What is the ratio of minorities to Caucasians that play vital roles in the government

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by gridironkid, May 30, 2014.

  1. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    I was having a debate and my dad was telling me that in America there is no such thing as "equality" per se and the reason behind this is due to the fact that minorities can only go so far in this country. Sure they can be treated 'equally'--they would have a nice car, a great job that pays well, an education, a house and a family of their own but when it comes to having careers in the military that is directly correlated to the duties of a chief of staff or careers in the American government where you hold a leadership role (especially a member of the president's cabinet) there would be no place for the minority especially the black individual despite their qualifications. I know discrimination exists in the military and in this nation, according to him "a white officer--high ranking that is, would rather send a whole platoon of blacks and minorities into combat than sending the white infantrymen" I aspire to be an army officer, have a great education and a career in and out of the military where I can go past my limit and the limit of any potential racial barrier. No one would admit to racial barriers that exist today especially the top CEOs government officials etc thus making everyone feel like there is a infinite opportunities to go further than you expect. My dad is telling me all of this so that I can be aware of such issues that occur from time to time so that I don't take it personally or get hurt if it comes my way but not to discourage me from doing what I wish.

    Need some clarification on this
     
  2. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    No offense intended, but your dad really has no idea what he's talking about.

    Didn't you ask this same question 4 or 5 different ways several months ago? The answers you received then were spot on. Nothing has changed.
     
  3. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Ever heard of Colin Powell? USAF Vice CSAF Gen Spencer? Condoleezza Rice? Susan Rice? BARACK OBAMA? Thurgood Marshall? Clarence Thomas? General "Chappie" James?

    Just a few answers. Especially including the (black) president's cabinet.
     
  4. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    I know I did but I do not want biased answers. The military lacks minority general officers for the most part (if it didn't there wouldn't be such a low quantity of generals that are minorities versus blacks) I mean you can also see for yourself that there is not an equal proportion of minorities and whites that are at the top of the ladder so to speak--this is in fact the reason as to why my dad and most of my family for the the most part think that minorities do not go far. It's like they are barred from getting to the highest point.
     
  5. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    right, but they are only a few in comparison to the history of Caucasians that have served in leadership positions. Hence, this is why my dad thinks that minorities get far in the government
     
  6. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    What do YOU think?
     
  7. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Only time will tell. "The history of Caucasians" that serve in in leadership positions is not a valid example. We need to study history, but sometimes we need to study what's happening now. We had slavery in the Unite States - but that was back in 19th century. We live in 21st century now. I think there are 11 4 star Army generals right now - I know at least two of them are African Americans - Brooks and Austin. Based on history, you dad can make state that there minorities didn't go far in the government, but what's happening now he cannot make such statement.
     
  8. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    I think his argument is based off of historical accounts. In the years to come things could definitely change.
     
  9. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I would argue that if you normalized the data, things have changed already. There are certain time lag - usually take 20 to 30 years to experience to take senior positions in most organizations. I would say you will see more and more minorities in senior positions as 70's and 80's are when more "doors" start opening.

    You also have to consider the statistical rules. Let says, 30% of United States is minorities. If so some would argue that 30 Senators should be minorities. But, there are two senators per state, and usually only one senator seat is voted on, so how do we have .3 senator? We can't.
     
  10. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    So after asking the SAME questions 4 or 5 different ways on this forum and supposedly receiving biased answers; you've decided to ask the same question on the same forum in "hopes" of now getting non-biased answers from the same people?
     
  11. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    A few years ago I saw a book called "Sh_t My Dad Says". While it sounds like your father is trying to fortify you against future frustrations, he may deserve a chapter in the sequel.

    I'm pretty sure my kids are already compiling their own version.
     
  12. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    If you were in the military or have served in any kind of government position, what is your take on this?
     
  13. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    Well, it's a good thing the military desegregated under President Truman, 66 years ago.
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I've thought about avoiding this thread....

    Let's dig a little deeper. Before we think race, that's think socio-economic. The officer corps of the military is college educated. Some of that officer corps are from service academies, some are from ROTC or OCS, and some are direct commission.

    Who's going to college, most often? High school students who were competitive enough to get in. These are often (but not always) kids in decent communities with access to good schools. They take competitive classes and do somewhat decent on standardized tests.

    Kids in poor communities may have less access to materials, may get poorer educations, and may have more trouble on standardized tests. They may come from broken families. And, they may be exposed to crime. They may not understand eating right and physical activity.

    Is that second, poor group, often made up of minorities? Sure. Plenty of data on that. I'm convinced it has more to do with socio-economics than race, but OK, we can be honest and say a large portion is black.

    So, if we consider that fact that a VAST majority of commissioned officers are NEVER flag/general officers, and we understand minorities make up a smaller portion of the officer corps, it would be reasonable to assume there are less black flag/general officers.

    Extend that to women. The first female class at a military academy was the class of 1980, and only a small number of women made up those classes. Yes, numbers have grown, but those early 1980s classes are only now nearing "flag/general" range. There are other commissioning sources that had women commission earlier, but still, we're talking a small number. Twenty years from now, when classes with higher minority/female numbers approach that flag/general officer range, I'm sure we'll see more female or black flag/general officers.
     
  15. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    So your argument is based on the fact that there are more minorities that lack proper education than those that do not lack proper education and thus those that do lack the education tend to not make up a lot of the officer corps (really because they are ineligible) could this be the reason why there is more minorities and blacks that are NCOs? Also what is there a sort of 'selection' process that every officer goes through to get promoted to a new rank? for example does an officer have to compete with a counterpart when it comes to who gets promoted versus who doesn't? (kind of like who gets the job in a pool of applicants versus who doesn't)



    My dad has never been in the military so his ideologies are based on what he has seen in movies (mistreatment of blacks in every aspect of life) also he believes in the fact that "racism is in the blood of every Caucasian" (his answer when I asked him how he knew if such discrimination existed in the army) also due to Hollywood and history.
     
  16. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    I think you need to start thinking for yourself.
     
  17. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    It's not my "argument" as much as a partial theory.

    There's not a "selection" process in the way you're thinking. The first few promotions are fairly automatic unless you mess up. After that you and your peers' files go before a board, that looks at how you've done and how you've been rated. Some are promoted, some aren't. Of the folks reviewed for promotion, only a certain percentage will actually be promoted.
     
  18. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    what do you mean by "peers'" files? that means that I would be competing for a promotion amongst other officers right?
     
  19. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Time to stop feeding the troll.
     
  20. gridironkid

    gridironkid Member

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    I think for myself but comming from an immigrant family that doesn't know much about the military its really hard for me to convince them that race isn't a very huge problem in the military. My dad came to the US in the 80s and has lived here since--I think he has experienced or seen some racial discrimination so his argument is very simple "you cannot go far in the military or government due to skin color"

    As parents my mom and dad do not prefer me that I join the military especially the army but by now they cannot do anything about it because it has been a long time aspiration of mine. However, my dad just wants me to be aware of racial discrimination exhibited in the Army and at the highest levels of government now so that I can avoid being depressed for not going as far as I would've liked--that is why he was telling me all of this crap. It was hard to argue back because his opinions were so ridiculous that it would leave one speechless
     

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