What score was he talking about?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by czs21, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. czs21

    czs21 Member

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    Today, I had my interview for AROTC. The officer I met with told me I am a solid candidate and the only thing that may hold me back from the first board is my GPA. Regardless my interviewer talked about my 'whole person score'. I believe I have an idea of the general 'whole person score' which is out of 1000. But the 'composite' score he told me Cadet Command had on my file was between 25 and 30. What score range is this? Has anyone else heard of a scoring system that is similar(number-wise) to the ACT?

    I say similar to the ACT number-wise because immediately after mentioning my score, he talked about how the best candidates have 30's.

    Thank you!
     
  2. educateme

    educateme Member

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    I am quite surprised about this. Never heard anything like this, and I talked with quite a lot of people.

    Yesterday, my son called CC and talked with a woman who takes care of all the paperwork, to confirm that his file is indeed complete and all the information entered is a correct one. In the process, he asked casually "now that my file is complete, can you tell me what my total score is" The answer was, she does not know. It does not show on his file that she can read, and she believe it's visible only to the board members.

    Besides, out of total 1000 OML points, 350 are determined by those who are sitting in the board, and 200 are from the interview. So, your file was NOT complete (without the interview score entered yet), and the board has not met yet.

    So, how could your interviewer tell you where your score fall?

    I am not questioning the veracity of your account. I am just really perplexed about where this is coming from.....
     
  3. mtnman17

    mtnman17 USMA Appointee 2015

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    Here's my info from what three different PMS' have told me:

    1. Whole Person Score (WPS) is what the Army uses to evaluate your leadership/extracurricular activities. A 30 is a good number here.

    2. The interview is worth 200 pts.

    3. All the PMS that are at schools on your list of intent can see pretty much everything that you have inputed into the system. And with the new interview process this year pretty much any school can see that, the way I understood it.

    I am just guessing that you might have gotten the terms and numbers of CS and WPS mixed up, because otherwise that info looks good.

    And for the record, I had the same talk and was told very similar info by each school I have visited.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Yes there is a composite score like the one you mentioned in your post. Cadet Command looks at the application and rates it on a number scale. I'm not totally clear how they arrive at that magic number. My son met with PMS at his #1 one school and spoke on the phone with a PMS from another school, both told him that his composite number. When they pulled up his application on the computer there was a section that showed a number score for several different catagories, the average number was listed at the end. The interview score was listed seperatly from the composite score. We were told that the composite score was given based on the information that was input into the application.

    I'm not sure that clears things up or not, I just wanted to let you know that yes, there is a composite score.
     
  5. educateme

    educateme Member

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    so, how is this CS going to be fed into the OML score? OML, to the best of my knolwedge, is 1000 points max, and it is divided as below:

    (1) 250 for SAT/SAT
    (2) 200 for interview
    (3) 200 for scholar/athlete/leader achievement
    (4) 350 for board member assessment

    Throughout the whole process of getting know how this works, I get a very clear impressions that Army is very formula driven.

    (1) is automatically generated by the test score input. Even out of (2), 120 points are determined by counting check marks on certain attributes - 80 points are subjective by the interview.

    I have the feeling that (3) is automatically generated by the computer based on what you inputed into the application. The program is automatically going through the on line application and assign points for each check mark. I am guessing this since when my son talked with a lady at CC about certain things, she said, the points are automatically assigned on the number/check mark that is entered into the system.

    Of course, 350 points board members assign are the big wild cards - I believe these points are subjective.

    So, I am still left with where this CS fits. The only place I can think of is, (3). If so, how is this going to be used? Does it get linearly converted/rescaled into 200? Or, is this 30 part of the total 200 in this category?

    My son is seriously interested in applying ED to his dream school, but as a parent who is responsible for the financial aspects of his education, I would say it's a really iffy proposition to apply ED not knowing whether he will get a scholarship to that school or not, and the results of the first board is not going to be know before the ED deadline. I am advising him not to apply ED. But if I have a perfect set of information (not a possibility, just a wish), I could advise my son better.......

