What do I do next (2nd application?)

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by AFAplease, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. AFAplease

    AFAplease Appointee

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    So currently I'm on the waiting list. I have been accepted to several schools, some of which have AFROTC, but I missed the AFROTC deadline for scholarships.

    My main question is how are second year applications looked at differently?

    Does the academy mix in your college grades with high school grades and then just review your same application from last year?

    I know that I should probably join some more athletic groups and continue to have active leadership and service but since I am a qualified candidate this year, having met all of the academy's requirements, do I basically have a good shot at getting in next year just for the sheer fact that it will be my second time applying?

    Also what are the key benefits of a USAFA education vs. ROTC?

    Thanks, this is a tough time for me and I am just trying to figure out what I can be doing to set myself up for success.
     
  2. AFcdt2013

    AFcdt2013 Member

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    Hey I didn’t get in my first year either. I received the "qualified, no vacancy" letter last year.

    I am currently at Baylor U. and I am in ROTC. I reapplied to the academy and received my appointment in October. I've been told that the academy loves to see people that reapply. It really shows that they want it. I definitely recommend doing ROTC. I know it is really going to help me at the academy.

    As far as the application goes, you have to redo everything. It kind of sucks, but get it done early.

    If you really want it, don't give up.
     
  3. Roman

    Roman Member

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    When did you get your application complete?
    Did you use HS or college teacher recommendations?
    How were you nominated?
    Did you get a LOA the second time round?

    Thank you!

    I'm in the same boat as you two.
     
  4. AFcdt2013

    AFcdt2013 Member

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    I finished my application in august. I used HS teachers. I was nominated through my ROTC det. I was going to get an LOA, but right before they were going to send it out, I was nominated by my ROTC det. So, i just got the appointment.

    If you have any other questions, just let me know.
     
  5. Roman

    Roman Member

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    Well if you got your appointment that soon, that would mean that the Academy didn't even look at your college grades, correct? So did anything change on your application or did being a second time applicant make that much of a difference?

    Thank you.
     
  6. USAFA hopeful

    USAFA hopeful Member

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    I recommend getting to know the cadre (the officers) at your detachment very well. They can write you recommendation letters that outweigh the impact of any teacher's. Also, try and get involved in ROTC. Join Arnold Air Society. This will prepare you even better for the academy. hope that helps
     
  7. AFcdt2013

    AFcdt2013 Member

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    yea they hadnt looked at my college grades yet. I might have added 1 or 2 more things to my application, but not much.
     
  8. AFAplease

    AFAplease Appointee

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    ROTC officers can write recommendations?

    My problem will be the teacher recommendations, my last math class was last year (11th grade). And I'm not sure if I will have my next one in fall semester of freshman year (college) or not. Asking my teacher who barely knew me to write me a recommendation (a student from 2 years ago) would be a little sketchy.

    I also have the same question as Roman, what changed on your application?

    Thanks for all of your help!
     
  9. airstriker

    airstriker Member

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    I am in the same boat. I did not get accepted last year because I was not a citizen yet. I reasony again this year and got my nomination. I used my high school teachers. I got a congressional nomination. I am attending air force ROTC and I really want it because of the leadership and followship you get. As far as education goes the AFA is the way to go but ROTC is best too. AFA is the elite out there when it comes to training and education. Apply again and it will work on your advantage when you join ROTC and trust me. Future officers always find ways and they have contigency plan. Do nor give up hope. Anyway I am aril waiting for my appointment letter that is if I got in. Bug hopefully it it is a good news. Hang in there and do not give up.
     
  10. AFcdt2013

    AFcdt2013 Member

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    i think i added that i was captain of my high school soccer team senior year and i was a student of the month my senior year. i'm pretty sure that is all i added.
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    AFAplease; you've gotten very good info here. The academy will take the information you have at the time you submit it. If you finish the next application by the end of July; then obviously they aren't using your college classes. But at the end of the 1st semester (Around Christmas); if you haven't received an LOA/Appointment, then definitely send transcripts to the academy.

    As for the question of; what are the key benefits of an AF Academy education compared to an ROTC. 1st; there's no such thing as an ROTC education. The education is from the school you attend. ROTC just happens to be an activity that you belong to. And in some circumstances, that activity will give you a scholarship to pay for your education. But if you are going to Rice University, and belong to ROTC, then the education is from Rice. Not from ROTC. The AF Academy on the other hand is an actual University. It is an accredited school that awards a Bachelor of Science degree. Academically; it is considered as prestigious as any of the Ivy League and/or many of the elite private Universities.

