VP Nomination

[1964BGO]

As you might guess, the VP noms are managed by the individual academies.

In one instance the candidate was an exceptional young man who was active in the local CAP and had attained the highest cadet rank available. He had a high GPA but not top of the stack, SAT/ACT were in the middle acceptable range, he lettered in varsity sports (football and baseball), and participated in church related programs. He had applied to NA and AFA. Somehow he came away with no nom to either academy in spite of his credentials. Both academies selected him for an appointment and activated his VP noms - he accepted AFA. In the second instance the candidate was less obviously a solid contender, but well qualified nontheless. He had a nom to one of the academies, but not to NA; NA selected him and activated the VP nom for him and he accepted.

Sincerely, there is no good reason for the candidates NOT applying for the VP nom, especially if they are from a reasonably competitive area and/or they are applying to more than one of the SA's. The amount of additional work is nominal, and it just might be the way they get into a SA. My personal feeling is that a prospect who doesn't make every effort to maximize his position is fooling himself/herself, and tends to be asking for high anxiety in the spring. Just my opinion though, and what would I know...

 

[Whistle Pig]

Ah- missed that so, yes, the grandkid of the 4-star would not get a Presidential.

Call me naive - but I'd like to think that the Admissions Committee would not kowtow to a x-Star.

Ok.

 

[Whistle Pig]

As you might guess, the VP noms are managed by the individual academies.

In one instance the candidate was an exceptional young man who was active in the local CAP and had attained the highest cadet rank available. He had a high GPA but not top of the stack, SAT/ACT were in the middle acceptable range, he lettered in varsity sports (football and baseball), and participated in church related programs. He had applied to NA and AFA. Somehow he came away with no nom to either academy in spite of his credentials. Both academies selected him for an appointment and activated his VP noms - he accepted AFA. In the second instance the candidate was less obviously a solid contender, but well qualified nontheless. He had a nom to one of the academies, but not to NA; NA selected him and activated the VP nom for him and he accepted.

Sincerely, there is no good reason for the candidates NOT applying for the VP nom, especially if they are from a reasonably competitive area and/or they are applying to more than one of the SA's. The amount of additional work is nominal, and it just might be the way they get into a SA. My personal feeling is that a prospect who doesn't make every effort to maximize his position is fooling himself/herself, and tends to be asking for high anxiety in the spring. Just my opinion though, and what would I know...

Yea, what would you know ... Thanks for sharing. Good stuff!

One more question? Out of curiosity, how long a BGO? How many candidates have you processed?

 

[AJM7680]

it is disingenuous, even if dejure, to imply that VP noms are available to all. Only in theory. Reality check.

I'm not sure if you are attempting to hijack the thread for your own personal agendas or simply do not understand the method by which alternates are selected. 1964BGO is referring to VP appointments. Yes, there is only one or two per year. Yes, needle in a haystack. Yes, manna from heaven. However, VP nominations do not end there. They also do much more. Every qualified candidate who applies for a VP is placed on the Academy's alternate list. From this alternate list, probably around a third of the class is selected annually. They are selected by order of merit. There are restrictions on all alternates other than those from MOC slates, but, if their WPM is adequate, they will have a shot.

 

[AJM7680]

In West Point admissions world-
The VP nom is treated as a Congressional nom.

I am really curious as to how you can make this statement.

First off, US Code, specifically lists three separate categories, one for the VP, one for each of the two Senators in each state, and one for Repreasentatives. A partial list:

2)Five nominated at large by the Vice President or, if there is no Vice President, by the President pro tempore of the Senate.

(3)Ten from each State, five of whom are nominated by each Senator from that State.

(4)Five nominated by each Representative in Congress.

(5)Five from the District of Columbia, nominated by the Delegate to the House of Representatives from the District of Columbia.

(6)Three from the Virgin Islands, nominated by the Delegate in Congress from the Virgin Islands.

(7)Six from Puerto Rico, five of whom are nominated by the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico and one who is a native of Puerto Rico nominated by the Governor of Puerto Rico.

(8)Three from Guam, nominated by the Delegate in Congress from Guam.

Therefore, when the following statement is made:

Each Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress, including the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico, is entitled to nominate 10 persons for each vacancy that is available to him under this section.

it does not include the specific category attributed to the VP.

Also, when the alternates are discussed and how they fit into the standby selection process, categories (2) and (3) are definitely different than category (1). If the VP was to be considered a member of congress, would he not specifically be an addendum to category (2)?

In general, all slates, especially those selected by the SA, must be competitive. How would the 9 VP alternates be selected? By order of merit? If so, would the 9 most competive names on the VPs alternate slate probaably not also be among the most competitive candidates in the entire country? How many of them would need a VP alternate? Very few, if any. The process would be useless. If they worked down the list of those applying for a VP until they arrived at 9 candidates who needed the VP nomination, would not all the candidates nationwide who applied for a VP above the last cutoff for the ninth individual, also, de facto (I like that word), be, in essence, on the list?

More than likely, WP only goes down the list far enough to get 10 or so names because, historically, that will meet their needs. By definition, the vast majority of those competitive in the national pool also receive a MOC nomination and ten additional nominations would probably more than cover their needs. Anything else is an assumption on someone's part.

 

[Whistle Pig]

This is the classic Ph.D. thesis on VP nominations exposed. More and more and more about less and less and less until we humbly and gratefully know everything about nothing. I smell a refereed journal article in here somewhere.

 

[Rebel91]

A Ph.D. is not required. LOA + VP Nom = Appointment.

When I read Whistle Pig's sarcastic and insulting posts regarding USNA's admissions policy/program, I only think of Teddy Roosevelt's famous quote: "It is not the critic who counts,..." and realize he has yet to offer any actual military service which may lend credibility to his rants. Whistle Pig stirs the pot and likes to critique the fact the USNA gets to decide the make-up of incoming classes -- I wonder why?

 

[AJM7680]

If everyone who applies receives a nomination, then everyone who receives an LOA stating that an appointment is guaranteed contingent on a nomination would be in, assuming they had applied for the VP nom. I'm confused.

Alternate lists must only be filled after the mandatory/primary/principal sources have already been exercised. Note the wordage to fill the restricted list that includes the VPs:

If it is determined that, upon the admission of a new class to the Academy

So, only as a second measure can the alternate lists be filled, the restricted even more so. Admissions will probably go out on the limb for a few from the primary alternate but will hold in reserve until a later date, those from ther VP list. What if the ever present fear of an emergency act of congress, due to budgetary reasons, reduced the incoming class immediately by 50%, happened tomorrow. Read US Code. It is in there. All the waiting list appointments would be eliminated.