What happens if you become medically disqualified while at West Point?

Just curious, wouldn't these individuals be considered veterans given they are in the service during their time at the SA? Wouldn't they be eligible for veterans benefits?
 
Sort of but not really

Cadets/Mids are somewhat 'in between'

They carry active duty ID cards are subject to the UCMJ, travel on official orders, can be called to serve in emergency situations, etc

But they are not considered active duty for retirement and longevity and if they separate from the SA for medical purposes don't necessarily qualify for VA benefits (though if injured at an SA that injury could qualify you for compensation)

A few years ago, there was an attempt to protect cadets/Mids from slipping through this crack but it didn't make it into the final legislation.

Unless things have changed, it is one of those quirky loopholes that can leave someone in a bad spot

Though I had a classmate that was allowed to graduate with a terminal illness and the chain of command made sure a defense contractor hired him immediately to provide insurance during his final months
 
Cerberi said:
Sort of but not really

Cadets/Mids are somewhat 'in between'

They carry active duty ID cards are subject to the UCMJ, travel on official orders, can be called to serve in emergency situations, etc

But they are not considered active duty for retirement and longevity and if they separate from the SA for medical purposes don't necessarily qualify for VA benefits (though if injured at an SA that injury could qualify you for compensation)

A few years ago, there was an attempt to protect cadets/Mids from slipping through this crack but it didn't make it into the final legislation.

Unless things have changed, it is one of those quirky loopholes that can leave someone in a bad spot

Though I had a classmate that was allowed to graduate with a terminal illness and the chain of command made sure a defense contractor hired him immediately to provide insurance during his final months
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Good points all. There are some restrictions placed on full veteran status because of the nature of the duty - at the initial intake and training location - and the length of time. It's the same at enlisted boot camp and other direct intake locations. They are active duty, per DOD, but the VA is a different Federal agency, so it's the type and length of duty - initial - that MAY make a difference for full benefits. MAY because of various details, exceptions, nature of illness, injury. If you want to give yourself a headache, there are pages of benefits coverage details to wade through. A sample: http://www.benefits.va.gov/WARMS/docs/admin21/m21_1/mr/part3/subptii/ch06/M21-1III_ii_6.docx

To add flavor to the mix, the individual states' veterans agencies have their own sets of benefits and rules relating to eligibility.

This is also different from what they may be eligible for from DOD medical. Mids and cadets who are being separated for alcohol offenses and are diagnosed with alcohol dependency issues are, to the best of my knowledge, offered alcohol rehab programs before separation. It's been a while since I've been close to a mid who was being separated for medical reasons. We had a sponsor daughter develop diabetes Type I. She finished out 3/c (sophomore) year while Navy docs got her condition stabilized. She separated over the summer with a hand-off from Navy to civilian docs. I don't think she rated any further DOD or VA care.

I am going to climb back out of this rabbit hole now, which I knowingly entered and enlarged.
 
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EOD/SEALmom said:
This is a gamble, since if you are found to have something such as cancer it would be considered a pre-existing condition and thus hard/impossible/expensive to find health insurance on your own if separated. For our family, we pay one price for a family plan, and keeping DD on it while at a SA will not cost us any extra. *If she gets an appointment- which of course we're still hoping for :)
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This is why one needs to be careful where they get advice. In your case, keeping your daughter on your policy works, because it's free. If not for that, insurance could cost hundreds every month. Many families can't afford it.
This is also "worst case scenario" thinking. That situation is rare, but think how many thousands, if not millions of dollars families have paid out because of advise from nervous parents on a forum.

The same goes for other college tuition and room and board deposits. Have some faith people! When your kid accepts an appointment, go for it Gung ho. Don't plan as if you're expecting the worst. Colleges don't ordinarily refund those deposits (some do) but rarely would you get it all back.
Lots of well heeled families send kids to academies and will scoff at this advice. Lots of people without disposable cash send kids too. They don't need to waste their money.
 
I had a classmate with an eye injury our 2/c year. He had surgery and it healed but he couldn't be commissioned (which he sadly found out weeks before graduation).

He was medically retired.

I wouldn't say this is the norm though.

And honestly, cadets and midshipmen should be eligible for these kinds of things. I consider it less a loophole and more a correct decision.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I had a classmate with an eye injury our 2/c year. He had surgery and it healed but he couldn't be commissioned (which he sadly found out weeks before graduation).

He was medically retired.

I wouldn't say this is the norm though.

And honestly, cadets and midshipmen should be eligible for these kinds of things. I consider it less a loophole and more a correct decision.
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I take it he was allowed to graduate. Did he get a bill for his education?
 
You never have to pay back the academy unless it's your fault for leaving or you quit after affirmation.
 
I'm very surprised they are not considered veterans, seems plain wrong, they're being paid as soldiers, they can be deployed as needed, really odd that should they be injured in their preparation for that duty they could be shut out.
 
