he had them sent home since he was no longer at school. This was when they still took their phones away at LDAC.

The orders arrived, we looked at them to make sure they said whet he told us they were supposed to say. Well, there was a mistake, they had him flying from Bragg back to his home town instead of back to school. We thought about what to do, we could wait and tell him after LDAC but it may be harder to get the right flight by then, or we could try and track him down at LDAC, that was something I did not want to do. I decided to call the HRC at his battalion and let her know the error, she was thankful we called early and was able to make the changes that day.

I relayed this story in a thread on this board regarding Helicopter Parents a few years ago and was chastised for being one of the worse Helicopter parents because I messed with his orders. I only bring this up because there are times when you may be able to help that doesn't cross any lines. To be honest this is something I would have done for anyone, had nothing to do with being a helicopter parent. Had we waited and not called they said they would not have been able to get him back to school by air, it is a small college town. Once he commissioned we were out of the loop completely, heck we barely know when and where he's going anywhere and he's on his own if anything is messed up.

To be honest I'm glad we never had a parents group or facebook page, it was much better to just hear it from our son, give what little advice we could and wish him luck. I must say though that some of the stories he would tell us would make us either laugh or simply shake our heads, but we always understood there was nothing we could or should do about it. In the end, most of the best stories came from being in the Fraternity.
 
There are some really good suggestions and stories in this thread. LITS observation on the change is relationship is straight on, along with those of Grunt, Hoops, Pima Sledge. All who have been down path. USNA1985 story on Sec Lehman is great.

DS is oldest of our 4 and first to head out. One of his favorite quotes (below) has taken on a whole new meaning as we have entered this new chapter of our lives:

“Badger: In summation, I think you just got to not do it, man. That's all.
Mr. Fox: I understand what you're saying, and your comments are valuable, but I'm gonna ignore your advice.”

We have tried, and are still trying, to impart reason in our children’s thought processes. Evaluate all the alternatives and choose the best option-which may not be the easiest or bring you the quickest reward. Always said most successes have come only after initial failures. We are fairly competitive family and I never let the kids beat me at anything-when they won it was because they were better. Well 3/4 have beat me in many things now- I can still take the 10 year old, but he is getting pretty fast. Summary they have learned from failure, and anger is an energy.

Remember when I left for the Corps at 18 my father (Korea veteran; Uncles WWII) advice was: keep your mouth shut; jump when Sgt. tells you to; and choose your friends very carefully. I did actually listen, no regular phone calls, and a few letters. All worked out, if not always smoothly. DS leaves for AROTC orientation next month, and advice I plan is: keep your mouth shut, do what they tell you to do; and choose your friends carefully. Also will add PT is the value currency at this point. I shutter at the thought of my parents, or any parents, attempting to run interference in civilian chain or calling up college professors about grade, or job issues. But to attempt to interfere in military chain of command. IMHO they are not doing their children, or themselves, any favors.
 
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