Well Well Well

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by tug_boat, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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  2. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Civilian clothes at the morning colors with no one else around except someone with a camera? This was really staged. What a jerk. Now they can't kick her out for poor grades because it might be considered racist or like a quarterback who might have been cut or traded for poor performance. I stood at attention for a number of national anthems which were not my own and I expect any military member to do also.
     
  3. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    Please educate me. Is it required by regulation to stand for the national anthem when not in uniform?
     
  4. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ Member

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    Military folks are in the military 24/7, bound by all rules and regulations and subject to the UCMJ, regardless of what they are wearing or where they are.
     
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  5. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    According to the provisions of the law when out of uniform they "may" not salute but should stand and render respect.
     
  6. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    Under UCMJ she is not a private citizen but in the military and she took an oath. She could be court martialed. She know the rules. She also made a political jester which is a big no no.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
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  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Since she has decided that she can no longer support the flag or anthem, and won't be forced to, I can't wait to see what she does when she is in formation and uniform the next time.

    "It basically says, ‘land of the free and home of the brave' except for hirelings [and slaves], and I just can't support anything like that,”
    I wonder if she has ever read the third verse from the anthem which was basically removed years ago.

    I could care less whether anyone sits or stands. what gets me is that this has become more about the right to sit or stand then it has about any cause. To me this is just another case of Slacktivism, "I'm not really going to spend any time and energy trying to make things better for people, but hey, I did sit during the anthem so I did my part right....and if I feel real energetic I'll post something to facebook or twitter, that'll fix everything"

    I have a great deal of respect for those that work hard everyday to make people's lives better.....This? not so much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  8. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    I don't think a political gesture while not in uniform is illegal under UCMJ. I do have a suggestion though.

    All those at graduation at

    Great Lakes, San Antonio, Paris Island, San Diego, Fort Benning, Fort Jackson, Leonard Wood, Fort Sill and Fort Knox take a knee at the playing. Maybe take a vote. Would be fun to hear the DIs.
     
  9. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American

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    See if she cashes that government check when it arrives. Perhaps she should tear it up in protest.

    Ingrate.
     
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  10. AROTC Parent

    AROTC Parent Member

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    AF6879 - I am not sure your quote is correct. You added the word 'not' to the 4 US Code. This was updated in 2008 to allow Veterans and Service Members to salute when not in uniform.
    Link -
    §9. Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag
    During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.
    Bold is mine.
     
  11. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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  12. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    So to answer my question above,

    Navy rules state that troops must stand and face the flag when the National Anthem is played. Troops in uniform must salute, while troops not in uniform must stand at attention and place the right hand over the heart. These rules mean that her behavior could fall afoul of Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, failure to obey a lawful general order or regulation.
     
  13. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    No. She is a political jester.

    And a clown.

    And a potty mouth.
     
  14. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    I think it states that Veterans under the appropriate cover of their former service (or VFW or American Legion covers) may stand at attention and salute or should as all others, stand at attention and remove whatever cover and place it over their left breast while the Flag passes on parade or the National Anthem is played . Current active military out of uniform do not salute but do render respect in an appropriate manner. As I said before she is a jerk out for some quick internet crap. Then again I have been at many sporting events where the jerk in front of me will not even remove his team cap ( I always stand for Oh Canada and after all these years I even know the words). Then again we who served are a very small percentage of the population. At least sometimes they stand. I think it is violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ on her part. Yeah, loved her language as a spokesperson for her way out there position "I think she is stating: I am near graduation and they can't touch me no matter what my class standing is now"
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  15. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I will never salute, now, out of uniform.... No matter how much they try to make it acceptable for veterans.
     
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  16. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    WARNING: Old-guy comment coming...

    AF6872: I shudder to think how the customs, courtesies, civics and common decency standards have devolved over my lifetime. The military seems to be one of the few bastions holding firm on most of them. But even there, the rules of etiquette are softening. This past weekend, my DS (2nd LT USMC) was describing an event at his Commanding Officer's house. I asked if Officers still left calling cards when they attended an event like this. He had no clue what I was talking about. Yet, when I was at TBS, we had a customs and courtesies course where this ritual was explained and afterwards we all had to order calling cards ( I still have some!). Still, on balance, the military holds to more of these customs and courtesies than the general public. It sets us apart and distinguishes us in a good way. I think it is one of the reasons you can usually spot someone who has served in the military. That is also why we react so strongly when someone who is in the military fails to follow those customs - particularly those covered by regulation.
     
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  17. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Thank God my son in law is a Marine Pilot. Would not want this person on the ground in any capacity.
     
  18. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    I never salute but I do remove my cap and/or place my open hand over my left breast. I gave up saluting a long time ago. Holly Crap! Calling Card! White Gloves and card in the dish. I was not an Officer but I do remember my friends telling of the routine. DD, Captain USMC, had no idea what a calling card was when arriving at a new base. Things do change and evolve but there is always the bond. "We few we happy few we band of brothers". I think TBS gave up on the courtesy course. I think it is all sweat, blood, get me out of this rain and wind and God I need some sleep. But they do know every tree, gully and stream in Quantico by its first name.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  19. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    When the young sailor realizes that Washington was a slave owner and that Lincoln wanted to send freed slaves back to Africa, she will no doubt refuse to take the day off on Presidents' Day. Out of principle.
     
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  20. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    We had calling cards at TBS and a customs and courtesies course. Not sure I ever used my calling cards after TBS and I still do have nearly all 500 they made us order. We had customs and courtesies courses at USNA so didn't learn anything new at TBS. To be honest the course was like 2 hours long and horrible. It was taught by a nice lady who taught etiquette to pageant contestants and debutantes. She couldn't answer the questions we had like how to introduce a spouse or significant other who was also Active Duty, if the other couple was both active duty or what to do if one was if a rank higher in either scenario. In her mind it will still 1952 and couldn't grasp women were in the military too. At USNA we actually had hands on classes where we were served formal meals, practice the intros, etc. We also had company classes prior to dining ins and outs.
     
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