USMA_ljm said:
I'm very surprised they are not considered veterans, seems plain wrong, they're being paid as soldiers, they can be deployed as needed, really odd that should they be injured in their preparation for that duty they could be shut out.
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As a general rule - every time you read or hear about a great benefit from the federal government - just assume that it doesn't apply to you

This will do two things for you

1. You won't be surprised negatively
2. You will be correct 98% of the time
 
USMA_ljm said:
I'm very surprised they are not considered veterans, seems plain wrong, they're being paid as soldiers, they can be deployed as needed, really odd that should they be injured in their preparation for that duty they could be shut out.
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"Deployed as needed"...

"You there soldier, report to the soccer field for dribble train."

"Sailor, report to Lieutenant Gooatz for your math deployment! Get that quadratic equation down or people will die!"


Please, they're going to college for free. The REAL service comes as payback.

I knew a guy who was at CGA for two years, resigned before being disenrolled, and, because it was during Desert Storm, has veterans hiring preference.... All for a failed two years at Canoe U.... And he's a federal employee now. And a veteran in no ones eyes but his own and OPM.
 
5Day said:
I take it he was allowed to graduate. Did he get a bill for his education?
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Until the very end they were trying to get him a billet. But at the last moment it was disapproved. He was able to graduate with his CGA diploma and he was medically retired. It's too bad because he really wanted that commission and would have been great.

The Coast Guard only has what the Navy calls line officers. Had he been Navy he might have been able to get a restricted (is that what non line officers are called) billet, but that's not the case with the Coast Guard.
 
USMA_ljm said:
I'm very surprised they are not considered veterans, seems plain wrong, they're being paid as soldiers, they can be deployed as needed,
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  1. No military academy cadet/mid has ever been deployed during a time of war.
  2. They're not being paid as soldiers, they're being paid 1/3 of 2LT/ENS pay to be students.
  3. Ironically, the only academy students that have ever been deployed during a time of war are from the "non-military" United States Merchant Marine Academy, which lost 142 cadet-midshipmen who gave their lives during WW2 and is the only academy authorized to carry a a battle standard.
 
Just have to say one thing:
"Please, they're going to college for free" No, I don't think so. And some, maybe not all, look at it as committing to serve their country in the best way they can, not a "free" education.
 
USMA_ljm said:
Just have to say one thing:
"Please, they're going to college for free" No, I don't think so. And some, maybe not all, look at it as committing to serve their country in the best way they can, not a "free" education.
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Oh it's free until they commission and we all know plenty who got two free years and never "served."
 
It appears there is more latitude given to a Firstie who may be medically discharged and allowed to stay their final year to graduate then if you were a yuk or a cow. In these cases (years attended) you are most likely medically discharged and separated from the Army and WP. See Army Regs. below for West Point and specifically 6-30 a, #3. My Firstie cadet may be faced with this issue and these regs have been very helpful.


Chapter 5

Graduation and Commissioning

5-1. Authority to confer degree

Under conditions approved by the Secretary of the Army, the Superintendent may confer the degree of Bachelor of Science upon graduates of the Academy ( Section 4353(a), Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 4353(a)))

5-2. Authority to tender a commission in the U.S. Army Reserve

The Superintendent may tender appointments, in the grade of second lieutenant, U.S. Army Reserve (USAR), with concurrent call to active duty, to qualified graduates of the Military Academy in any Branch directed by the Department of the Army.

5-3. Graduation and conferring of degree

  1. First class cadets who have successfully completed the requirements of the COI, including the Academic, Military, and Physical Programs; have maintained prescribed standards of conduct; and who have demonstrated proper moral-ethical qualities, leadership, and character may receive a diploma signed by the Superintendent, the Commandant, and the Dean. These cadets will have earned the Bachelor of Science degree and will be designated as graduates of the USMA.

  2. A cadet who is discharged or separated from the Academy under provisions of this regulation, or for any other good cause, will not be graduated, awarded a diploma, or commissioned. However, when the Superintendent proposes that a cadet be separated for failure to meet medical retention standards under paragraph 4-6 of this regulation, and when the Academic Board determines that the cadet successfully completed all requirements of the Academic, Military, and Physical Programs, the Superintendent may approve graduation and the award of a diploma with a Bachelor of Science degree. Such a cadet will not be commissioned. If the medical separation is not approved, the cadet will be commissioned under paragraph 5-4 of this regulation.

  3. Notwithstanding any other provision of this regulation, a cadet, found by the Academic Board to have successfully completed all requirements in the Academic, Military, and Physical Programs, may receive a diploma and graduate with the Bachelor of Science degree, without being commissioned, provided the Secretary of the Army determines that it is in the best interest of the Government.