    I so WISH I could get some feel for where he stands in terms of likelihood of getting offered a scholarship after the first board. This will make a huge difference in college application decisions.
     
  6. mtnman17

    mtnman17 USMA Appointee 2015

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    I bet that the Order of Merit List score is called the composite score....:confused:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  7. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Maybe AROTC uses a version of the scoring used in the ROTC OML Model? Page 4 Here
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  8. mtnman17

    mtnman17 USMA Appointee 2015

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    I'm just going to say up front, I don't know if I have seen a ppt that good about this process yet! Still going through all this info! Thanks for putting it out there. :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
  9. gojack

    gojack ....

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    ROTC cadet selection will have a similar model
     
  10. mtnman17

    mtnman17 USMA Appointee 2015

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    If you don't mind posting it, what is the phone number you've been called them with? I can't seem to get anybody.
     
  11. educateme

    educateme Member

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    I think different administrator works with a different batch of applicants. It is by the last name I was told. My son's last name starts with M. If your last name initial is close by, PM me, and I will share the phone number.

    I don't want to post it widely here. It was clear that the lady was overwhelmed with questions and what not, and I don't want to maker her an "easy target" by all the anxious applicants and their parents.
     
  12. czs21

    czs21 Member

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    Thank you all for your answers. I very well may have messed up some of the wording or acronyms. And as far as truth of what I was saying, it was practically verbatum of what my interviewer said. I feel like nothing is ever straight foward in this process, so I do not mind that you question what I said at all. What someone, I forget who, said about 30 being a good number coincides with what my interviewer told me. He said the first board picks are generally those who are 30+. Thank you all again.
     
  13. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    here's my 2 cents (love this board)...
    There is a whole person score that is generated from your input on your application. Basically it is scholar/athlete/leader and your SAT/ACT. I've seen how it is calculated in one of the Cadet Command regs, but I can't recall which one at the moment. Usually applicants in the mid to 25-35 range has a pretty good score. The best way you can impact this score is to have a high GPA in High School, high SAT/ACT scores, and list all you extracurriculars on your application. Don't get too wrapped up in this score, it has very little impact on your chances overall, since it is just emphasized, or deemphasized as your file gets looked at by your interviewer and the officers on the board. In my opinion it's just a "raw score" that I can use to rank order my list of applicants.
     
  14. gojack

    gojack ....

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    A search for "Army ROTC Whole Person Score" produced these...

    *Undated, Link Here
    GUIDE TO THE ARMY ROTC SCHOLARSHIP PROCESS
    Your 1000 point Whole Person score is a merit based score made up of: 1) 250 points for your ACT/SAT score; 2) 200 points for your scholar/athlete/leader evaluation based upon your athletic, scholastic, and leadership achievements; 3) 200 points from your interview; and 3) 350 points are determined by the board of officers. Student’s scores are then placed in an order of merit list (OML), in descending order, of their Whole Person point score.


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Page break <New Article>Page break
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    9 January 2006
    SUBJECT: Policy Memorandum #14 – Determination of Points for the Incoming Freshmen Scholarship Order of Merit (OML) List

    1. The Incoming Freshmen Scholarship OML is the methodology used to rank order cadets and assist in the selection process for scholarships. The Scholarship OML will include all senior high school students interested in attending St. Bonaventure University or a partnership school and attaining a scholarship.

    2. The OML will be determined by a point system, which will include the applicants Whole Person Score (WPS), the PMS in person interview score, and intangibles. The WPS is determined by CCIMS and is based upon the applicant’s application and transcripts. The in person interview score will be derived from the actual score posted online.

    3. The OML will be determined by counting 100% of the Whole Person Score (WPS), determined by CCIMS. The WPS score will account for 50% of the OML score. It is up to the applicant to correct any mistakes and/or omissions. The WPS is a scoring system that awards points for SAT/ACT scores, GPA, athletics, work, and other types of activities (scouts, student government, etc.).

    4. The PMS in person interview score of the applicant will account for 50% of the OML score. As an example, if an applicant receives an 80 on the PSM interview, then 40 points (50% of 80) will be awarded to the applicant. The score that is used will be the online score provided by the school that actually conducted the interview.

