What Are My Chances?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ballsy, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. ballsy

    ballsy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    So I am a Sophmore in High school and have set my mind on becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Army so that the experience I recieve can help me get into the FBI (I have talked in depth with an FBI agent and know what I should do to get in). So I got a 3.9 GPA last year and have almost the same GPA this year so far. I did football last year and this year, and I am going to do track next year. I am going to do FBLA next year and senior year. I want to take the ASVAB this year and next year so I can get a higher score the second time around. I want to take the ROTC courses in college at ISU possibly. If I got a 28 on the ACT and around a 85-90% on the ASVAB, what do you think my chances of getting a 4 year ROTC scholarship?
     
  2. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    284
    Not certain about your chances overall, but there is no requirement to take the ASVAB in order to apply for an ROTC scholarship - that is for enlisting only. You would be better off using that time to prep and retake the ACT and raise that score.
     
  3. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    1
    That`s awesome! But leadership is also important.

    30+ is an especially good score to shoot for. Also take the SAT.
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    5
    Well, short answer is your chances would be good.

    Best to concentrate at this time on the three things that you will be scored on in your Application in two years:

    1) Scholar = SAT or ACT score, Class Rank/GPA, and difficulty of course load
    2) Athlete = Varsity letters or evidence of athleticism and fitness on a Club or Travel team. Ability to do lots of situps and pushups in a 60 second time, and get a good time in the Mile run.
    3) Leader: Captain of team, Pres/VP of Student Council, Editor of Yearbook, etc. Leadership role in Extra-Curricular activities, but the first three examples are weighted more.

    Do your own self-assessment of your performance in each of those three areas, and improve wherever you can.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    First off, your ASVAB score will have nothing to do with getting a scholarship, it's not even required for the application.

    Your grades look good and you have a good start on your ACT, keep studying, higher is always better.

    You mentioned athletics, are you on Varsity in either of the sports. Varsity is a big plus.

    Leadership is also very important to have a well balanced application. Are you a member of any clubs or orgaizations, if so do you hold a leadership position in any of them. Are you in Boy Scouts at all.

    The scholarship boards look at the whole person and you are scrored on Academics/Leadership/Athletics

    If your school has a Yearbook class, see if you can become the Editor in Chief, if not at least an Editor of a section. It may not sound like much but when my younger son interviewed with both AROTC and NROTC/MO both stopped while reading his application and made the comment "Editor in Chief of the Yearbook, that's going to help" He received his scholarship on the first board. So you can see how important these positions can be.

    Leadership can also come from outside school opportunities, Leader of a Youth Group, YMCA Youth in Government, and so on. Seek out opportunites to show your leadership skills in activities you enjoy doing.

    Just remember, to get a scholarship you will need to be well rounded in all three categories.

    Keep up the good work in school.

    EDIT: Wow you guys type a lot faster then I do. All great advice.
     
  6. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    607
    Joining the military simply as a means to get to another job is a terrible idea. If your only reason for serving is to eventually get a job with the FBI, you will be doing yourself and your soldiers an injustice.
     
  7. ballsy

    ballsy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    To ScoutPilot- Bull****. This FBI agent, who has been in for about 7-8 years, says that about 50% of the intelligence fielded agents had army intelligence experience. I am not JUST doing it to get into the FBI, but that is my main reason. It could also pay for college, and teach many skills such as discipline and leadership you can't find anywhere else.

    As for everyone else, no I am not on varsity. I do JV football, going to do track, and Junior and Senior year do the FBLA (Future Buisness Leader of America) progam at our school. If I scored high on the ASVAB, you don't think that would help my chances at all? I just want to take it, even if it doesn't help anything. A boy at our school said he got an 80% and he gets A's and B's, I usually get straight A's and feel like I could get a really high score if I took it a couple times. I am never been in boy scouts, our community doesn't offer one. Would having a part time job help? I am going to lifeguard at our local pool this summer. What other clubs or organizations would you recommend joining to increase my chances?
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,545
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Don't just join something to increase your chances. Join something you feel passionate about and then take a leadership position which you will naturally want to do. That's what will increase your chances.
     
  9. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    5
    ballsy --

    there is a difference between disagreeing with Scoutpilot, and crying "Bull****!".

    If you read carefully what he said, it including doing a disservice to YOURSELF. He is not against you. He is saying that 4 years of ROTC and 4-5 years of a job you might only just "tolerate" in order to get to the job you really want (FBI) is often actually ... intolerable. That would be torture for you, and the unlucky soldiers who have to take your orders.