  4. When a cadet is separated and is not awarded a diploma, but the Academic Board determines that the cadet has successfully completed all requirements in the Academic Program, the Academic Board may authorize the award of a Certificate of Completion of the Academic Program. The Dean will sign the certificate.

    e. The Secretary of the Army has delegated to the Superintendent the authority to defer graduation of any cadet for good cause, to include cases where:
  1. A cadet is under investigation for violation of the Honor Code, serious misconduct, or immorality or is the subject of an administrative action that could result in separation, or the award of extended punishment. A cadet is deficient in the Academic, Military, or Physical Programs.


6-30. Medically disqualified cadets

a. Whenever the Surgeon, USMA, determines that a USMA cadet does not meet the fitness requirements to perform all duties as a member of the Corps of Cadets during the current academic term or summer training period, or will not meet the medical fitness standards for appointment on active duty at the expected time of commissioning, the Superintendent will review the case and, at his discretion, take one of the following actions:

  1. Afford the cadet an opportunity to resign.

  2. Recommend that, in the case of the medical disqualification under cadet retention standards as provided in AR 40-501, the cadet be separated (see AR 612-205).

  3. For cadets of the first class, recommend they be retained and graduated, either as provided in paragraph 5-3b of this regulation, or, if otherwise qualified, by being granted a waiver and commissioned.

  4. Recommend that the cadet, if physically disqualified for any military service, be discharged ( paragraph 5-3b of this regulation and AR 612-205).

  5. Permit the cadet, upon the cadet's written request, to complete the academic year in which the defect is noted, and in those cases in which it appears that the disqualifying defect is clearly remediable, to continue for an additional period of time beyond the current academic year for the purpose of further observation and/or treatment. This additional period will not go beyond the end of the academic year following that in which the defect is noted unless the physical disqualification is removed.

  6. Grant leave without pay to the cadet, upon the cadet's written request, or direct leave from the Military Academy for an appropriate period of time, not to exceed one year. At a time designated by the Surgeon, USMA, the cadet will be reexamined to determine if the medical disqualification has been remedied. If so, and otherwise qualified, the cadet will be permitted to return to the Military Academy. In the event that the medical disqualification continues to exist, the case will be reevaluated consistent with this article.

    b. For those cadets with service obligations, whose cases fall within the purview of paragraphs a(1) through (4) above, the Superintendent's recommendations with pertinent enclosures, will be forwarded to Headquarters, Department of the Army, for final action. The DMPP, DCS, G-1, will take final action, to include approval of medical waivers, on such cases following consultation with The Surgeon General. When appropriate, recommendations will include an opinion concerning the cadet's medical qualifications for other military service.
 
Cerberi said:
As a general rule - every time you read or hear about a great benefit from the federal government - just assume that it doesn't apply to you. This will do two things for you:

1. You won't be surprised negatively
2. You will be correct 98% of the time
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I found this profound statement from Cerberi that are some of the wisest words I have ever come across on the Forum.

Just thought I would take it to the top; not bad for a Chair Force Academy Grad .
 
Freda'sMom said:
  1. No military academy cadet/mid has ever been deployed during a time of war.
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The possibility always looms of a Cadet/Mid finding themselves on a battlefield sooner than anticipated.

While not technically deployed as Cadets, several West Point classes were graduated early in time of war. I assume USNA also had early graduations:
  1. Spanish-American war: Class of 1899 graduated early
  2. Philippine-American War: Class of 1901 graduated early
  3. WW I: *First Class graduated on 20 April 1917, Second Class in August 1917, and both the Third and Fourth Classes just before the Armistice of 11 November 1918. *Only freshman cadets remained (those who had entered in the summer of 1918) *In all, wartime contingencies and post-war adjustments resulted in ten classes graduating, varying in length of study from two to four years, within a seven-year period before the regular course of study was fully resumed.
  4. WW II: *Congress authorized an increase to 2,496 cadets in 1942 and began graduating classes early. *The class of 1943 graduated six months early in January 1943, and the next four classes graduated after only three years.
 
EOD/SEALmom said:
This is a gamble, since if you are found to have something such as cancer it would be considered a pre-existing condition and thus hard/impossible/expensive to find health insurance on your own if separated. For our family, we pay one price for a family plan, and keeping DD on it while at a SA will not cost us any extra. *If she gets an appointment- which of course we're still hoping for :)
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You're lucky. Many families don't have the luxury of free dependents on their plan.

There are indeed state sponsored plans, and even Obamacare that can be purchased regardless of pre-existing conditions.

You're also wise to not count your chickens until they hatch.
 
I did not say dependents are free....but that all dependents are covered under the "family" plan. Most insurance companies have one price for self, another price for self plus spouse, and then family plan which covers spouse plus children. Since our family already pays the highest price for the family plan, it costs us nothing extra.
 
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