    Now; if you're asking what the advantages are from a Military Career standpoint, that's a different question. This is definitely a matter of debate. It's been going on for years. Just as "Active Duty" compared to "Guard or Reserve". There are 3 means to become a commissioned officer in the Air Force. 1) The Air Force Academy. (You're familiar with that). 2) ROTC. (You can be part of ROTC and get commissioned). 3) OTS. (You finished up your degree on your own, and you go to Office Training School and get commissioned. As for your job; all 3 are equal. As for "Getting your Job"; AF Academy usually has the prestige to get 1st choice of available career fields. Including pilot slots. ROTC next. Then OTS. There aren't really any "RULES" that say one is held higher in regard to the other. But unofficially, the Air Force Academy is looked upon as the "Elite". Enlisted folks look upon all officers with the due respect, but they look upon academy graduates with a certain amount of "awe". Promotion boards look more favorably on academy graduates. That's not to say that only the academy grads get good jobs and promotions. Realize that there's only about 900-1000 from the academy each year who get commissioned. And more than half that many who are separating from the military. Many of the academy grads spanning a 20 year career will be in the aviation type careers. But there are ROTC that are also flying. And while I don't have the exact numbers, I would say that academy officers aren't the majority.

    Anyway; there's pros and cons of all 3 ways to being an officer. An academy education is definitely top notch. One of the best in the country. Yet, you can get an ROTC program at Harvard, Yale, and MIT. And I'm "PRETTY SURE" you can get a "DECENT" education from one of those 3. At least I've been told. LOL!!! Best of luck to you. mike.....
     
  12. AFAplease

    AFAplease Appointee

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    Great post Mike!

    I'm still just unsure of how likely I am to recieve an appointment the second time, just because of the fact that it is my second time applying. From now until July, nothing on my application will change at all, except work over the summer and plans to a state university with ROTC for freshman year.

    Because I am fully qualified now, will the second application be a big enough factor to raise my application from qualified to appointed?

    Also can anyone shine some light on AFROTC Det. nominations?

    Thanks so much! I really appreciate all of this help!
     
  13. RaptorDad2013

    RaptorDad2013 Member

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    afaplease -

    Make your "perseverance" stand out. How many times do you have to read that second applications count for "desire" and "want!" Why would you somehow think that a second application doesn't serve you well? If you want to win the lottery, you have to buy a ticket. If you want to get into the Air Force Academy, you have to apply. If they thought it was a one-shot deal, they wouldn't give you until you are 23 years of age, would they?!?!? :smile:

    Make a plan. Do you have a local junior or 4-year college that you could take summer school and get a two or three credit course? You know, since you indicated you did NO senior math, why not do a college-level pre-calc class that you can add to your scholastic mix on your next application. You mention your teachers -- did you send in the three "other" separate letters of recommendation that the academy allows? Is there a Civil Air Patrol squadron nearby? That's another indication of your interest. Is your summer job one that you've worked at before? Can you get a "shift leader" position this year? Have you asked your boss from last year for a leadership position or something similar that shows leadership and dependability?

    There is a LOT you can do -- and as several have said, insure your application is complete by mid-summer and then update constantly! Good luck! :thumb:
     
  14. AFAplease

    AFAplease Appointee

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    I have already had AP Calc 1 and 2 in high school, but a refresher might be nice. I was unaware that the academy allowed 3 other teacher recommendations, does this make a total of 5? The place I will be working at is the same place as last summer, however it is a top notch science research facility with few opportunities for student interns to lead. I am continuing to earn BSA Eagle Palms. Your post does give me some good ideas though. Thanks
     
  15. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hi!

    Okay...this is something I know quite a bit about.

    First...breathe....again...relaxed? (NO, what are you thinking?!) :biggrin:

    Okay...the BIGGEST decision you must make is: GO TO SCHOOL! Yes, really. GO TO SCHOOL and take a "full" load of at least 12 semester hours. And take the tough classes. Try to "mirror" the first year at the academy.

    Next...decide where to go to school. Junior College, state university, or ? In truth it really does NOT matter; going to school is the biggie.

    IF that school has an ROTC program, enroll in it. That will give you a taste of the military, on a small scale. It will also allow you to gain experience and also to show the military members there that you are SERIOUS about service. It also looks good on your application, should you try for the academy again.

    Okay...you've decided to reapply. First things first: speak with your ALO, your AFA counselor, etc., and try to get their opinions as to why you didn't get in this time. Trust me, that's going to be TOUGH. Why?

    Because decisions on acceptance can literally come down to "tenths" of a point of the weighted composite score. Yes, that close. BUT...if there's ONE area that I see that can ALWAYS be improved it's the standardized tests: SAT/ACT. TAKE THEM AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN...and get the software to help prepare, do whatever it takes to nail those suckers.

    Now...get at least a 3.0 in your college classes. And let your congressman and ALO know that you're reapplying; you're not done, and to expect a better "you" this next go around.

    Trust me, as an ALO, I LOVE to have a "repeat" candidate because they are so much sharper, know the ropes, and are TOTALLY focused on the goal. And they typically do better the second time around.

    GET IN THE BEST PHYSICAL CONDITION OF YOUR LIFE! You have a FULL year to do that! If you can't MAX the CFA now, then you're not there. I had a candidate that did NOT make it the first year...his SAT's were OH SO CLOSE but...and his CFA was "average."