    On the other hand, maybe you will dig being an Army Officer and will re-up after your initial service obligation. It's really hard to predict what a person will like several years in advance. but you've got to at least try to figure out what you want, and why.

    The point is, if the FBI were not at the end of your Army service, would you still want to be an Army officer? If so, great. If not, Scoutpilot is dead on accurate. Arrogance is an important part of leadership, so keep that, but drop the fool part that would call a current Army officer on "bull****".

    As for the ASVAB, do it if you want to, but it won't be part of your application file to ROTC. If you force include it in the Comments section of your app, the reader will either ignore it as irrelevant, or smile and think "what a tool".

    Oh, and in case you get the word on the SAT or ACT, you're not a sophmore, you're a sophOmore.

    Lastly, there is a difference between ballsy, and being an arrogant fool. Keep a part of the arrogance, as it is an important component of leadership, but drop the fool part that would call an active Army Officer and frequent contributor to this Board on "bull****".
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  10. ballsy

    ballsy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    1.) Sorry about my name being "ballsy". My last name is Waldinger, and instead of putting ballstothewaldinger, ballsy is easier and quicker to type.

    2.) I apologize for calling "bull****" on scoutpilot. I realize I shouldn't have done it and take responsibility for my arrogance and the fact that I was wrong.

    3.) Sophomore, yes I mispell it almost every time I try to spell it. It's one of those habits that I hard to break, I don't know why.

    I would like to take this opprotinity to apologize to anyone I may have dissastisfied. Anyway, I think I would enjoy being an Intelligence Officer. I want to be in the FBI/ Army because of a few key reasons.

    1.) Just the fact that if you have to tell someone what you do for a living, 99.99% of the time, you immediately earn their respect.

    2.) It also seems like a job that would give great experience for the FBI because they have similar qualities in the work content.

    3.) Many of my family members have served in the Armed Forces and I feel obligated to. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't want to. I am very excited and want to get anything done now that I can, like doing well on the ASVAB or joining more clubs.
     
  11. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    1
    About the sports thing---I think that a LOT of those who get the scholarship (Not sure the exact percentage) play -and letter- on a Varsity team. I`m not exactly sure about the numbers and percentages though.....kinnem, jcleppe, or others who have kids who are in/went through ROTC can elaborate more on that

    Second, sure, go ahead and take the ASVAB if it`ll make you feel better, but it`s a waste of time, in my opinion, because it won`t help you or hurt you....it`s for those enlisting. Not for those applying to ROTC or becoming officers. So if it makes you feel better, sure take it again, but it will not do anything.

    Take the SAT too. And get 30+ on the ACT, maybe 2000+ on the SAT. Higher, if possible.

    Leadership is also very important. Like they said above, do NOT do something just because it`ll look good on your application.

    My 2 cents worth.
     
  12. gojack

    gojack ....

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    2
    Average AROTC Scholarship Winner Stats (YR 2010)

    “The profile of this year's scholarship winners shows that;
    Class of 2014, 2,579 Army ROTC 4 year scholarships awarded

    Average high school grade-point average was 3.5
    Mean college board test score was 1186 SAT / 26 ACT

    96 percent were in the top 50 percent of their classes
    74 percent were in the top 25 percent of their classes
    39 percent were in the top 5 percent of their classes
    77 percent were varsity-letter winners
    53 percent were varsity team captains
    41 percent were National Honor Society members
    28 percent took part in Junior ROTC
    17 percent were involved in Scouting
    12 percent were student-body or senior-class presidents
    34 percent held other class offices
    8 percent were club presidents
     
  13. ballsy

    ballsy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    What do you guys mean by doing varsity sports? I am going to be playing varisty football and track next year because I will be an upperclassmen. I also led the team with my brother in workouts in the offseason. I'm sure all of my coaches would write a letter of recommendation for my hard work and determination. Also, do you think this would be enough activites:
    1.) Varsity football
    2.) Varsity Track
    3.) FBLA
    4.) Boys State
    5.) Yearbook maybe
     
  14. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    1
    OK, well I don`t think you made it clear that it was Varsity. If you did, sorry, I missed it. Are you planning on lettering in one or both?
     
  15. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    Ballsy,

    Ok here goes.

    First, your probably used to posting on boards that are filled with high school kids that dispense advice as if they know everything. That is not the case here, this board has a mix of Active Duty Officers, Prior Service, Current Cadets, Current ROTC Cadre members, and parents of cadets that have gone through the process. There is a lot you can learn from this site, the best advice I can give you is take it all in. You get a Pass for the Bull**** comment because your new and have no idea who you are talking to, but you only get one. For the record Scoutpilot is a current Army Aviator/Officer, a Captain I believe. Point is you have no idea who may be answering your questions so be respectful of everyone.

