What's happening with Army ROTC?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by DougBetsy, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. DougBetsy

    DougBetsy Member

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    Something appears to be changing, but I haven't seen any official word yet. For example:

    HS class of 2010 received +/- 2,500 four-year scholarships. Prior years were +/- 4,000 scholarships.
    5 scholarship boards last year. Only 3 this year.
    Son's BFF at UDel wants a 3-year scholarship. He learned last week that none will be available for his soph-sr years.

    What's up?
     
  2. Centhea

    Centhea Member

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    Budget issues impacting the entire DoD.
     
  3. commanderajb

    commanderajb PC ROTC

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    The Army is beginning to downsize. Just like in the corporate world, jobs are being replaced with better computers and in some instances robots. With the Army pulling out of Iraq and within the next couple years Afghanistan, there is going to be less of a need for Officers until another conflict arises.

    Along with the above, as Centhea said, with budget issues impacting DoD, funds are being primarily sent to the more technical services such as the Navy and Airforce.
     
  4. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The Army is not downsizing. I'm not sure where you got this beyond your own assumptions and extrapolations of the past.

    In July 2009 Secretary Gates announced a 22,000 troop increase in the size of the Army and a 27,000 person increase in the size of the USMC. This increase was to last for three years, with the Army reaching 562,400 by 2010 and a peak strength of 569,000 in FY2011. The increase will last for at least three years but no more than four. Thereafter, the Army will return to a total endstrengh of 547,000 from the temporary endstrength of 569,000. The increase represents only a 4% strength increase.

    There is no published plan to downsize the Army beyond the normal endstrength of 547,000 except for the retirement of 50 generals or so, and to suggest otherwise based on supposition in absence of fact is irresponsible and unprofessional.
     
  5. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Is it safe to say that Army ROTC is downsizing, or is the reduction of scholarships from 4000 to 2500 indicative of a different issue?
     
  6. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Nope, I don't think so. It's more like the law of supply and demand. For a while the Army couldn't give away a scholarship. The demand was low and the incentive not great enough during the Iraq war. Think 2004-2007 ish.
    There are a significant number of ROTC cadets who are not on scholarship.
    Why should the Army pay for something they can get for free?

    DougBetsy - your son's BFF should consider SMP if no scholarships are available.
     
  7. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Aglages, whats the source for that number?
    I have looked and looked and I can not find nothing but hearsay.
    (All the budget numbers that I can find are unchanged from last year)
     
  8. gojack

    gojack ....

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    I'm sorry - but that is not the way the Army (US Military) works, if the US Congress authorized them to spend XXX million on ROTC scholarships, that money will be spent on ROTC scholarships.
     
  9. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    This quote is basically completely wrong. Perhaps somebody's Army is downsizing but it absolutely is not the US Army. Also: I'm not sure what the source of the numbers quoted below: (4000 vs 2500 scholarships this year) - I haven't seen any published numbers that indicate that the Army ROTC budget was slashed and it doesn't follow that going from 5 boards to 3 boards indicates anything other than a compression of the time line to make the determinations on scholarships awarded. With 5 boards- they had boards meeting before they had published the results of the previous board- 3 boards makes a lot more sense to me- easier to manage.
    Frankly- the Army gave away money for a period of 3 years and almost anyone applying got a scholarship. That was not the norm- so the drop last year in the number of scholarships was just returning to a level more consistent with precedent. Scholarships are a recruiting tool- if they don't have to offer them to get willing participation - then they won't.
    BTW- not having a scholarship DOES NOT mean that you can't get a commission nor does it mean that you can't go on active duty. The AROTC College program will enable you to do both while drawing a stipend your last two years of college.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  10. DougBetsy

    DougBetsy Member

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  11. The OC Josh

    The OC Josh Member

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    I haven't seen actual hard numbers for Class of 2013(just gotten rough numbers from talking to PMSes)

    However, there are hard numbers for the class of 2014. New Cadets were awarded 2,579 four-year scholarships. Note that this doesn't mention 3-AD, and Non-scholarship cadets. Not sure if this includes campus based 4-Year.
    Army.mil Source
     
  12. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    My "source" was a previous post in this thread. I believe that a few others have posted their sources.
     
  13. gojack

    gojack ....

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    That number is for total four-year scholarships only.
    Total number of scholarships year over year has not changed, according to the Army's budget. There may have been some shuffling between 2,3,4 yr and RA, NG, AR., but totals 2010 to 2011 are flat.

    BTW: Can anyone to find a year in the past 20 years where all funds allocated to the Army ROTC program were not spent on ROTC? (I have looked, I can not)

    IMHO: I believe when the Army has more applicants for ROTC they get more selective, and award the budgeted number of scholarships to stronger candidates.
     
  14. Armydude2012

    Armydude2012 LT

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    I have seen that in recent years the amount of scholarships has gone down. When I was going through the process in 2008 there seemed to be a huge amount of 4 year scholarships to present to people. Last year there was a massive shortage and many kids who would have gotten a scholarship during my year subsequently got left out. This year we had many people go SMP because the chances of getting a scholarship are so competitive. Hope this helps.
     
  15. gojack

    gojack ....

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    From the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army Web site
    (Financial Management & Comptroller)

    ARMY RESERVE OFFICER TRAINING CORPS (ROTC)
    Scholarship Program ENROLLMENT

    FY 2009 average MS I ROTC ENROLLMENT 6,956
    FY 2010 average MS I ROTC ENROLLMENT 5,747
    FY 2011 average MS I ROTC ENROLLMENT 5,747 (estimated)

    I am assuming (I know... "a$$-u-and-me") that the Army's Comptroller has a handle on how many students are receiving scholarships. No break-out is not given for RA, AR, NG etc.,

    IMHO: The economic downturn caused many more students to consider the ROTC option.
    More applicants = more competitive to get a scholarship, not less scholarships available.
     
  16. ProudMom

    ProudMom Member

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    Does anyone know if an AFROTC scholarship is as competitive?
     
  17. commanderajb

    commanderajb PC ROTC

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    Downsizing doesn't necessarily mean they are cutting numbers. It could also mean trimming the budget off of specific programs.


    www.whsv.com/virginiaap/headlines/47309897.html

    www.wral.com/news/local/story/126558/
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Or it could mean you have no idea what you're talking about and just made something up in an effort to sound authoritative, only to get called on it because your claim was 100% opposite of the truth.

    Do you even know what a WTU is?
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    ProudMom,

    Overall, AFROTC scholarships are one of the most competitive out there. It is more competitive than AROTC.

    That being said there is a twist to understand how some AROTC cadets could also be in a more competitive situation. The reason why is the AROTC is like NROTC apply to a det, whereas, AFROTC recipients can take their scholarship to any det approved by the AF. If the det is highly desired than the competition can be stiff.

    OBTW, The AFROTC scholarship has always been very competitive, but the fact that they maybe going through a RIF, and they are slowing the pilot pipeline has made it even more competitive.
     
  20. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    A good officership trait, besides the maturity to avoid passing your suppositions off as fact: attention to detail. That second article you posted...dateline June, 1998. Twelve years ago, military downsizing was real and meaningful. Today, the polar opposite is in effect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010

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