West Point and AP

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by jwizzle11, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. jwizzle11

    jwizzle11 Member

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    Does west point ask for your AP scores. Is it mandatory to give them?
     
  2. Art.Perea

    Art.Perea Member

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    Well of course you want to send them to WP, but that isn't until after the evaluation period. Besides, you can't test out of classes anyways. Even if you get a 5 on your AP test (or 7 on IB) and ace the SAT subject test, they will just put you in a harder version of the class.
     
  3. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    I'll have to find it, but I've posted specifics on validating classes.

    Some courses you will be moved to the next in the series (Math, History). Others will just place you in the advanced class. (Chemistry)

    AP scores rarely will allow validation alone, you are also tested during beast. That combined with AP scores will drive their decision. From memory, there are a couple that will allow validation based solely on 4 or 5 on AP score.

    Just as an FYI, For many classes USMA "stacks" them with cadets of similar capability based on the validation tests.

    And you may be moved up or down in specific class sections mid-semester based on how you are performing. Start acing tests, you will likely be moved to harder sections. (Same class, just different section/teacher).

    Seems a bit unfair at first, as it can impact your GPA. But then you realize the Army's goal is not to graduate cadets with high GPA, it's to produce the best officers it can. If you are not challenged in a class, you will be moved to one that does.
     
  4. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    There are two links I'm aware of on this topic
    http://www.dean.usma.edu/AP/
    http://www.dean.usma.edu/departments/math/courses/ma255/acmp_info_page.htm

    The short version: AP's scores are used by faculty as one source of data in your validation decisions. 4+ appears to be where they start to help in most cases, but even 3's are considered for some. And for a few classes, it appears that very high AP scores (5) can result in direct validation.

    You will still have to take a full load, you just get to take classes required later or in some cases advanced tracks, etc.

    But read the website it's quite specific.

    Also, here is an excellent post from a 2014 plebe on validation/AP's:

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showpost.php?p=191835&postcount=7
     
  5. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Hmm. That's a unique approach. It might be better to do away with GPA as a metric in that case. Inasmuch as GPA is undoubtedly an important component of the OMS, a 3.5 GPA in elementary classes would give an "elementary" cadet more OMS points than a 3.3 GPA in advanced classes would give an "advanced" cadet. Something right there just doesn't seem ... logical, and sets the door wide open for a cadet, taking into account the natural human tendency to avoid pain whenever possible, to do just well enough in a class (high B, low A) to avoid the pain of getting bumped to a harder one :)

    sounds a little like a form of government we opposed during the Cold War that .... ah, never mind. I try to avoid political arguments as they get me too worked up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    But they don't just look at GPA. The look at the courses offerred in your high School to see if you took as many as possible of the advanced courses that were available. Besides, most of these kids would love to be placed in the "honors" classes. Academic challenge and excellence is what many of them were all about in high school (along with other was of exceling). There'a another thread somewhere that talks about GPA nirmalization and I have no doubt the academies do some form of this.
     
  7. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    Yep, why I said it seems unfair. But the needs of the Army....

    Happened in two classes last fall for a cadet I know. Was tracking to A+ in both, got moved up, had to fight hard for A-. Funny thing, he was OK with being more challenged, just would have preferred not to have taken a gpa hit.

    Then again, for overall merit score further statistical manipulation is done to the individual cadet academic, physical, and military scores which has the effect of leveling the group.
     
  8. USMA2016

    USMA2016 Appointee - Class of 2016

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    I really want to validate chemistry and move right into physics. I took college-prep chemistry and AP chemistry my sophomore year with straight A's, I got a 780 on the chem subject test, and a 5 on the AP chem exam. Do you think it'll be possible?
     
  9. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    They don't like to validate cadets out of chem usually, but they do let a few skip. It will come down to how you do on the placement exam in CBT along w your AP score.
     
  10. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    My understanding is that there is not much validating of chemistry, just placement in advanced or regular. (but there may be exceptions, who knows)

    Strong math score and testing during beast can shorten the math track by one semester, and history one, maybe even two. But you'll still take a full load plebe year.

    Remember, testing during beast has a big impact. And it's done in the middle when you are wiped out. So believe it or not, fitness & being used to an early sleep routine can help. Likely won't make your tests magic, but fatigue can sure hurt validation testing.
     

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