    5. Intangibles such as academic major, school choice ranking, status of admission application and other such items will be used to break a tie. Intangibles will be incorporated into the score only as a last resort and at the discretion of the PMS.

    6. Awardees will be notified by phone and given 7 days to give a verbal answer. If the applicant rejects the scholarship, the next applicant on the OML will be notified and given 7 days to respond. When the applicant accepts, a letter of intent will be mailed to the applicant. Cadet Command will officially notify the scholarship winner after each OML deadline has passed.

    7. All scholarship offers are conditional based upon passing the DODMERB physical, remaining in good academic standing, University acceptance, high moral character, remaining in their academic major, and physically fit. If an applicant fails to meet one of the above conditions, the offer can be withdrawn and awarded to the next applicant on the OML.

    Link

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Page break <New Article>Page break
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    1. OVERVIEW a. Scholarship allocations vary by year and type of scholarship. b. The scholarship process typically includes three rounds of evaluation. To make yourself the most competitive, complete your application for both the University and the Army ROTC scholarship as soon as possible.

    c. Scholarships are awarded based on an internally created order of merit list (OML). The OML gives us a tool to evaluate scholarship candidates by ranking individuals on the following: SAL criteria or Whole Person Score (WPS), interview and Scholarship Board.

    SAL Criteria or Whole Person Score (WPS) is determined by Cadet Command based on the information you provide during your application process. We recommend that you interview in person (if possible). Lastly, the Scholarship Board reviews all of your credentials (packet) and you are awarded an overall score. The total of the three aforementioned categories determines your total score. You are then rank ordered against all of the other candidates who have applied (typically 100 high school applicants/year). The top candidates will be offered scholarships. Be advised, we usually have additional scholarships available after the school year starts.

    2. WHAT MAKES YOU COMPETITIVE FOR AN ARMY ROTC SCHOLARSHIP We are looking for motivated, well-rounded individuals to become the future warrior-leaders of the United States Army. We target the “Scholar – Athlete – Leader” (SAL). To find out if you are a SAL, review the following:

    SAL Criteria
    Student Instructions Please note any of the following SAL criteria you may have to justify your scholarship application and turn-in to your instructor by her/his deadline. Include both high school and college.

    College Criteria
    Scholar (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Campus Academic Honors Designee
    · Cumulative GPA over 3.0 and SAT/ACT over 1100/21 (Freshmen and G2G)
    · Top third of class and either
    - Cumulative GPA over 3.0
    - and SAT/ACT score above 1100/21 (Freshman & G2G)
    · In a academic program with the Academic Discipline Mix (ADM) coding of 3, 4 or IAW CC Reg 145-12 and a cumulative GPA over 2.5

    Athlete
    (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Current member of college competitive or intramural team
    · Current member of regional/city/competitive league
    · Either active competitive involvement in organized team sports / unit sports team (G2G) or active involvement in individual athletic competitions (triathlon, mountain biking, running, martial arts, etc)

    Leader
    (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Elected member of student government, class, activity
    · Captain of college athletic or academic team
    · Eagle Scout / Gold Star
    · Prior Service NCO (reserve or active duty)
    · Owns/runs own business or in supervisory position
    · Serves in position of responsibility in school/club or private organization and leader in volunteer service organizations/activities

    High School Criteria (4-Year Scholarship Awardees)

    Scholar (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Valedictorian/Salutatorian
    · Membership in National Honor Society
    · Honors or Advanced Placement Program graduate
    · GPA over 3.0 and SAT/ACT over 1100/21
    · Top 10 percent of class and either

    GPA over 3.0 or SAT/ACT score above 1100/21

    Athlete (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Varsity Letter from HS team
    · Member of regional/city/competitive league
    · Either active involvement in organized competitive team sports or active involvement in individual athletic competitions (triathlon, mountain biking, running, martial arts, etc)

    Leader (only requires one of the following bullets)
    · Elected member of student government, class, activity
    · Captain of athletic or academic team
    · Eagle Scout / Gold Star
    · Served in position of responsibility in school/club or private organization and leader in volunteer service organizations/activities

    Link

    Another link
     
  15. mtnman17

    mtnman17 USMA Appointee 2015

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    So if the interview is out of 200 what is an 'average' score? Does anyone know what they got? A typical number?
     