    He spent the next year in a local CC, and did ROTC at the "U" and really got in condition. When I gave him the CFA the next cycle, I said "So...John...how will you do?"

    He proceeded to blow the test away, nailing everything with a max.

    He graduated with the class of 2008 and is in UPT today.

    I could go ON AND ON AND ON...but this should give you a start to the thought process.

    I'm living proof: IT CAN BE DONE the second time around...you just have to want it a bit more.

    Final thought: HS grads (read: college students) are viewed DIFFERENTLY from HS students...you're considered to be more mature, have a better "feel" for where you're going, and if you have a 3.0 GPA in college classes, then you have proven you can succeed in college (read USAFA academics) and that's the BIG thing "they" are trying to "guess" with the HS student applicant.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  16. Roman

    Roman Member

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    Thread bookmarked for future reference. :smile:
     
  17. RaptorDad2013

    RaptorDad2013 Member

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    I'll only add to flieger 83's (once again, ON TARGET) advice that you need to read the instructions for the application -- there are teacher recommendations, and then three additional "optional" recommendations -- my son's was from an retired 0-6 neighbor who used to run Army ROTC programs for all the northwestern states, his squadron commander for CAP who was a retired 0-5 Air Force LTC and current Delta pilot, and his third was from another teacher who wrote rave letters. Those were in addition to the required "teacher" recommendations. It's all on the website -- if you missed that, don't kick yourself, just insure you "read the problem." And, I only mentioned summer school and pre-calc since you had said you had no math since 11th grade. If you can hold a summer job AND make solid summer school college grades, it gives you something to say before those fall semester college grades next year!

    Again, you can do this -- take your ALO's (and flieger's) advice and you'll be better next time -- think of it this way -- you're going into this with much more experience than before -- how can you lose?!!:thumb:
     
  18. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    AFAplease; head the wisdom. FWIW; the academy does look very favorably on those that re-apply the 2nd year. There's a lot of posts/threads about it. As mentioned; go to school. If they have ROTC, get into it. Even if it's not AFROTC. I know getting into the academy is hard. If it wasn't; everyone would do it. If you made it through the entire process, then not getting an appointment had nothing to do with you. The Air Force knows they can only have so many appointees/cadets. Reapply by all means. Show your determination.

    If you don't get accepted to the academy, then you'll be in a civilian college. That's a given. Anyone qualified to apply/get accepted to the academy is qualified for some of the best colleges in the country. Now of those coming in straight from High School, there's a lot of motives. And the academy has to hash through many of these motives. Is it JUST for a free education? Are they applying because they really want to serve their country? Did they apply because they don't have anything else? Are they applying because they are somewhat insecure and want an environment where they are still sort of being taken care of and guaranteed a job? What are the motives???? However; when you are in college; will already have a year of education behind you; knows that you will still have to do ALL 4 years; and after going an entire year through the process and didn't get selected, but you finished up your next year's application prior to August; then the motives become A LOT CLEARER. "THIS PERSON REALLY WANTS THIS"!!!!

    If you REALLY want the academy, then do as has been suggested.
    1. Enroll in college
    2. Take a full course
    3. Complete your new application BEFORE 1 September 2009. (I suggest earlier)
    4. That includes CFA, DODMRB, teacher's endorsements (High school), etc... 100% I know this can be done, because I have first hand experience with this. My son was finished 100%; not one thing possible left; on July 19th. So talk to your teachers NOW. Ask them for their PERSONAL email addresses. See if they will be willing to help you out as soon as the application process is available. Talk to your MOC again; early. THEY TOO will be impressed. They might even make you a PRIMARY NOMINEE. Get it ALL DONE EARLY. Improve SAT/ACT. Everything you did the first time. Just better, faster, and NOW!
    5. Get involved with ROTC if available.
    6. Talk with your ALO/Counselor
    7. And also do the ROTC scholarship paperwork early. It has to be completed before January. Just in case you don't get the LOA or appointment, get the ROTC scholarship and commissioning.

    Go for it. Get fired up. Get pissed off. Don't let anyone tell you that you CAN'T get what you want. You're being tested; now decide what you want. And if it's not what you want, then that's OK too. But do it for you. Not for anyone here, parents, friends, etc.... Do it only for you. There's a lot of experienced people on these forums, your ALO, counselor, ROTC Det commander, etc... that have/can help. It's your turn. Kick some A$$. When I went through Basic, our squadron's motto was "Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way". That really made a life long impact on me. I truly believe it. Best of luck to you. Later.... Mike.....
     
  19. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    As we like to say in the AF/Military:

    "ChristCorp is dead-on balls accurate!" :thumb:
     
  20. Lifeisgood

    Lifeisgood Member

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    Does anyone know where the term "dead on balls accurate" comes from?

    I have also always heard the term "balls to the wall". I found out it is a Air Force term. Does anyone have a idea what it means?
     

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