    This comment will raise a few eyebrows. While you explain why you would like to do ROTC, you leave out the main issue, 4 years of Active Duty (AD) or 8 years of Reserves. I would have to agree with Scout on this one, if your main reason is what you stated above then you should really think hard before applying for the scholarship.

    There are several things you need to consider, one of the most important is that you need to do some more research about the Army, ROTC, and Military Intelligence (MI).

    Just for an overview;

    Even if you get a scholarship there is no guarantee that you will commission or get AD. You will need to maintain certain minimums during ROTC to keep your scholarship and continue through ROTC and commission. AD is not guaranteed.

    In ROTC there is something called the OML (Order of Merit List) Your position on this list will determine what Branch you get. An Army Officer does not have a MOS, they have branches, there are 16 branches you can commission into from ROTC, MI is one of them. MI is also one of the harder branches to get.

    I'm not going to go into great detail of how the OML works but here is an overview.

    Your position on the OML is based on several things:
    GPA
    Physical Fitness APFT score
    Performance at LDAC
    PMS Review

    These are things you may not be familiar with which is why you need to do a lot more research into ROTC.

    At the beginning of your senior year in college and ROTC you will be ranked on the National OML that includes every cadet in the country. From that list many will ask for Reserves, the remaining will now go onto the AD OML. There will be more cadets on that list then there is AD slots available. Cadet Command will decide how may cadets will get AD and they will start the count at the top of the list and work down. When they get to the last AD slot available, every cadet below that line will be forced Reserves. This will leave the final AD OML, this is when branching starts.

    Branching in ROTC is confusing and too detailed to explain fully right now, again here is an overview.

    You make a wish list, first your top 3 choices, then the remaining 13. If you are in the top 10% on the AD OML you are guaranteed your #1 choice. Being in the top 10% is not easy, it means you have to be in the top 5% at least on the National ROTC OML, and that’s out of around 5600 cadets, again not easy to do. Being in the top 10% take a lot of hard work and even a little luck.

    If you are not in the top 10% then it becomes the needs of the Army. The higher you are the better your chances but again no guarantees. You can also be in the bottom 50% and have a chance but that’s another complicated story for another time.

    The point is you could complete College and ROTC and not get MI, it is a very real possibility you could branch Transportation, Chem Corps, Signal Corps, Ordinance, and so on. Now your in the Army for either 4 years AD/4 years IRR, or 8 years Reserves in a branch you did not want. If your only goal is to be in MI so you can pad your resume for the FBI, you’re taking an enormous risk, for yourself and the soldiers you would be leading. That’s what Scoutpilot was talking about.

    Have you even researched what the MI branch is like. Don’t select MI because you think you’ll be Jason Bourne or James Bond, it’s not like that at all. As a junior officer you will become very good at Power Point Presentations. The job of a MI Officer is a lot different then you might think.

    Another thing about the MI Branch. MI is often a control branch, meaning you may Branch MI but you would branch detailed to another branch, usually infantry, for 3 years. After the 3 years you would then go to MI Branch school, which means unless you extend your time you really won’t have any time in the MI Branch before you get out if getting out in 4 years is what you want to do., This won’t do much for you FBI Application.

    You need to join the Army because you want to join the Army. It’s fine to have goals for after you get out, not everyone wants to make the Army a career, but you need to want the Army for what it is first or you will be miserable.

    The best advice I can give you is to go to a university and make contact with the Cadre at the Army ROTC, talk to them, get as much information as you can on the program and how it works. You should also keep posting questions on this board, and read other posts, you will get a great deal of information by just reading related threads on this board. You have plenty of time to learn as much as you can so you can make a decision that’s right for you, and more important that would be right for any soldiers you might be leading in the future.

    One more thing, FORGET the ASVAB, you don’t need it, they don’t look at it, and your wasting time you could spend studying for the tests that do count, ACT/SAT. If you want to enlist take the ASVAB, if you want to become an officer then don’t.

    Hope you stick around and ask questions, there’s a lot you can learn here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  16. ballsy

    ballsy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Okay, I'll screw the ASVAB. So if I get into the ROTC, get a scholarship or not, and get a high grade throughout college, do you think I could get into MI after college as an officer? I really want this scholarship so my financial debts isn't a burden to my dad or me after college. I want to get experience and this experience is unparrelled by anyone else. Guys, I am not just going through this to get into the FBI. I want to do it because it is similar to what I would be doing in the FBI. I think I would like being an officer very much. I am excited and know that it would be an amazing experience. All at the same time, learning things that could help me getting into the FBi.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    Like I said before, if you are in the the top 5% on the National OML and the top 10% on the AD OML then you are guaranteed to get the branch you want, if that's MI then that's what you'll get.