  16. educateme

    educateme Member

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    Disclaimer: I am no historian of army rotc scholarship selection. So, I may be the one who is completely misinformed here.

    That said, though, I am not sure how current is the information provided by gojack above. It is dated Jan 2006, almost 5 years ago. What was provided above sounds a bit outdated. For instance, didn't they "centralize" the scholarship selection during last few years, with the exception of letting the local PMS using 20% of the quota for campus scholarship?

    Furthermore,

    This is news to me. I tracked the discussion on this board last couple of years, I have never heard the notification work this way. The quoted statement sounds more like a decentralized process, where the scholarship candidates were evaluated on a battalion basis.

    Regarding the SAL point system described, my understanding is that indeed a point system like this is used, but it's for the PMS interview. For each of S-A-L category, if you can say yes to two items or more, you get 40 points. If you say yes to only one item, you get 20 points. Three SAL categories together generate max 120 points.

    Additional 40 points are Personal Qualities
    Outstanding/Top applicant in all aspects: (40 points)
    Good, above-average applicant with few weaknesses: (20 points)
    Not appealing. Immature. Poor impression. Unstable or offensive: (0 points)

    Finally, PMS assessment on the candidate's level of commitment:

    Outstanding candidate; all indicators say he/she will commission: (40 points) Strong contender with high probability of commissioning: (20 points) Commission problematic: (0 points)

    This is the PMS interview scoring guideline.

    In terms of what the average is like, I have no idea. I must say though that several parents reported last season that the PMSs who interviewed their kids told the parents that their kids scored full 200 points. When you look at the scoring guideline, I can see that it's not that difficult to get the max point.
     
  17. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    OK...we are mixing some apples and oranges here...and I don't know why they call the overall board score (the 1000 point thingy) the same thing as the 40 point WPS that is generated by the application. Some of the information above pertains to HS scholarship apps and some pertains to generating OMLs on campus (incoming freshmen). I guess they like to keep you all guessing. Here is what you can control in this process. Make sure you spell out all your activities and attributes relating to SAL on your application. This will maximize the points you can gain from the application (including that 40 point WPS we see). Make sure when you interview the PMS gives you every opportunity to get as many of those 200 points available on her/his interview sheet. Again SAL and good interview techniques are key. Proper dress, puncutality, manners will serve you well here. The board is pretty much out of your hands. Three PMS's sitting in a room looking at 100s of files. Better hope they aren't having a bad day. All you can do here is make sure you've done all you can to "prep the battlefield". Too simple, right.

    Good luck
     
  18. educateme

    educateme Member

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    clarksonarmy,

    Just curious. how often max 200 interview scores do you see? Is it a fair assumption that in order to be on the "scholarship" list during/in the first board of the season, you pretty much have to get the max score (200)?
     
  19. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Our PMS does everything he can to help the applicant get a 200. probably about 1/2 of the interviews garner a 200. Some applicants just don't have the required attributes/activities. Someone who doesn't play a sport for example. No way to help them. I don't think less than a 200 will preclude you from receiving an offer. There are a lot of other variables, like having the right school on your list. Our first winner last year wasn't a 200, and probably wasn't our strongest candidate, but he had a score that was high enough to get him an offer to our school with only three applicants.

    GL
     
  20. educateme

    educateme Member

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    clarksonarmy,

    Again, this is not about my son and his interview is already done. I am asking purely out of curiosity (some aspects of this whole thing has a lot of similarity with what I do professionally, so just curious)....

    How does the Army account for individual differences among the PMSs? Just like some schools with grade inflation and some schools with grade deflation, isn't it the case some PMSs like yours will do everything he can to give the candidates benefit of doubt, while there are sticklers who use a much tougher standard especially for the "subjective parts" of the scores, like impression, appearance, verbal communications, commitment, etc?
     

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