    It's a lot more then just grades which will need to be good minimum of a 3.5 College GPA, you will need to get an "E" at LDAC, only around 17% of the cadets get an E. You will need a high APFT, 290 plus, and be at least toward the very top of your battalion. It's a lot of hard work.

    Realize if you get a scholarship, that once you start your sophomore year you are obligated to the Army. If after your sophomore year you do not meet the standards that would allow you to be in the top 10% you are stuck with whatever you get, you need to be OK with that before you accept the scholarship.

    It's understandable that you want to help money wise by getting the scholarship but you also need to know that there are several ways you can lose that scholarship while at school. If you do lose the scholarship you will be required to either enlist in the AD Army or pay back the entire amount of money you have received, and the choice is not yours, the Army decided and currently the Army has been requiring cadets to pay back the money. These are some of the things you need to be aware of before you apply for the scholarship, it comes with a lot of risk.

    I will say again, as a junior officer in MI don't expect to be doing what you would be doing in the FBI, it doesn't work like that at all. Again, think Power Points. You not going to e out skulking around the streets of Yemen collecting Intel or investigating.

    The main thing you need to realize is that it all comes down to the needs of the Army. You need to be prepared to do or be in whatever branch they put you in. The first goal of most of the people on this board is to become an Officer in the Military, Branch selection comes next, sure they all have an idea of what they want to do but that can change after a couple years in ROTC, you need to remain flexible or you will spend years being miserable in the Army.
     
  18. Roughrider

    Roughrider Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to the FBI agency website, openings exist only for agent applicants with what they call critical skills, meaning expertise in the following areas:

    Accounting
    Finance
    Computer Science/Information Technology Expertise
    Engineering Expertise
    Foreign Language(s) Proficiency
    Intelligence
    Law Experience
    Law Enforcement or Other Investigative Experience
    Accounting

    Look very carefully at the focus on the above: that's a lot of office work. Putting aside the dubious value of getting "respect" from people who bestow it immediately just on the basis of what you tell them you do for a living (seriously; do you really care what such people think of you?), if you're bored by computers, or law, or finance, then no job title will command enough instant "respect" to compensate for being, basically, an accountant or a lawyer. If you're not bored by one of those things, then great; you can pursue a college degree in one of them and get into the FBI that way.

    Also worth noting:

    (emphasis mine.)

    Now, I have no idea what they mean by "positive intelligence", but I do understand "substantial" to entail more than powerpoint presentations. Shooting for a commission out of ROTC and getting a slot in military intelligence, challenging as that is, might not be sufficient to qualify for a candidacy. The good news is that there's more than one road to Rome. You could get a degree in international studies or international finance with an emphasis on one of the languages/cultures of particular interest to the FBI, and also apply under this category.

    Don't box yourself in to limited options until you've really examined the day to day nuts and bolts of your ambitions, and considered all the possible ways to achieve your goals.

    Wishing you success,
    RR
     
  19. Roxymom

    Roxymom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    10
    To jcleppe and roughrider- much thanks to the time spent on this thread. This was our dinner conversation with DS last night. Now he 'll have all the accurate specifics .
    I feel like I hit the jackpot with this forum.
     
  20. gojack

    gojack ....

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    2
    ballsy,

    Back to your original question about chances for a scholarship...
    Carefully look over the current interview form HERE to see how you stack up (you want 40 points in all three categories)

    Using a stint in the military as a stepping stone to another career, you are not the first to have the thought, but that's 10 years in the future, a lot can change - to make it through 4 yrs of AROTC and then excel for at least 4 yrs in the service will require your complete dedication. As an Army officer, your men will be literally putting their lives in your hands, having a backup plan for life after the military makes sense - but if you are serious about being a Army officer, put those ideas aside, there is lots of time for those plans later.

    For now, you need a 3.0+ GPA, a SAT/ACT 1100/24+, a couple Honors/AP classes, and leadership experience.

    Pick a college where you are in the top of your entering class, that will help your scholarship chances and you also need to do very well in college to move on to the next step.

    BTW, using phrases like bull****, screw etc., make it sound like you could use a little work improving your vocabulary, :biggrin: which would also help you on the SAT :wink: leave the cursing to the Drill Sergeants, the phrase is Officer AND a Gentleman.:thumb:
     

Share This Page